Trap detection back to mechanics?

[Madscientist]

At the moment, traps are detected with perception while mechanics influences disarm trap and trap accurency.

 

Now you need a char with very high perception in the party to find all traps. Per of your companions is too low to find all traps so either your main char or a hireling has lots of per or you have to remember the position of all traps ( and lose exp for disarming them). Stepping into a trap causes injuries so you have to rest and eat after each triggered trap.

 

The need for a high per char in your party lowers your freedom of good builds, especially if you try the game solo without reload or you want to rest very little.

 

I think that it makes sense that trap detection and trap disarming are on the same skill and they are not dependent on stats. Maybe the value needed for disarming them is higher then for detecting them.

[Nail]

High perception is a must to find all those secrets

I was always wondering why devs are not doing some secret areas that can be found only with maxed out parameter responsible for discovering hidden things...

That would be so cool.

[Guest]

Step 1: bitch about hidden things being part of Mechanics until they make it governed by Perception.

Step 2: bitch about hidden things being part of Perception after they give in and do what everyone asked them to.

Step 3 (optional): bitch about the devs not implementing more changes based on our feedback.

[draego]

Its also a weird stat to use because unlike mechanics skills perception doesn't progress with level so unless you start with the highest perception you cant expect to find all the traps. (relying on that character to be forced to use an item to increase perception is also dumb). I agree with OP and if you dont make your high perception character the trap person then you have to take two guys with you to explore, one to find and one to disarm/unlock. It just seems needlessly tedious. To me it should be an either or , high perception will find stuff but all high mechanics skill that way if you dont have a trap guy you can still find stuff but the trap guy can do it themselves. Personally i would rather just mechanics like in POE1 but i guess they changed this because some people complained. This change just seems so odd

Edited December 1, 2017 by draego

[Aramintai]

No, I don't want Mechanics back as traps detector, Perception logically suits better by description. You can notice a hidden trap, but to actually disarm it you need to have a knowledge of mechanics.

[OrangePulp]

...do traps even add any real value to gameplay? Other than situations where you can't easily disarm them due to combat, but you don't have to have them be otherwise hidden to accomplish that.

 

That being said, I feel like the change to traps requiring perception is something based on a more... 'realistic' look at things, to the detriment of gameplay. You're still going to focus mechanics on a character in almost all situations (really, in a 5 person party, who wouldn't dedicate someone to that for convenience and loot), so now we have an extra mandatory stat just for exploration sake. More necessary than having high mechanics in pillars 1, I'd say, given how punishing traps are; you used to be able to just soak some of the nastier ones with a high hp tank, but no one wants to take 25% max hp damage.

[Aramintai]

...do traps even add any real value to gameplay? Other than situations where you can't easily disarm them due to combat, but you don't have to have them be otherwise hidden to accomplish that.

 

That being said, I feel like the change to traps requiring perception is something based on a more... 'realistic' look at things, to the detriment of gameplay. You're still going to focus mechanics on a character in almost all situations (really, in a 5 person party, who wouldn't dedicate someone to that for convenience and loot), so now we have an extra mandatory stat just for exploration sake. More necessary than having high mechanics in pillars 1, I'd say, given how punishing traps are; you used to be able to just soak some of the nastier ones with a high hp tank, but no one wants to take 25% max hp damage.

Well, first of all traps are valuable because you can disarm them, gather them and set them up for enemies, or sell them. Traps are fun and keep you on your toes in dungeons, especially if there are enemies nearby.

Second, if you watched last stream traps are gonna be toned down and not all of them gonna take away health, which gonna be 15% instead of 25%.

[Zap Gun For Hire]

At the moment, traps are detected with perception while mechanics influences disarm trap and trap accurency.

 

Now you need a char with very high perception in the party to find all traps. Per of your companions is too low to find all traps so either your main char or a hireling has lots of per or you have to remember the position of all traps ( and lose exp for disarming them). Stepping into a trap causes injuries so you have to rest and eat after each triggered trap.

 

The need for a high per char in your party lowers your freedom of good builds, especially if you try the game solo without reload or you want to rest very little.

 

I think that it makes sense that trap detection and trap disarming are on the same skill and they are not dependent on stats. Maybe the value needed for disarming them is higher then for detecting them.

 

Since we don't have stats of any of the companions yet, I don't know how we could possibly know the bolded bit.  I would also add that Perception boosting items will exist in the game and we don't know how high it can temporarily go with food/items/rewards/scripted interactions.

 

Now needing at least one high perception character in the party might be a bit of a problem.  But perhaps, if feasible, trap detection can work on the same principle as all other skill checks:  A pooled party resource via Party Assist.

 

This doesn't do much about solo builds, but they're supposed to be a challenge anyway (as well as the game not really being balanced around solo play in the first place).

Edited December 1, 2017 by Zap Gun For Hire

[Aramintai]

Now needing at least one high perception character in the party might be a bit of a problem.  But perhaps, if feasible, trap detection can work on the same principle as all other skill checks:  A pooled party resource based on the total perception bonus of the party.

Is party assisted skill checks actually a thing outside scripted interactions and conversations?

[Climhazzard]

I think putting it on perception is a good change, especially since it doesn't just include traps, but also hidden things.  And honestly it'd be hard to convince me that out of 5 characters you couldn't have decent perception on at least one.  All kinds of builds benefit from good perception, for some builds, like CC/debuffers, perception is the king of stats.

[ShakotanSolari]

From a logical viewpoint I like the idea of using perception to detect hidden secrets and traps, but mechanics would also make sense for finding traps. It stands to reason that a character who knows how to create and place traps themselves would also know how to spot them. From a gameplay perspective I think it makes more sense to have everything to do with traps tied to a single skill, as others have mentioned, potentially requiring multiple characters to deal with a single trap, or building a single character to specifically deal with them just becomes tedious. A problem also arises when you consider that a characters perception will only reach a certain maximum throughout the game, this makes it difficult to balance the required perception to detect a trap as the game progresses into higher levels.

I would suggest that a high perception be required to find hidden things as it is now but perception or mechanics could be checked to detect traps. This would still give some incentive to bring a character with high perception for hidden loot but not make it mandatory to survive so long as someone has a high mechanics skill.

[Zap Gun For Hire]

 

Now needing at least one high perception character in the party might be a bit of a problem.  But perhaps, if feasible, trap detection can work on the same principle as all other skill checks:  A pooled party resource based on the total perception bonus of the party.

Is party assisted skill checks actually a thing outside scripted interactions and conversations?

 

 

True enough, I shouldn't have said 'all'.  Still, thematically the idea of a Party Assist (I edited my post) for finding something makes sense.  More eyes to spot something.  Maybe one person just happens to be looking in the right spot at the right time.

[crystalis78]

Thanks for the feedback, everyone!

 

I took a look at the Perception requirements for detecting traps, and they were a bit high. In the next Beta update these will be reduced.

[Madscientist]

Just to make this clear:

I did not suggest to make trap detection easier or even remove traps. I just wanted to know what you think about dealing with traps the same way as PoE1.

 

There were just two things bothering me when I played:

- In my first playthrough I ran into some traps because I did not create a char with very high per. With the current injury mechanic I had to save scum my way through some parts of the dungeon.

- Later I used a char with high per. It felt strange that I need one char to detect traps and another char to disarm them.

[Aramintai]

Hmm, I wonder what companions will have high Perception in POE2. Eder will have an option to multiclass to rogue, ranger aumaua woman will probably have high perception, and that blue orlan pirate also looks like a roguish type, but will they have high enough Perception? It would be better if we could distribute their attributes however we want, especially if we choose to multiclass them, though I'm not sure we'll be allowed.

[Guest]

Just to make this clear:

I did not suggest to make trap detection easier or even remove traps. I just wanted to know what you think about dealing with traps the same way as PoE1.

 

There were just two things bothering me when I played:

- In my first playthrough I ran into some traps because I did not create a char with very high per. With the current injury mechanic I had to save scum my way through some parts of the dungeon.

- Later I used a char with high per. It felt strange that I need one char to detect traps and another char to disarm them.

PoE1 put way too much emphasis on Mechanics. Full stop.

 

I'm sure they will need a couple of tries to get everything ironed out, but I'm very pleased that some of the things that should always have been tied to Perception are now going to be.

[Aramintai]

There were just two things bothering me when I played:

- In my first playthrough I ran into some traps because I did not create a char with very high per. With the current injury mechanic I had to save scum my way through some parts of the dungeon.

As I've mentioned before injuries will be toned down, we'll have a much easier time dealing with them next time.

 

- Later I used a char with high per. It felt strange that I need one char to detect traps and another char to disarm them.

Why not create a char who does both?

Edited December 1, 2017 by Aramintai

[cheesevillain]

 

- Later I used a char with high per. It felt strange that I need one char to detect traps and another char to disarm them.

Why not create a char who does both?

 

 

 

Yeah, it's not like it's unusual for people to play rogues with maxed-out perception and a high mechanics skill.

[Lamppost in Winter]

I think it should stay Per because that makes sense, but Mechanics should give a bonus to detection.

[Guest]

I think it should stay Per because that makes sense, but Mechanics should give a bonus to detection.

I like this.