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Single class in POE2...

 

...LOL.

 

+7 talents against +Double core abilities +Double choice in panel +More Power Source (Yes... count again)

 

VS

 

+Hypothetical OP Spells/abilities At the very end of the game (16-20) +A big advance over time on better spells/abilities.

 

-----------

 

So, the only advantage of single class right now, is the last point. You are "ahead" with "new things". If you have enough options in multiclass to be efficient : it is not sufficient to compensate in single class.

 

Few ideas :

 

* Better empower. WHEN I see Nature godlike with +2 power level, you cannot tell me single class can't have a +2 power level with empower (against 1 now ?). It is logical. One class = more perf in this class at the critical moment.

 

* Special passive/active abilities at the creation for each single classes. A reward to compensate +7 points AP of difference and other core of multiclass.

 

* More empower per encounter OR/AND more empower per rest.

 

ETC ETC.

 

 

And that is different from multi-classes in Infinity Engine games how, exactly ? ;)

 

I, for one, think you guys are much too quick to judge and to discard single classes.

 

This isn't Obsidian's first RPG, you'll see :)

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Could you put the DPS stats of them? hits/crits as well... I am kinda curious :)

 

Here's the summary:

 

ODNCFhd.png

 

 

Note that Berserker has the most damage taken because he was wearing the lightest armor on the team.

 

Watcher was a Devoted/Helwalker.

 

The highest single-target damage does belong to the Devoted/Soulblade, but it's actually closer to 140-150 from an Empowered Soul Annihilation. For some reason, the record sheet didn't pick that one up.

 

A few notes from my game:

 

  • Devoted/Helwalker is really good; about as good as Devoted/Shattered Pillar. It really comes down to whether you prefer a more active or passive play style (Helwalker being the passive option.)
  • Devoted/Soulblade is perfect for taking down priority targets quickly, as Soul Annihilation one-shots most enemies.
  • Shifter/Helwalker is a killing machine. You could make a similar killing machine with Shifter/Shattered Pillar if you preferred a more active play style. Swift Strikes + Spiritshift (Cat) makes you deal a boatload of damage with very short recovery.
  • Devoted/Berserker is a very good combo which I suspect will shine brighter on Path of the Damned due to Carnage. The two classes have a lot of good synergies. In this party, the activation time of Frenzy meant the Devoted/Berserker was always the last one to join the fray so he didn't get as much action (but when he did, he was pretty strong.)
Edited by AndreaColombo

"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke

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Levels 16-20 = 20 % of the duration of the game with -hypothetical- game breaker spells.

 

Except if like POE1 you max your level long before. In this case Single class can enjoy of its particularity a little more.

 

There is also a slight advance to progression. To test... (After all, the beta is to detriment of single class :  low level, little difference)

 

Frankly, I hope they will be more inspired than the spells they produced for the 12-16 of White March... Because I did not -never- use any, I think, from memory. (Perhaps twin arrows L13 and substantial phantom ? No more)

 

No Wall of many colors ?

No Llengrath's warding staff ?

No Major Grimoire Imprint ? (as in, steal three level EIGHT spells from an enemy spellcaster, level EIGHT seven ^^', SPAMMABLE FOR FREE FOR THE WHOLE DURATION).

 

Man, you've missed out on the whole game until you've tried those.

The - whole - game.

Edited by dam

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No Wall of many colors ?

No Llengrath's warding staff ?

No Major Grimoire Imprint ? (as in, steal three level EIGHT spells from an enemy spellcaster, level EIGHT, SPAMMABLE FOR FREE FOR THE WHOLE DURATION).

 

Man, you've missed out on the whole game until you've tried those.

The - whole - game.

 

 

I tried obviously. But there is better spells to inferior level. It is all. So, after that, there is not -superior- valors at these level to use them. Simple.

 

I don't say all was bull****. I say : Spells at level 16-20 MUST be Very very effective to compensate their late arrival.

 

More effective than level 12-16 spells of POE1 in the first game.

 

Because these spells was equivalents or less than certain spells at lower levels.

 

The difference is: spells at level 12-16 has an efficiency in POE1 (I don't say there was totally useless when used). But no ... They must be MORE effective this time !^^ If not Single class keep nothing.

Edited by theBalthazar

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No Wall of many colors ?

No Llengrath's warding staff ?

No Major Grimoire Imprint ? (as in, steal three level EIGHT spells from an enemy spellcaster, level EIGHT, SPAMMABLE FOR FREE FOR THE WHOLE DURATION).

 

Man, you've missed out on the whole game until you've tried those.

The - whole - game.

 

 

I tried obviously. But there is better spells to inferior level. It is all. So, after that, there is not -superior- valors at these level to use them. Simple.

 

I don't say all was bull****. I say : Spells at level 16-20 MUST be Very very effective to compensate their late arrival.

 

More effective than level 12-16 spells of POE1.

 

Because these spells was equivalents or less than certain spells at lower levels.

 

The difference is: spells at level 12-16 has an efficiency in POE1. But no ... They must be MORE effective this time !^^

 

I get your point of view, and I agree that top tier abilities should make enough of a difference that one is willing to sacrifice multiclassing to pick them.

 

 

I just cannot agree with your opinion that top tier spells in POE1 blew though.

 

Major Grimoire Imprint, seriously, gamebreaking.

I cannot think of an example of another ability that has such a strong impact on a fight, except for un-nerfed Petrification which applied a 400% damage taken debuff.

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Foe Target: Steals 3 spells of level 7 or lower for 60.0 sec

 

 

 

In this case, if I C.C. all the ennemies = useless (for me obviously).

 

----

 

All the question turn arround : With spells level... hum... 8-16 for POE2, multiclass will it have similar situation than POE1 ? If yes, single class dead. If no, wait and see.

 

There is also an argument : The number of spells. Tendancy to have less spells by line at advanced levels.

 

1st level of spells for priest POE1 : 10 spells.

8th level of spells for priest : 3 spells.

 

So... in POE2...9th-10th : 2 spells ?...

 

I don't know obviously but you understand the concept. I will watch it closely, I'm interested ... ^^

Edited by theBalthazar

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The new penetration system is making rooting pain a lot stronger than it was in the first PoE.  Also it's basically amazing with shattered pillar.  Rooting pain proccing off doing damage means you can control where it hits and interrupts enemies better, it's probably the best way in the game atm to lock down casters, especially since the upgrade to Torment's reach stuns your target and if it hits it causes more rooting pain procs.

 

Just pure shattered pillar is actually an awesome build right now (though you have to go to level 9 to get the most of it and level 7 is more realistic playing the beta normally), if only you didn't have to cast dire blessing every fight to prevent torment's reach from missing.  I'm sure it'll be great with multi class possibilities as well, but that's a little out of reach in the beta.

Edited by Climhazzard
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Well... It nearly doubles your amount of spells per encounter. That is pretty useful.

If they were a bit ~50% faster :)

Maybe some passive talents to make so idk...

 

 

 
 
1. Dexterity and +action speed apply to *both* casting time and recovery time. So it's like a double time bonus. Your Mercenary Fighter starts with 2 +50% action speed potions, and there are probably more items like that (maybe even a grimoire with +casting speed). 
 
2. Debilitating/CC and offensive spells can be cast outside of combat, particularly if your party is stealthed. Combat doesn't start until the spell hits. So you get a free first spell (in terms of casting time). And once your enemies are debuffed and CC'd, provided you have high Int, that gives you time to cast your next spell. 
 
3. Priests Seal spells can be cast without initiating combat and without leaving stealth. So Priests (or Priest multiclass) with high enough Int get two free first spells. You can even get the spell back before combat starts, so it really is a free spell.
 
Edit: Same goes for Conjuror's Wall of Flame. However, sometimes they seem to fizzle out when cast out of combat... they're not visible but they end up affecting enemies who step into them.
 
4. There are some fast cast spells. Some Wizard spells are only in grimoires, like Arcane Assault (0.5 casting time, level 1). 
 
Nukers/DD:
- Wizards have a bunch of level 1 and level 2 fast casts (0.5 seconds),
and level 4 Dimensional Shift (shockwave)
- Druids have level 2 Burst of Summer Flames and Taste of the Hunt
 
Healing/Con:
- Priests (Restore, Suppress Affliction, Withdraw... though these all have high recovery times) and Paladins (lay on hands, auras)
- Druids have level 1 ally AoE +5 Con, not a huge heal but improves fortitude;
and a level 3 spell ally AoE which adds 4 armor and heals 10/second
 
Buffs:
- lots of wizard spells, including Fleet Feet and Alacrity (sadly alacrity just gives the same +dex bonus as fleet feet and that doesn't stack)
- ciphers have level 4 pain block and level 5 tactical meld
 
Some spells aren't extremely quick but have 0 recovery (Kakaloth's Minor Blights, Minor Grimoire Imprint).
 
5. A lot of good spells are 3 second casts. 
 
6. According to the tooltip, Evoker has a 30% chance of Evocation spells having their damage and effects repeated. (From my limited testing this doesn't seem to include Evocation scrolls.) 
 
7. Druid Cat form's special ability grants +33% action speed, which includes spellcasting. So Druids and Wizards with maxxed dex (+27%) can self-buff to significantly reduce spellcasting time without even multiclassing Monk/Barb or using potions/items.
Edited by SaruNi

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I just did a single class Nature Godlike Livegiver and I have to say I'm very impressed and see that my worries about the new health system have been confirmed:

 

- Cast Nature's Vigor in order to trigger Wellspring of Life (Nature's Vigor is a fast cast, leads to +2 Power Level.)

- shift into cat form to gain Living Surge and use Cat's Flurry for faster casts. This will give you +5 Power Level for Rejuvenation spells.

- Lifegiver's automatic ability gives all Rejuvenation spell +2 Power Level

- you are now at +9 Power Level for Rejuvenation spells in a matter of seconds (everything was fast cast)

- now you cast Nature's Balm (get +4 armor and healing per tick with +9 Power Level)

- cast The Moon's Light with +9 Power Level

 

You and your party can't die for about one minute. If you have a priest in the party he can cast a spell which gives you oancentration and then you have all the time in the world to cast offensive spells/summons/whatever. You don't need to leave the healing are if you use ranged attacks or spells. Slow caster-only party which doesn't have to move is fun and totally possible. You can even give everybody CON 3 and RES 3.

If you have a Beckoner he can summon 6 Sekeletons which will also heal.

It's crazy - and this is only lvl 6.

 

By the way the healing of Nature's Balm and The Moon's Light don't suppress each other. Later you can get Moonwell (didn't level up yet) and I guess it gets even crazier...

 

You can also multiclass with a priest but sice Restoration spells don't profit from Lifegiver's stuff I found it wa more benefical to concentrate on a higher power level and gaining the good spells faster. But the priest can heal after shifting runs out because then you'll have -5 power level for Rejuvenation but no penalties for Restoration spells while you can still profut from Wellspring of Life. I'd use this multiclass when fights take a lot longer (PotD maybe). But honestly I think it's just better to take a single class priest with you instead.

 

Now add a Beckoner with Ancient Memory... ;)

Edited by Boeroer
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Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

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That's a fun test eh.

 

I would like to point out you're forgetting that some afflictions either reduce healing by 50%, or negate it completely, now, though.

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That's a fun test eh.

 

I would like to point out you're forgetting that some afflictions either reduce healing by 50%, or negate it completely, now, though.

 

 

With inspirations you just need to plan ahead to counter something like that, probably wouldn't be to hard.  Guess I underestimated the healing druid if it can do all that.

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I just did a single class Nature Godlike Livegiver and I have to say I'm very impressed and see that my worries about the new health system have been confirmed:

 

- Cast Nature's Vigor in order to trigger Wellspring of Life (Nature's Vigor is a fast cast, leads to +2 Power Level.)

- shift into cat form to gain Living Surge and use Cat's Flurry for faster casts. This will give you +5 Power Level for Rejuvenation spells.

- Lifegiver's automatic ability gives all Rejuvenation spell +2 Power Level

- you are now at +9 Power Level for Rejuvenation spells in a matter of seconds (everything was fast cast)

- now you cast Nature's Balm (get +4 armor and healing per tick with +9 Power Level)

- cast The Moon's Light with +9 Power Level

 

You and your party can't die for about one minute. If you have a priest in the party he can cast a spell which gives you oancentration and then you have all the time in the world to cast offensive spells/summons/whatever. You don't need to leave the healing are if you use ranged attacks or spells. Slow caster-only party which doesn't have to move is fun and totally possible. You can even give everybody CON 3 and RES 3.

If you have a Beckoner he can summon 6 Sekeletons which will also heal.

It's crazy - and this is only lvl 6.

 

By the way the healing of Nature's Balm and The Moon's Light don't suppress each other. Later you can get Moonwell (didn't level up yet) and I guess it gets even crazier...

 

You can also multiclass with a priest but sice Restoration spells don't profit from Lifegiver's stuff I found it wa more benefical to concentrate on a higher power level and gaining the good spells faster. But the priest can heal after shifting runs out because then you'll have -5 power level for Rejuvenation but no penalties for Restoration spells while you can still profut from Wellspring of Life. I'd use this multiclass when fights take a lot longer (PotD maybe). But honestly I think it's just better to take a single class priest with you instead.

 

Now add a Beckoner with Ancient Memory... ;)

Whatever happened to attacking with melee characters and having a wizard throw some magic around the battlefield?I have read that 3 times now and it still makes no sense so I think many people will play POE2 with no real idea of what is actually happening.Good or bad is the question I now ponder?!

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Can't understand why I don't see any indication when I use Empower, it's like nothing happened, only +1 to power source.

 

Also I thought Wellspring of Life is a passive, just adding +2 to power level :)

 

I evaluate myself as pretty experienced gamer, but overall it's not so clear for me, hopefully there will be some explanation and more friendly information tooltips for new players.


Done this with Moon Godlike Wizard

q22yrpP.png

Perebor steam

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Can't understand why I don't see any indication when I use Empower, it's like nothing happened, only +1 to power source.

 

Also I thought Wellspring of Life is a passive, just adding +2 to power level :)

 

I evaluate myself as pretty experienced gamer, but overall it's not so clear for me, hopefully there will be some explanation and more friendly information tooltips for new players.

 

 

Personally I've just been using empower with the rest bonus that causes it to graze so if I really need an effect it won't miss, otherwise I can't see what difference a small boost in powerlevel is really going to do.

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Can't understand why I don't see any indication when I use Empower, it's like nothing happened, only +1 to power source.

 

Also I thought Wellspring of Life is a passive, just adding +2 to power level :)

 

I evaluate myself as pretty experienced gamer, but overall it's not so clear for me, hopefully there will be some explanation and more friendly information tooltips for new players.

 

 

Personally I've just been using empower with the rest bonus that causes it to graze so if I really need an effect it won't miss, otherwise I can't see what difference a small boost in powerlevel is really going to do.

 

 

 

I don't know about you guys, but personally, I feel like Empower is more of a gimmick which was put in place so not every ability is per-encounter.

 

Some kind of safeguard or fallback you have available should things go massively tlts up.

 

 

Edit: idk, censorship decided a male anatomical part was inappropriate, for no clear reason.

Edited by dam

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I tried again with all non-casters except the Livegiver and it's a lot more powerful than having casters only. Reason is that rangers/fighters and so on shred things a lot faster than pure AoE casters can. Even when they have enough time now to cast things they are just very bad compared to classes that deal weapon damage. I presume a pack of helwalkers would be cool - because they can gain wounds and MIG bonuses by taking damage - which is healed all the time...

 

The healing makes it easy to go full offense. It's still benefical to have one dedicated damage sponge who unstealths and absorbs the first wave of attacks so that you can cast your fast healing sequence unhindered. A large shield with that modal might help a lot - and after healing is "on" switch to a more offensive setup. Afflictions like Sickened and Weakened can easily be countered with an inspiration.

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Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

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What gameplay option you've uncovered is bound to get boring and tedious very quickly though.

 

 

It's like playing a sorcerer in NWN2, you'd have to re-buff every time you rested, which quickly became a terrible chore.

Eagle's splendor, check

Ghostly visage, check

Stoneskin, check..

[...]

[...]

Permanent Haste, check

Major Cheeseburger Banishment, check...

 

 

Booooring...

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I tried again with all non-casters except the Livegiver and it's a lot more powerful than having casters only. Reason is that rangers/fighters and so on shred things a lot faster than pure AoE casters can. Even when they have enough time now to cast things they are just very bad compared to classes that deal weapon damage. I presume a pack of helwalkers would be cool - because they can gain wounds and MIG bonuses by taking damage - which is healed all the time...

 

The healing makes it easy to go full offense. It's still benefical to have one dedicated damage sponge who unstealths and absorbs the first wave of attacks so that you can cast your fast healing sequence unhindered. A large shield with that modal might help a lot - and after healing is "on" switch to a more offensive setup. Afflictions like Sickened and Weakened can easily be countered with an inspiration.

 

 

Hadn't considered using a large shield as a stand your ground option...  if you're going to have a buffing phase it'd definitely be better than just turning the AI off.

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Modal large shield and a pistol :)


Done this with Moon Godlike Wizard

q22yrpP.png

Perebor steam

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After looking at all the races I determined pretty quickly that Nature Godlike would be the all-around best solo race (not counting helmets that we don't know about yet) since the pretty significant nerfs to Moon and Fire Godlike from PoE 1, and Boerer's Lifegiver build seems like one of the strongest uses of Wellspring of Life. Imo the strongest class to solo the game with (not counting bugs) would definitely seem to be a Helwalker/Lifegiver. The Helwalker passive ensures you will be doing an absolutely massive amount of healing (probably more than enough to mitigate the increased damage you'll take) even factoring in the power levels you lose from multiclassing; Swift Strikes means you will never run out of Wellspring of Life.

 

For this solo build I would probably run Stag form and stack that with the two Constitution passive buffs to try and completely neutralize your only real weakness (healing debuffs), but really I think any form would work, although if Cat power stacks with Swift Strikes good lord... But yeah I will likely test this build and see what I get, but on paper it sounds absolutely insane.

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Modal large shield and modal dagger is actually what I use. :)

 

Booooring...

Then please don't use it. I don't want you to die from boredom. ;)

 

Anyway - this is suppoesd to show how the health system is a bit broken or at least exploitable.

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Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

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I wouldn’t say it’s broken. You used a very specific combination of abilities from a single-classed character to maximize its potential—that it worked is your reward for intelligent gameplay within what the rules allow ;)

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"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke

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Yeah... but you know what I mean: In PoE1 this would also be very good, but you couldn't do it all the time without resting because a) your healing spells wouln't be per encounter and more importantly b) your health pool would suffer a lot.

 

Now in Deadfire it is like a godmode cheat for nearly one minute without any consequences. You can do this forever without resting. Maybe if you step into a trap... but that's another story. ;)


Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

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Yeah... but you know what I mean: In PoE1 this would also be very good, but you couldn't do it all the time without resting because a) your healing spells wouln't be per encounter and more importantly b) your health pool would suffer a lot.

 

Now in Deadfire it is like a godmode cheat for nearly one minute without any consequences. You can do this forever without resting. Maybe if you step into a trap... but that's another story. ;)

 

That is assuming you're not getting dispelled or suppressed !

 

I seem to remember a spell or ability that can temporarily disable buffs on enemies.

 

I would think it to be an absolute direct counter to your bunkering-up strategy ;)

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