Anybody feels like this is a console game instead of a pc game?

[Archaven]

Yeah the game doesn't seem powerful and state of the art like you'd see on a PC these days, seems to be dumbed down so it can be ported to console, but who knows.

 

Baldursgate series had options for characters, but if you go more towards NWN/NWN2 those were much more bespoke systems for character design. You could just do more, and create many more interesting builds. PoEII  seems to not have as many options.

 

Like spells are nothing more then abilities.  Thats my main pet peeve. Finding and buying good spells, and managing your spell book, and having a wizard class/school all was part of the fun in dungeons and dragons. it seems to be missing completely from Pillars of Eternity franchise which detracts away from much of the nostalgia and fun.

 

This is exactly my thoughts too. Spells are just like abilities and whole game looks like watercolor. The art direction are kinda "cartoony" instead of how it looks like in PoE1

[Katarack21]

I liked having it provide accuracy and having the ability to pick it with any character at every level; it let me fluidly move between weapon types as-needed with different characters, and let me pick up an accuracy bonus on only occasionally-used weapons for other weapon sets, allowing me to keep multiple weapon sets on-hand and switch back and forth as-needed to face DR resistances.

In PoE 2 I'm having *much* more of a problem with penetration than I did with DR in PoE in part because that ability to easily adjust my weapon capabilities, with every character at every level, is no longer present. With DR in PoE I was capable of intuitively and fluidly switching weapons as-needed, on the fly, without to much worry. I may just be screwing up real hard, but I can't seem to get a hold of that capability here.

[Archaven]

The weapon proficiencies are now gated behind specific levels or classes, as far as I know. I don't think there's a way in this game for any class to pick any weapon proficiency at any level, unlike in PoE 1. As far as I can tell you're much more solidly locked in to weapon choice.

 

I'm not exactly the first person to say that all the classes in this beta seem very limited and have few options. It's literally exactly like I said; you get this skill tree that leads to this specific set of possible builds and that's it. All the choices you want--as long as it's these choices.

 

PoE 1 had class ability trees, but it also had a *lot* of options that weren't limited to your class tree. This game has *only* your class tree. That's it. It feels very much like the developers are strictly controlling what you can do and how you can do it by designating what each class can do within a very limited frame work. Then multiclassing is applied on top of that limited framework; it expands it by giving you an additional framework to work with, but you're still limited within the framework for each class that's been laid out for you to work in.

 

You can't really customize your character beyond the specific deal that they've worked out for what that character type can do. A fighter has this set of things--those are *ALL* a fighter will be able to do. Nobody is ever going to be playing a fighter that is different from the four or five types of fighters that can be built through that tree. Subclasses alter the way those fighters play to some extent, but those are dictated by the developers not created by you--it's top-down control, not user-generated customization.

 

The whole system feels much more centrally planned and orchestrated, and much less up to player choice.

 

+1. Exactly my thoughts and i couldn't express myself much better than you.

[Breckmoney]

I liked having it provide accuracy and having the ability to pick it with any character at every level; it let me fluidly move between weapon types as-needed with different characters, and let me pick up an accuracy bonus on only occasionally-used weapons for other weapon sets, allowing me to keep multiple weapon sets on-hand and switch back and forth as-needed to face DR resistances.

 

In PoE 2 I'm having *much* more of a problem with penetration than I did with DR in PoE in part because that ability to easily adjust my weapon capabilities, with every character at every level, is no longer present. With DR in PoE I was capable of intuitively and fluidly switching weapons as-needed, on the fly, without to much worry. I may just be screwing up real hard, but I can't seem to get a hold of that capability here.

I mean a good portion of this seems to be related more to numbers than the system. Pillars 1 was a game with months of beta testing followed by more than a year of constant balance updates. Meanwhile this is the second day of beta testing for Pillars 2. Numbers are going to be tweaked time and again going forward into something that works better.

[Katarack21]

 

I liked having it provide accuracy and having the ability to pick it with any character at every level; it let me fluidly move between weapon types as-needed with different characters, and let me pick up an accuracy bonus on only occasionally-used weapons for other weapon sets, allowing me to keep multiple weapon sets on-hand and switch back and forth as-needed to face DR resistances.

 

In PoE 2 I'm having *much* more of a problem with penetration than I did with DR in PoE in part because that ability to easily adjust my weapon capabilities, with every character at every level, is no longer present. With DR in PoE I was capable of intuitively and fluidly switching weapons as-needed, on the fly, without to much worry. I may just be screwing up real hard, but I can't seem to get a hold of that capability here.

I mean a good portion of this seems to be related more to numbers than the system. Pillars 1 was a game with months of beta testing followed by more than a year of constant balance updates. Meanwhile this is the second day of beta testing for Pillars 2. Numbers are going to be tweaked time and again going forward into something that works better.

 

Yeah, but isn't that a reason that I should be making statements about what I think works and what I think doesn't and why?

[Breckmoney]

 

 

I liked having it provide accuracy and having the ability to pick it with any character at every level; it let me fluidly move between weapon types as-needed with different characters, and let me pick up an accuracy bonus on only occasionally-used weapons for other weapon sets, allowing me to keep multiple weapon sets on-hand and switch back and forth as-needed to face DR resistances.

 

In PoE 2 I'm having *much* more of a problem with penetration than I did with DR in PoE in part because that ability to easily adjust my weapon capabilities, with every character at every level, is no longer present. With DR in PoE I was capable of intuitively and fluidly switching weapons as-needed, on the fly, without to much worry. I may just be screwing up real hard, but I can't seem to get a hold of that capability here.

I mean a good portion of this seems to be related more to numbers than the system. Pillars 1 was a game with months of beta testing followed by more than a year of constant balance updates. Meanwhile this is the second day of beta testing for Pillars 2. Numbers are going to be tweaked time and again going forward into something that works better.

Yeah, but isn't that a reason that I should be making statements about what I think works and what I think doesn't and why?

Oh yeah of course. Everyone should post their feedback. I guess I was responding to the pretty ridiculous thread title as much as anything.

[morhilane]

The weapon proficiencies are now gated behind specific levels or classes, as far as I know. I don't think there's a way in this game for any class to pick any weapon proficiency at any level, unlike in PoE 1. As far as I can tell you're much more solidly locked in to weapon choice.

You couldn't pick Weapon Focus at every levels in POE1 either.

 

You can pick any of the 31 weapon proficiency at level 1 (two of them actually) and get a total of 3 at level 6...3 is how many talent you could have in POE1 at level 6 (level 2, 4 and 6) and those were a mix of class and general. In POE2, that's all general. The only "locked" thing is that each weapon has its own modal which only really affect if you want a defensive or offensive build. You can use any weapons in POE2, you just don't have the modal without the weapon proficiency. Accuracy is only increased via weapon enchantment, buff, perception value and character level (minus Barbarian).

 

The class trees are pretty much POE1 class trees if you displayed the class features the same way it is done in POE2 (minus Priest/Wizard). I don't get how people can complain it is more limiting here. Some of POE2 classes actually have new features and it is way easier to build a passive Fighter/Barbarian/Cipher/Druid/Chanter/Paladin/Monk/Rogue than in POE1. Some classes clearly need more work, but it has nothing to do with the system itself and how the information is displayed.

 

If people are crying about "it's more limited and consoly" because they can't stack accuracy and +%damage multipliers I'm going to have to wonder if they understand what build variety actually means and if they really played a console RPG in their life (they are full of generic +%damage).

[Katarack21]

There's a hell of a lot more universal talents available in PoE 1 than just proficiencies, Scions, and Savage Attack, man. I wonder if you've ever bothered to look into character builds that aren't just optimized for specific gameplay roles and actually built a character just for fun, or because you feel like it, or around a character story or theme.

And I for one don't think it's any more "consoley", although it is clearly much more streamlined and narrowly focused within each class.

[morhilane]

There's a hell of a lot more universal talents available in PoE 1 than just proficiencies, Scions, and Savage Attack, man. I wonder if you've ever bothered to look into character builds that aren't just optimized for specific gameplay roles and actually built a character just for fun, or because you feel like it, or around a character story or theme.

 

And I for one don't think it's any more "consoley", although it is clearly much more streamlined and narrowly focused within each class.

Scion was a +damage multiplier (+DR increase) it was removed for balance reason along all the others because the devs considered there was too much +damage multipliers in POE1 (and the +DR is op with the new penetration/DR system).

 

Savage Attack is the Greatsword weapon proficiency modal (renamed to Rending Slash).

 

If you are talking about building characters based on theme you can still do that. It's not like the classes or race changed that much. You can make a better fire themed Priest now (Priest of Eothas or Magran) and that saying a lot because the Priest is the most limited of all the classes right now.

[Katarack21]

 

There's a hell of a lot more universal talents available in PoE 1 than just proficiencies, Scions, and Savage Attack, man. I wonder if you've ever bothered to look into character builds that aren't just optimized for specific gameplay roles and actually built a character just for fun, or because you feel like it, or around a character story or theme.

 

And I for one don't think it's any more "consoley", although it is clearly much more streamlined and narrowly focused within each class.

Scion was a +damage multiplier (+DR increase) it was removed for balance reason along all the others because the devs considered there was too much +damage multipliers in POE1 (and the +DR is op with the new penetration/DR system).

Yeah, I know, and I'm saying there was more to the universal talents than +% damage ****, like Scion. There were literally pages of identical talents shared by all classes that you could freely choose from as you wished, without prerequisites or requirements, to customize your character. You are talking about +percent damage like that's the only thing one could be missing from PoE 1 universal talents, which is just not the reality.

[draego]

Savage Attack is the Greatsword weapon proficiency modal (renamed to Rending Slash).

 

I dont think this is a plus for your argument. So one weapon can get this instead of a universal talent. however you are right there are some universal stuff with the weapon proficiencies but its still a more constrained system than POE1. Maybe they could have allowed players to pick which models they wanted for which weapons

Edited November 17, 2017 by draego

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

short answer: no

 

long answer: if by "feels like a console game" you mean "simplified", hell no

 

The game is, if anything, much more complex than before and more importantly game knowledge feels more important. I could blunder my way through PoE without really understanding the mechanics at all,, I'm already having to work to figure out how some things in PoE II work because they matter in a way similar mechanics didn't matter in the first game (example: armor penetration was ignorable at casual difficulties in the original game, is absolutely not now).

Edited November 17, 2017 by Dr. Hieronymous Alloy

[morhilane]

 

 

There's a hell of a lot more universal talents available in PoE 1 than just proficiencies, Scions, and Savage Attack, man. I wonder if you've ever bothered to look into character builds that aren't just optimized for specific gameplay roles and actually built a character just for fun, or because you feel like it, or around a character story or theme.

 

And I for one don't think it's any more "consoley", although it is clearly much more streamlined and narrowly focused within each class.

Scion was a +damage multiplier (+DR increase) it was removed for balance reason along all the others because the devs considered there was too much +damage multipliers in POE1 (and the +DR is op with the new penetration/DR system).

 

Yeah, I know, and I'm saying there was more to the universal talents than +% damage ****, like Scion. There were literally pages of identical talents shared by all classes that you could freely choose from as you wished, without prerequisites or requirements, to customize your character. You are talking about +percent damage like that's the only thing one could be missing from PoE 1 universal talents, which is just not the reality.

 

Off those 46 general talents (not counting cross-class because we got multiclassing), only 16 are gone from POE2. Out that, 3 are out for mechanic change reasons and 14 for balance reasons.

 

22 are spread out among the classes (it's not 1 for 1 for all of them, some of them are present in more than one class).

 

8 appear in one shape or the other among weapon proficiency and we got 22 new one for a total of 30 modals (rapier and estoc currently have the same modal).

Edited November 17, 2017 by morhilane

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

The weapon proficiencies are now gated behind specific levels or classes, as far as I know. I don't think there's a way in this game for any class to pick any weapon proficiency at any level, unlike in PoE 1. As far as I can tell you're much more solidly locked in to weapon choice.

 

 

 

 

Without getting into the rest of your post, this doesn't seem to be the case in the backer beta. Every class just gets some weapon proficiencies and you can pick as you will, there don't seem to be any  particular class/level restrictions. Warriors can use wands at whatever level they get to pick a weapon proficiency and wizards can pick greatsword proficiency.

 

Plus the main thing a proficiency does is just unlock a modal, you don't *need* it. 

[Ganrich]

 

The weapon proficiencies are now gated behind specific levels or classes, as far as I know. I don't think there's a way in this game for any class to pick any weapon proficiency at any level, unlike in PoE 1. As far as I can tell you're much more solidly locked in to weapon choice.

 

 

 

 

Without getting into the rest of your post, this doesn't seem to be the case in the backer beta. Every class just gets some weapon proficiencies and you can pick as you will, there don't seem to be any  particular class/level restrictions. Warriors can use wands at whatever level they get to pick a weapon proficiency and wizards can pick greatsword proficiency.

 

Plus the main thing a proficiency does is just unlock a modal, you don't *need* it. 

 

 

I think they meant Weapon Focus, but I could be wrong.  

 

I think these proficiency modals will allow for some neat builds.  Small Shields gives a modal that when you're missed by an enemy melee you gain accuracy on the next attack (at the cost of recovery).  A Shattered Pillar/Bleak Walker would use this well.  Build wounds through melee, use Monk abilities as the wounds build, and when the enemy misses your next Flames of Devotion gets bonus accuracy.  You could use a Warhammer with this too.  That modal increases Pen at the expense of Recovery.  This is in theory.  I haven't tried it yet. 

 

A similar idea could be used with the Shattered Pillar/Soul Blade.  Or you could swap Shattered Pillar for Devout, or some other melee class. 

 

I haven't looked too deeply into them, and some seem a bit too similar.  However, I am looking for neat combos like this right now.

[Katarack21]

 

The weapon proficiencies are now gated behind specific levels or classes, as far as I know. I don't think there's a way in this game for any class to pick any weapon proficiency at any level, unlike in PoE 1. As far as I can tell you're much more solidly locked in to weapon choice.

 

 

 

 

Without getting into the rest of your post, this doesn't seem to be the case in the backer beta. Every class just gets some weapon proficiencies and you can pick as you will, there don't seem to be any  particular class/level restrictions. Warriors can use wands at whatever level they get to pick a weapon proficiency and wizards can pick greatsword proficiency.

 

Plus the main thing a proficiency does is just unlock a modal, you don't *need* it. 

 

You get two weapon proficiencies at creation and two more at level 5. Weapon proficiencies are gated behind levels; you can't pick weapon proficiency: mace on your rogue at level three because you happened to find a good weapon and want to try it out, and don't want to suck with it. I mean, you *can*, but you're much more advised to stick with the weapons you chose already and have modals for; using a different weapon (at least until level five, when you get to pick a second one) means you lose out on capabilities and you can't just throw it in there on a random level-up because you feel like it.

 

In PoE you get a talent every two levels and you can make those weapon proficiencies as often as you feel like; I mean, it's not a great idea to take weapon proficiencies seven times, but you always have the option of expanding your usable weapon list *if you feel the need to*. In this game...not so much. The bonus you get for weapon proficiency is different--modal instead of accuracy--but the fact is it locks you into it by virtue of making it more difficult to expand the list of weapons you have a bonus with.

[Flouride]

Yeah the game doesn't seem powerful and state of the art like you'd see on a PC these days, seems to be dumbed down so it can be ported to console, but who knows.

 

Baldursgate series had options for characters, but if you go more towards NWN/NWN2 those were much more bespoke systems for character design. You could just do more, and create many more interesting builds. PoEII  seems to not have as many options.

 

Like spells are nothing more then abilities.  Thats my main pet peeve. Finding and buying good spells, and managing your spell book, and having a wizard class/school all was part of the fun in dungeons and dragons. it seems to be missing completely from Pillars of Eternity franchise which detracts away from much of the nostalgia and fun.

 

They are in alpha stage. Certainly you don't expect the graphics to be 100% ready at this point? Not to mention the current gen consoles are good enough to run pretty much any PC game without having to kill the graphics.

 

Did you play Pillars 1? You had to find those rare spells in that game as well. I hardly doubt the Archmages are willing to give all of their tricks in this game either. Wizard schools was in my opinion a pointless thing in D&D.

[PrimeJunta]

Nah. It's streamlined, in some cases in a good way, in other cases in a bad way (I've detailed my views on that elsewhere) but there isn't a whiff of consolitis about it AFAICT.

[FreeKaner]

I am fairly certain this is a mainly sound design issue. The UI, the gameworld or the controls don't have any console design issues in them however sound design has a bit of a hint of modern action game design, in fact I thought it sounded to Dragon Age: Inquisition even in trailer. The sound design is not bad however, it just gives that action game vibe.