WIZARDS - feedback at first sight

[Skaddix]

I think the poster just means not being able to pick your grimoire spells so your stuck switching between mutiple ones if you dont get lucky and have the spells you want in one book.

 

As far as I can tell Cipher, Priest and Wizards were deemed to strong and got absolutely battered by restricted spell list, spell casting times and pen. I don't add Druids cause they have built in melee effectiveness. 

[Heijoushin]

This enforced grimoire switching sounds like a pain in the arse, something that's going to be really fiddly and essentially crowbar inventory management into combat. Limiting the wizard to two spells per spell level is enough of a restriction, maybe even a bit excessive. What is the point of this further grimoire limitation? What problem are Obsidian trying to solve?

 

I think they just wanted grimoire switching to be a thing. Much like they came up with the Black Jacket fighter to encourage people to switch weapons. Personally, I'm not feeling the new system either. If they wanted people to switch spell books so badly, they should just have added unique bonuses. 

 

Examples:

Grimoire of Flames: +2 damage when casting a fire spell.

Grimoire of Conjuration: Allows an extra conjuration spell per level.

etc.

 

Isn't that much easier? Wouldn't that make it more exciting to loot a wizard's corpse?

Glad they're working on the pen, but I hope they'll also take another look at the wizard spell system. 

[KingDiamond]

Class balance and per fight spell might not go well together.  Spells have to be weak if you can cast lot of them. Strong spell mean very few cast. Can they find an fun balance?  They could leave spellcasters cast as much spell as in PoE 1 and as many spell per fight but then no more class balance.

[morhilane]

 

This enforced grimoire switching sounds like a pain in the arse, something that's going to be really fiddly and essentially crowbar inventory management into combat. Limiting the wizard to two spells per spell level is enough of a restriction, maybe even a bit excessive. What is the point of this further grimoire limitation? What problem are Obsidian trying to solve?

 

I think they just wanted grimoire switching to be a thing. Much like they came up with the Black Jacket fighter to encourage people to switch weapons. Personally, I'm not feeling the new system either. If they wanted people to switch spell books so badly, they should just have added unique bonuses. 

 

Examples:

Grimoire of Flames: +2 damage when casting a fire spell.

Grimoire of Conjuration: Allows an extra conjuration spell per level.

etc.

 

Isn't that much easier? Wouldn't that make it more exciting to loot a wizard's corpse?

Glad they're working on the pen, but I hope they'll also take another look at the wizard spell system.

 

Grimoire are supposed to have bonuses, in fact, every classes are supposed to get something to put in their trinket slot. It's just not in the beta (it's an alpha really).

[KDubya]

You can roll up a Devoted/Wizard (no subclass) and stick with the summoned weapons and self buffs. Heck you can just take one spell at creation and take every Fighter talent that you want and just use the spells in the Grimoires that you find.

 

If Fighters aren't your thing you can go with a Cipher for the big damage buff from Soul Whip, a Shattered Pillar Monk using staffs, lots of possibilities.

 

If you really distill it down you can get by with Concelhatts staff, Arcane Veil, Liengraths Displaced Image, Citzals Lance and Martial power. Plenty of picks left to take every good Fighter ability as many are not so great. Compared to a straight up Fighter your self buffer is going to have a much higher deflection for tanking. Remember that you also get to use all the spells in all the grimoires you find without wasting a pick on them. A little luck or some meta gaming knowledge and you get the best of all possible worlds at the cost of the highest level spells.

 

The summoned weapons only take 6 seconds less Dexterity bonus. Hit Arcane Veil first as an instant cast and then safely spend 6 seconds casting. When melee speed gets fixed they'll have a base 3 second recovery instead of the one second they have now.

[Silvaren]

Some passive talents could solve problems of the wizards. Wizards in Eora are similar to wizards from D&D settings. They pursue knowledge, train magic as apprentices by practicing arcane arts. Wizards are the skilled and trained ones among all casters, just like fighters are disciplined soldiers among warriors. The point is - they could have equivalent of fighter's Steady Aim talent but for magic.

 

I would go further in comparing wizards to fighters. Give them equivalent of stances. 3 stances with particular bonuses wizards could switch between as fighters do. Like Arcane Piercing (bonus PEN), Arcane Quickness (quicker casting) and the third one for bigger damage from spell or interputting strikes while using implements.

 

I don't like how grimoires works right now. I don't like that spells are missing grazes as result of attack roll. I think that narrow choice of spell is good for subclasses but pure wizard knows too few spells and has no interesting abilities to help him switch grimoires depending on situation.

 

Overall, while I like control wizards the most I had quite good fun with Evoker this time. WIth Destructive Channeling and random 30% chance to repeat attak roll I was able to oneshot-instakill one of quasibosses (the named one left from the stairs at second level of Poko Kohara) using empowered 4th level Minoletta's Missiles. But still I had too many "no pen" and misses during lots of fights. Casting time of spells is too long so I often lose spell because there is no reason to use it when it's at finish of casting or in case of change of situation I need to use something different - but the unfinished spell is lost because there is no way to cancel it and save it for later.

[cheesevillain]

We're getting a general talent tree. I think some of the passives will affect spellcasting.

[dam]

Wizards in Eora are similar to wizards from D&D settings. They pursue knowledge, train magic as apprentices by practicing arcane arts. Wizards are the skilled and trained ones among all casters,

 

Is that your personal feeling of what an Eoran wizard is (or should be), or is that canon ?

 

'cause I do not seem to find any lore explicitly stating that wizards are "the skilled and trained ones among all casters".

 

 

 

Wizardry in RPGs is, generally, the ability to evoke effects (with or without resorting to implements and/or magical reagents) (arcane casting) as opposed to being allowed to cast this or that spell because of one's devotion to this or that deity (divine casting) or because of one's heritage (demonic abilities, draconic abilities).

 

Nothing in there entails that the wizard (or divine caster) be particularly good at his craft, or underwent special training (or training at all).

 

 

 

You make it seem as if wizards are the elite of the arcane casters, for which I can find no canonical reference.

 

 

The wiki page for wizards, Description section, states they are "students of arcane [...] often forming academies or guilds".

It goes on to say (background section) they are "of high education and extreme mental discipline".

 

The page specifically states that wizard academies and guilds are "devoted to research and development in magical studies".

There is not one thing in there supporting your claim/assumption that wizards are the elite of arcane casters, having undergone this or that rigorous training.

 

 

One may very well conceive of a wizard as a somewhat recluse, somewhat close-minded researcher and pursuer of esoteric knowledge, who's had no field and combat experience whatsoever.

One may as well conceive of another wizard being brought up and trained specifically as a battle-mage.

[theBalthazar]

If he puts talents, I wonder where they will put them because there is almost no room at the panel level at the right.

Edited November 23, 2017 by theBalthazar

[dam]

If he puts talents, I wonder where they will put them because there is almost no room at the panel level at the right.

 

One cannot let UI issues get in the way of balance and game design.

 

Hell, you want a quick fix ?

 

 

See that levelup panel where you pick your skills ?

See how there are 2 icons to switch tabs when you're a multiclass ?

Good, add a 3rd icon for General talents.

 

 

Here you go, UI issue sorted, now let's get them general talents

 

 

Edit:

Or mayhap you were talking about class-specific talents that are not actual spells ?

Same stuff, add an icon \o/

Edited November 23, 2017 by dam

[Silvaren]

 

Wizards in Eora are similar to wizards from D&D settings. They pursue knowledge, train magic as apprentices by practicing arcane arts. Wizards are the skilled and trained ones among all casters,

Is that your personal feeling of what an Eoran wizard is (or should be), or is that canon ?

 

'cause I do not seem to find any lore explicitly stating that wizards are "the skilled and trained ones among all casters".

 

 

 

Wizardry in RPGs is, generally, the ability to evoke effects (with or without resorting to implements and/or magical reagents) (arcane casting) as opposed to being allowed to cast this or that spell because of one's devotion to this or that deity (divine casting) or because of one's heritage (demonic abilities, draconic abilities).

 

Nothing in there entails that the wizard (or divine caster) be particularly good at his craft, or underwent special training (or training at all).

 

 

 

You make it seem as if wizards are the elite of the arcane casters, for which I can find no canonical reference.

 

 

The wiki page for wizards, Description section, states they are "students of arcane [...] often forming academies or guilds".

It goes on to say (background section) they are "of high education and extreme mental discipline".

 

The page specifically states that wizard academies and guilds are "devoted to research and development in magical studies".

There is not one thing in there supporting your claim/assumption that wizards are the elite of arcane casters, having undergone this or that rigorous training.

 

 

One may very well conceive of a wizard as a somewhat recluse, somewhat close-minded researcher and pursuer of esoteric knowledge, who's had no field and combat experience whatsoever.

One may as well conceive of another wizard being brought up and trained specifically as a battle-mage.

True but I'm assuming that wizards have arcane powers because of lots of training and learning magic, which is probably hard and long path. It seems different than ciphers, druids or pirests, who (I guess) gain their power in more in-born/granted/gifted/natural way than hard work. That's why I compare wizards to fighters as those who learn their skill by both theoretic and practice way more as profession, ocupation (like scholars, soldiers). They are made, not born.

 

But I pointed all this just for one purpose - at least Wizards should have ability to graze with spells just like fighters do with their attacks, thanks to, steady aim.

Edited November 23, 2017 by Silvaren

[dam]

 

 

Wizards in Eora are similar to wizards from D&D settings. They pursue knowledge, train magic as apprentices by practicing arcane arts. Wizards are the skilled and trained ones among all casters,

Is that your personal feeling of what an Eoran wizard is (or should be), or is that canon ?

 

'cause I do not seem to find any lore explicitly stating that wizards are "the skilled and trained ones among all casters".

 

 

 

Wizardry in RPGs is, generally, the ability to evoke effects (with or without resorting to implements and/or magical reagents) (arcane casting) as opposed to being allowed to cast this or that spell because of one's devotion to this or that deity (divine casting) or because of one's heritage (demonic abilities, draconic abilities).

 

Nothing in there entails that the wizard (or divine caster) be particularly good at his craft, or underwent special training (or training at all).

 

 

 

You make it seem as if wizards are the elite of the arcane casters, for which I can find no canonical reference.

 

 

The wiki page for wizards, Description section, states they are "students of arcane [...] often forming academies or guilds".

It goes on to say (background section) they are "of high education and extreme mental discipline".

 

The page specifically states that wizard academies and guilds are "devoted to research and development in magical studies".

There is not one thing in there supporting your claim/assumption that wizards are the elite of arcane casters, having undergone this or that rigorous training.

 

 

One may very well conceive of a wizard as a somewhat recluse, somewhat close-minded researcher and pursuer of esoteric knowledge, who's had no field and combat experience whatsoever.

One may as well conceive of another wizard being brought up and trained specifically as a battle-mage.

True but I'm assuming that wizards have arcane powers because of lots of training and learning magic, which is probably hard and long path. It seems different than ciphers, druids or pirests, who (I guess) gain their power in more in-born/granted/gifted/natural way than hard work. That's why I compare wizards to fighters as those who learn their skill by both theoretic and practice way more as profession, ocupation (like scholars, soldiers). They are made, not born.

 

But I pointed all this just for one purpose - at least Wizards should have ability to graze with spells just like fighters do with their attacks, thanks to, steady aim.

 

 

Similarly, one may argue that only those that are born with an affinity for the esoteric might become wizards eventually, with enough nurturing

 

 

 

With regards to the ability to graze, we are in agreement here, with the following reserve :

The ability to graze was removed for a reason (slow down combat a bit, I think it was).

Reintroducing it as a talent is tantamount to never having removed it to begin with, because everyone is going to pick said talent.

Every - single - one.

 

 

Edit: verbs are hard...

Edited November 23, 2017 by dam

[morhilane]

We're getting a general talent tree. I think some of the passives will affect spellcasting.

It's not a general talent tree we are getting. They are not adding in new talents either. They are just taking some of the basic passives spread among the martial classes and putting them into the (weapon) proficiency pool which will change to allow you to pick a weapon proficiency or one of those talent at the current progression of weapon proficiency.

 

There is no basic spellcasting passives spread anywhere to share.

[ghostwriter]

The spellcasting boosts have been moved to grimoire passive abilities.

[dam]

 

We're getting a general talent tree. I think some of the passives will affect spellcasting.

It's not a general talent tree we are getting. They are not adding in new talents either. They are just taking some of the basic passives spread among the martial classes and putting them into the (weapon) proficiency pool which will change to allow you to pick a weapon proficiency or one of those talent at the current progression of weapon proficiency.

 

There is no basic spellcasting passives spread anywhere to share.

 

 

I have corrected my initial post, since then, to clarify for class-specific talents

[tinysalamander]

 

 

Wizards in Eora are similar to wizards from D&D settings. They pursue knowledge, train magic as apprentices by practicing arcane arts. Wizards are the skilled and trained ones among all casters,

Is that your personal feeling of what an Eoran wizard is (or should be), or is that canon ?

 

'cause I do not seem to find any lore explicitly stating that wizards are "the skilled and trained ones among all casters".

 

 

 

Wizardry in RPGs is, generally, the ability to evoke effects (with or without resorting to implements and/or magical reagents) (arcane casting) as opposed to being allowed to cast this or that spell because of one's devotion to this or that deity (divine casting) or because of one's heritage (demonic abilities, draconic abilities).

 

Nothing in there entails that the wizard (or divine caster) be particularly good at his craft, or underwent special training (or training at all).

 

 

 

You make it seem as if wizards are the elite of the arcane casters, for which I can find no canonical reference.

 

 

The wiki page for wizards, Description section, states they are "students of arcane [...] often forming academies or guilds".

It goes on to say (background section) they are "of high education and extreme mental discipline".

 

The page specifically states that wizard academies and guilds are "devoted to research and development in magical studies".

There is not one thing in there supporting your claim/assumption that wizards are the elite of arcane casters, having undergone this or that rigorous training.

 

 

One may very well conceive of a wizard as a somewhat recluse, somewhat close-minded researcher and pursuer of esoteric knowledge, who's had no field and combat experience whatsoever.

One may as well conceive of another wizard being brought up and trained specifically as a battle-mage.

True but I'm assuming that wizards have arcane powers because of lots of training and learning magic, which is probably hard and long path. It seems different than ciphers, druids or pirests, who (I guess) gain their power in more in-born/granted/gifted/natural way than hard work.

 

Gods don’t grant spellcasting on Eora. Priests “get” their power from the strength of their belief in something (not necessarily in his god himself). Whether that something approves of it or even exists doesn’t matter, AFAIR.