Terror attack in Barcelona

[Volourn]

My believe in the bible is irrelevant here. People read the bible and believe in god. They claim he is a good  being who loves everyone including children yet in the very book that praises him  he is mass murdering children so how can people worship a god that  so coldly murders his children and it is simply accepted a spart of 'mysterious plan?

 

It is one of the (many) reasons why I'm not religious.

[teknoman2]

With talk like this, I really don't get why there is so much tension between the Islamic and Western world. We are building strong bridges with a foundation of understanding here.

as i said: i don't judge people, i'm just stating facts about what the doctrine of islam is and while i have no way to verify their authenticity, there are a bunch of data suggesting that the majority of muslims are convinced that following the quran to the letter is the best way of life and all should embrace it.

bridges can be built but considering how vastly different western and islamic cultures are, doing it requires a vast amount of mutual concessions... so many in fact that one or the other will quite possibly lose its identity.

[HoonDing]

"Yeah those scumbag children.  They deserve death for 'breaking the commandments'. LMAO"

 

Kill them all. God will know his own.

[Malcador]

as i said: i don't judge people,

 

Uh huh.

[teknoman2]

 

as i said: i don't judge people,

 

Uh huh.

 

well, i judge Muhammad for making the brainwashing machine called islam but what may seem as a generalization on the people who follow that faith, is more of a comment on what that faith demands of them and how these demands force on those who come to the west a choice between compliance with their faith and casting off part of their faith for integration into a society that rejects most of what their faith asks/permits. 

[Ben No.3]

 

 

as i said: i don't judge people,

 

Uh huh.

 

well, i judge Muhammad for making the brainwashing machine called islam but what may seem as a generalization on the people who follow that faith, is more of a comment on what that faith demands of them and how these demands force on those who come to the west a choice between compliance with their faith and casting off part of their faith for integration into a society that rejects most of what their faith asks/permits. 

 

ISIS acts exactly like Muhammad did, 1300 years ago. Which makes Muhammad a both progressive and pragmatic leader of his time.

[teknoman2]

well, a brief summary of islam would be "live like the prophet did". the problem is that many (ISIS being the best example) take that extremely literally. 

[Ben No.3]

well, a brief summary of islam would be "live like the prophet did". the problem is that many (ISIS being the best example) take that extremely literally. 

Then again, a prophet is merely a messenger of a gof, and which religion is not "like god told us to"?

[teknoman2]

in most religions "god told us to do X" is purposefully left abstract so they can shape it depending on the situation.

jesus said "love your neigbor" but he never said anything about the guys in the next town. it's left up to interpretation whether they are neighbors or not.

islam on the other hand is very precise and detailed

love your fellow muslim but not the infidel. if you meet infidels do the following

1. try to convert them of their own will

2. force them to convert by enslaving them

3. if conquest is not possible, settle in their lands and outbreed them

4. if all else fails, just start killing them until they submit and convert or are exterminated.

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

as i said: i don't judge people,

 

Uh huh.

 

well, i judge Muhammad for making the brainwashing machine called islam but what may seem as a generalization on the people who follow that faith, is more of a comment on what that faith demands of them and how these demands force on those who come to the west a choice between compliance with their faith and casting off part of their faith for integration into a society that rejects most of what their faith asks/permits. 

 

ISIS acts exactly like Muhammad did, 1300 years ago. Which makes Muhammad a both progressive and pragmatic leader of his time.

 

ISIS is not in any way progressive or pragmatic? They are an aberration of the Islamic scripture, they are utterly brutal and anachronistic. Their interpretation of Islam has no place in the year 2017 and the only way to address these concerns is to annihilate them. The good news about most ISIS fighters is there belief in martyrdom means they generally fight to the death which means its much easier to address the ISIS residual impact from countries where they are active in 

 

I must be  misunderstanding you about saying "ISIS is progressive  group" 

[injurai]

I thought he was exactly pointing out how it's a progressive movement only relative to it's time, hence inherently anachronistic. But because it's tied to the will of the creator, it's interpreted as an ever enduring progressive movement by it's believers.

[BruceVC]

I thought he was exactly pointing out how it's a progressive movement only relative to it's time, hence inherently anachronistic. But because it's tied to the will of the creator, it's interpreted as an ever enduring progressive movement by it's believers.

Okay I see what you mean, you could be right

 

Except the ideology of ISIS is clear on certain things and what they believe. They dont consider themselves progressive in any way, they see themselves as a group who is actually following the Koran in its true, literal definition

 

But the reality is they are selective about they believe about the Koran. All their atrocities they commit they justify in this way

 

But the core belief of ISIS is strict adherence to there religious view of Islam...the idea of a progressive objective is irrelevant to them

[teknoman2]

 

 

 

 

as i said: i don't judge people,

 

Uh huh.

 

well, i judge Muhammad for making the brainwashing machine called islam but what may seem as a generalization on the people who follow that faith, is more of a comment on what that faith demands of them and how these demands force on those who come to the west a choice between compliance with their faith and casting off part of their faith for integration into a society that rejects most of what their faith asks/permits. 

 

ISIS acts exactly like Muhammad did, 1300 years ago. Which makes Muhammad a both progressive and pragmatic leader of his time.

 

ISIS is not in any way progressive or pragmatic? They are an aberration of the Islamic scripture, they are utterly brutal and anachronistic. Their interpretation of Islam has no place in the year 2017 and the only way to address these concerns is to annihilate them. The good news about most ISIS fighters is there belief in martyrdom means they generally fight to the death which means its much easier to address the ISIS residual impact from countries where they are active in 

 

I must be  misunderstanding you about saying "ISIS is progressive  group" 

 

ISIS does not interpret anything, it follows the quran word for word as it was meant to be followed when written in the 7th century.

others may use interpretations to diminish the anachronisms of islam, ISIS just rolls with the vanilla version.

this form of extremism will just keep happening until somebody scraps the old version and makes a remake and convinces people that the remake is to be followed as the original.

Edited August 27, 2017 by teknoman2

[Ben No.3]

 

 

 

 

as i said: i don't judge people,

Uh huh.

well, i judge Muhammad for making the brainwashing machine called islam but what may seem as a generalization on the people who follow that faith, is more of a comment on what that faith demands of them and how these demands force on those who come to the west a choice between compliance with their faith and casting off part of their faith for integration into a society that rejects most of what their faith asks/permits.

ISIS acts exactly like Muhammad did, 1300 years ago. Which makes Muhammad a both progressive and pragmatic leader of his time.

ISIS is not in any way progressive or pragmatic? They are an aberration of the Islamic scripture, they are utterly brutal and anachronistic. Their interpretation of Islam has no place in the year 2017 and the only way to address these concerns is to annihilate them. The good news about most ISIS fighters is there belief in martyrdom means they generally fight to the death which means its much easier to address the ISIS residual impact from countries where they are active in

 

I must be misunderstanding you about saying "ISIS is progressive group"

"Which makes Muhammad a [progressive] leader OF HIS TIME"

 

His time was 1300 years ago though.

[teknoman2]

 

 

 

 

 

as i said: i don't judge people,

Uh huh.

well, i judge Muhammad for making the brainwashing machine called islam but what may seem as a generalization on the people who follow that faith, is more of a comment on what that faith demands of them and how these demands force on those who come to the west a choice between compliance with their faith and casting off part of their faith for integration into a society that rejects most of what their faith asks/permits.

ISIS acts exactly like Muhammad did, 1300 years ago. Which makes Muhammad a both progressive and pragmatic leader of his time.

ISIS is not in any way progressive or pragmatic? They are an aberration of the Islamic scripture, they are utterly brutal and anachronistic. Their interpretation of Islam has no place in the year 2017 and the only way to address these concerns is to annihilate them. The good news about most ISIS fighters is there belief in martyrdom means they generally fight to the death which means its much easier to address the ISIS residual impact from countries where they are active in

 

I must be misunderstanding you about saying "ISIS is progressive group"

"Which makes Muhammad a [progressive] leader OF HIS TIME"

 

His time was 1300 years ago though.

 

in a certain way though, he was progressive!

other religions used only the most primal means of control and manipulation of the faithful: fear of god. but fear works only as long as ignorance is the norm.

Muhammad used a pretty well thought out array of psychological tricks that messed with the minds of the followers in much deeper level than simple fear. he absolved faithful of all responsibility for any action they committed as long as it was against infidels and freedom without responsibility breeds evil as demonstrated by modern psychologists. he used tricks similar to what Hittler later used to weed out dissidents. he used mass psychology of the kind that governments and corporations use today to turn what was considered morally and/or legally reprehensible to the new, universally accepted normality; and more. under that point of view, he was many centuries ahead of his time

[Hurlshort]

Teknoman, are you a student of Islamic studies? You just seems to have a lot of information on the subject and seem pretty confident about its accuracy. I would certainly not consider myself an expert in this stuff.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Have you read the Koran?

[Hurlshort]

Have you read the Koran?

 

Was that for Teknoman? I haven't. I have an English copy and I've read some parts of it, but it's pretty thick. Of course, I wouldn't claim to have read the bible, either. I grew up reading passages out of it and have probably covered all of the NT at some point or another, but I've never really sat down and studied it from page to page as an adult. I've read a fair share of religious history books, but I'd never call myself an expert on theology. A hobbyist at best.

 

That's why I was curious about Teknoman's education on the matter. 

[Ben No.3]

Have you read the Koran?

partially, though only briefly Edited August 28, 2017 by Ben No.3

[Wrath of Dagon]

 

Have you read the Koran?

 

Was that for Teknoman? I haven't. I have an English copy and I've read some parts of it, but it's pretty thick. Of course, I wouldn't claim to have read the bible, either. I grew up reading passages out of it and have probably covered all of the NT at some point or another, but I've never really sat down and studied it from page to page as an adult. I've read a fair share of religious history books, but I'd never call myself an expert on theology. A hobbyist at best.

 

That's why I was curious about Teknoman's education on the matter.

 

No, that was for you. I thought you teach comparative religions or something like that, so I thought you might have read it.

[Chilloutman]

noone died, again, no side stories, nothing

[Hurlshort]

We really just cover the basics of religions in 7th grade, and it is focused more on history and regular practices than any in depth analysis. At the end of the day, my expertise is education, not religious studies.

[teknoman2]

Teknoman, are you a student of Islamic studies? You just seems to have a lot of information on the subject and seem pretty confident about its accuracy. I would certainly not consider myself an expert in this stuff.

as i said, my grandfather lived for years in the middle east when he was young and he read it because it was necessary for living without getting into trouble due to ignorance. he still has a copy written in arabic and most of what i know is from my discussions with him on the subject. 

some of what i say is what my grandfather said to me about islam and some are educated guesses based on what i know.

fact 1: islam teaches that there is no free will, allah decides everything so your actions are by his will (the description of it is more extensive and detailed with exceptions and examples but that's the general rule)

fact 2: studies show that taking any action without feeling the pressure of having to take responsibility for it, removes most if not all inhibitions.

deduction: Muhammad had an understanding of human psychology and how to use it to manipulate the minds of his followers.

[Ben No.3]

 

Teknoman, are you a student of Islamic studies? You just seems to have a lot of information on the subject and seem pretty confident about its accuracy. I would certainly not consider myself an expert in this stuff.

as i said, my grandfather lived for years in the middle east when he was young and he read it because it was necessary for living without getting into trouble due to ignorance. he still has a copy written in arabic and most of what i know is from my discussions with him on the subject.

some of what i say is what my grandfather said to me about islam and some are educated guesses based on what i know.

fact 1: islam teaches that there is no free will, allah decides everything so your actions are by his will (the description of it is more extensive and detailed with exceptions and examples but that's the general rule)

fact 2: studies show that taking any action without feeling the pressure of having to take responsibility for it, removes most if not all inhibitions.

deduction: Muhammad had an understanding of human psychology and how to use it to manipulate the minds of his followers.

The Quran wasn't written by Muhammad though.

[injurai]

 

 

Teknoman, are you a student of Islamic studies? You just seems to have a lot of information on the subject and seem pretty confident about its accuracy. I would certainly not consider myself an expert in this stuff.

as i said, my grandfather lived for years in the middle east when he was young and he read it because it was necessary for living without getting into trouble due to ignorance. he still has a copy written in arabic and most of what i know is from my discussions with him on the subject.

some of what i say is what my grandfather said to me about islam and some are educated guesses based on what i know.

fact 1: islam teaches that there is no free will, allah decides everything so your actions are by his will (the description of it is more extensive and detailed with exceptions and examples but that's the general rule)

fact 2: studies show that taking any action without feeling the pressure of having to take responsibility for it, removes most if not all inhibitions.

deduction: Muhammad had an understanding of human psychology and how to use it to manipulate the minds of his followers.

The Quran wasn't written by Muhammad though.

 

 

It was written by Allah if you go by the Quran. It was lived and spoken(written) by Muhammad and scribed by his followers if you go by history. Initially the accounts were committed to memory through the oral traditions of the region. After Muhammad's death the Quran was compiled fully in written form by his followers and peer reviewed by the umma. They didn't have paper, so the Quran was first scribed on bone, stone, wood, and hide. Eventually contact with China introduced paper. The hadith additionally contain an isnad which is a lineage of transmission through reputable scholars for means of authentication.