Multi-classing - hopes, dreams, wild speculation

[Boeroer]

A ranged monk with The Long Pain was very powerful in PoE (why? See "Witch Doctor" build in the PoE class build subforum where it's explained in detail). If this works in Deadfire only a bit like in PoE then Shattered Pillar + The Long Pain will be superbadass. Maybe even better with a rogue or cipher multiclass, since Long Pain had very high base damage and thus profits a lot from high dmg bonuses like Sneak Attack/Soul Whip++ and crits.

As a shattered pillar/cipher with Long Pain you might get total resource overflow, spamming powers and abilities left and right.

Edited November 1, 2017 by Boeroer

[CENIC]

So it sounds like companions will not have free multiclassing - they will have classes or multiclass combos selected for them that you can choose from.

 

I'm pretty bummed

[Terminator]

I have a question:

Often a paladin is considered as kind of fighter/cleric mix. At least I heared this in DnD.

Do you think you could create a fighter/priest that is more powerful (tough as a fighter and buffs/debuffs/healing of a priest) than a pure paladin?

Since all abilities will be per encounter, priest will lose the disadvantage that they have to rest to refill their spells.

Well I have never liked the system in Pillars of Eternity 1 really not my choice of Dungeon Dragons rules not for a long shot. They are not Dungeons Dragon's rules and if so based on 4th edition which is the worst released version of Dungeons Dragons Rules.

 

That said I did not buy any expansions (get more exp get easier) and did finish Pillars of Eternity 1 on second hardest challenge level in  year 2017 when AI was smarter and I had to try then end fight more then 10 times to win but I did win.

 

Paladins have class specific abilities.

 

If you think of traditional old school multiclassing and not on some new powerbuilds here then Fighter/Mage if not for else then to use Plate Armor with a Mage etc. sounds better to me.

 

Good question remains if you really want to multiclass a Cleric then with what class?

Edited January 21, 2018 by Terminator

[Terminator]

So it sounds like companions will not have free multiclassing - they will have classes or multiclass combos selected for them that you can choose from.

 

I'm pretty bummed

This makes only sense. It is to much powergaming already on this forums. I applaude   this choice. Of course they don't want a group of only multiclass characters.

 

Live with it and then maybe multiclass your main character as much as you want.

 

I wonder what I will create I usually like to play Ranger or Cleric if thinking of single class but in this environment likely multiclassing my main character... well you must also like your character. In World of Warcraft I liked that my Druid could shapeshift for faster movement.

Edited January 21, 2018 by Terminator

[Boeroer]

Companions can be multiclassed. It's just the choice of classes that's limited and that is because the combos have to fit the writing and personality of the character. Wizard/Druid or Wizard/Cipher just wouldn't fit Aloth and so his choices are limited. It has nothing to do with anti-powergaming or anti-multiclass or whatever.

[Terminator]

Companions can be multiclassed. It's just the choice of classes that's limited and that is because the combos have to fit the writing and personality of the character. Wizard/Druid or Wizard/Cipher just wouldn't fit Aloth and so his choices are limited. It has nothing to do with anti-powergaming or anti-multiclass or whatever.Ok

Ok thanks for the clarification. As I suspected.

[blotter]

Companions can be multiclassed. It's just the choice of classes that's limited and that is because the combos have to fit the writing and personality of the character. Wizard/Druid or Wizard/Cipher just wouldn't fit Aloth and so his choices are limited. It has nothing to do with anti-powergaming or anti-multiclass or whatever.

Based on Sawyer's response, it has nothing to do with ensuring that the only multiclassing options for characters are those which 'make sense' for them (as if there were only one or two possibilities for each companion that could fit that bill). The only reason cited for the change was technical challenges in designing the UI and progression for the initial selection.

Edited January 21, 2018 by blotter

[theBalthazar]

It is a good choice.

 

If you want total choice, go with a full custom.

 

Companions is more RP side. So this is logical to limit the WTF side.

[Terminator]

 

Companions can be multiclassed. It's just the choice of classes that's limited and that is because the combos have to fit the writing and personality of the character. Wizard/Druid or Wizard/Cipher just wouldn't fit Aloth and so his choices are limited. It has nothing to do with anti-powergaming or anti-multiclass or whatever.

Based on Sawyer's response, it has nothing to do with ensuring that the only multiclassing options for characters are those which 'make sense' for them (as if there were only one or two possibilities for each companion that could fit that bill). The only reason cited for the change was technical challenges in designing the UI and progression for the initial selection.

 

Ok I am fine with that and I stand my point to much multiclass allowing would anyway be over the top powergaming.

 

In pen and paper I would be considered powergamer. However I don't rush out and copy a  superbuild here instead I prefer to do my own build and I am not GURU with POE1 or POE2 as I would be Dungeons Dragons 3.5 edition.

[blotter]

Ok I am fine with that and I stand my point to much multiclass allowing would anyway be over the top powergaming.

In what way? If this is in regards to multiclassing being obviously superior to single-classing, that's something that'll have to be balanced to some extent whether or not the companions can fully benefit from the disparity. If this is about players being able to make build choices for companions based on mechanical advantages rather than roleplaying concerns, then restricting multiclassing won't stop this either; we'll still have free range in choosing abilities, skills, and equipment, which can all similarly have implications as to what sort of people the companions are, and these choices can also conflict with the developers' vision for them. And then there are the things that we'll be able to make them do behavior-wise, which will have the potential contradict companion personalities even more dramatically.

 

 

Take the sacrificial soulbound dagger from the beta for an example of equipment selection and player-ordered behavior undermining companion characterization. Tell me that binding that dagger to Pallegina and then having her slit not only the throats of villagers but also, eventually, another companion to unlock its powers isn't way more out of character for her than multiclassing her as a druid or whatever. Same goes for feeding her human flesh while camping for a Strength boost, getting her deliriously high on whatever drugs make her a better asset for a given fight, or clothing her in Hylea's sacred vestments despite her clear disdain for the gods in general and perhaps Hylea in particular.

 

 

Technical limitations on multiclass restrictions are hard to argue with and while I'd like to see more flexibility, I think that there are probably other places that the resources would be better spent than tinkering around here.

 

But as a method to preserve the integrity of the developers' characterizations of the companions, multiclass restrictions are just a flimsy half-measure unless the developers are willing to commit to this policy in many other ways as well.

[JerekKruger]

My only real objection to limitations on companion multiclassing is that there is at least one, in character, multiclass that I want to do that is probably not going to be available i.e. I'd love to make Eder a Fighter/Priest of Eothas. If he goes the Night Market route in Pillars then this is very fitting for his story, but it looks like he'll be restricted to Fighter/Rogue currently.

[Terminator]

I don't care one bit if multiclassing companions is not available much as it should be for balance reasons.

 

 

I tested Pillars of Eternity. Sigh I need to remind me of this system which is different sigh from Dungeons Dragons 3.5 and the worst 4th edition is most close to it.

 

 

Fighter taking one level is beneficial to get that Endurance regeneration.

 

Here is my experience with Pillars of Eternity my level 2 Ranger get slaughtered by a wolf pack guarding a corpse up. The one with one BIG Wolf not only young wolves.

 

I tested to create a Fighter took Pale Elves race since they get elemental fire and cold resistance so no benefits vs wolves from the race.

 

My Fighter level 2 not that it was very easy still slaughtered that Wolf Pack on Hard Challenge level which my Ranger level 2 failed with.

Edited January 22, 2018 by Terminator

[wanderon]

Just a few ideas off the top of my head;

 

1) The Napalmdin: Darcozzi Paladin/Unbroken Fighter Crusader

 

Frontline tank, strides up to the enemy and uses Unbroken's bonus Engagements to take on as many as she can, and then procs FoD and Fires of Darcozzi Palace. Fight her directly? Every time you touch her, you BURN. Try to get around her? Unbroken's bonus to Disengagement plus Overbearing Guard means she knocks you Prone, and pulls you right back Into The Fray anyway. And that's why she's the Napalmdin; she sticks to you like glue, and you BURN, BURN, BURN.

 

2) The Gunslinger: Island Aumaua Sharpshooter Ranger/Black Jacket Fighter Hunter

 

Your standard Arms Bearer/Quick Switch Island Aumaua gun Ranger, now enhanced by the Black Jacket's reduced Recovery upon weapon switching, and bonus weapon proficiency means he can use a wider variety of firearms in his arsenal. Plus no Constant Recovery is no big deal; he's staying in the back and blasting targets in the face anyway.

 

3) The One Man Army: Berserker Barbarian/Streetfighter Rogue Marauder

 

Your standard OSA/Vengeful Defeat/HoF Bombarian, now even deadlier when Flanked or Bloodied. A fire-and-forget WMD you send first into the enemy ranks and trust to do his job, letting you save your focus for micro-ing the backline. Despite the name, he works best with teammates providing buffs and CC, but either way he's the only melee DPS you're ever going to need.

 

4) The Batman Wizard: Conjurer Wizard/Trickster Rogue Spellblade

 

Get around the Conjurer's ban on Illusion spells, with the Trickster's access to them! A weaker Sneak Attack is no big deal; she's there to cast spells, not to stab someone. That just leaves Evocation, but who cares about those when you have the right tool for every situation?

 

5) The Weather Witch: Priestess of Eothas/Fury Druid Universalist

 

Mild-mannered staff chick at first glance, but you won't like her when she's angry. Because when she does, that means Minor Avatar + Relentless Storm + Storm Blight Spiritshift. And with the Eothas Priestess's access to extra Druid Elemental spells, plus the Fury's bonus with same, she can call down the thunder all day long. Hope you don't have anything valuable in the general vicinity.

 

Tried this yesterday thinking the same thing - but the Trcksters illusion spells are disabled (apparently by the conjurers ban) 

[CottonWolf]

 

Just a few ideas off the top of my head;

 

1) The Napalmdin: Darcozzi Paladin/Unbroken Fighter Crusader

 

Frontline tank, strides up to the enemy and uses Unbroken's bonus Engagements to take on as many as she can, and then procs FoD and Fires of Darcozzi Palace. Fight her directly? Every time you touch her, you BURN. Try to get around her? Unbroken's bonus to Disengagement plus Overbearing Guard means she knocks you Prone, and pulls you right back Into The Fray anyway. And that's why she's the Napalmdin; she sticks to you like glue, and you BURN, BURN, BURN.

 

2) The Gunslinger: Island Aumaua Sharpshooter Ranger/Black Jacket Fighter Hunter

 

Your standard Arms Bearer/Quick Switch Island Aumaua gun Ranger, now enhanced by the Black Jacket's reduced Recovery upon weapon switching, and bonus weapon proficiency means he can use a wider variety of firearms in his arsenal. Plus no Constant Recovery is no big deal; he's staying in the back and blasting targets in the face anyway.

 

3) The One Man Army: Berserker Barbarian/Streetfighter Rogue Marauder

 

Your standard OSA/Vengeful Defeat/HoF Bombarian, now even deadlier when Flanked or Bloodied. A fire-and-forget WMD you send first into the enemy ranks and trust to do his job, letting you save your focus for micro-ing the backline. Despite the name, he works best with teammates providing buffs and CC, but either way he's the only melee DPS you're ever going to need.

 

4) The Batman Wizard: Conjurer Wizard/Trickster Rogue Spellblade

 

Get around the Conjurer's ban on Illusion spells, with the Trickster's access to them! A weaker Sneak Attack is no big deal; she's there to cast spells, not to stab someone. That just leaves Evocation, but who cares about those when you have the right tool for every situation?

 

5) The Weather Witch: Priestess of Eothas/Fury Druid Universalist

 

Mild-mannered staff chick at first glance, but you won't like her when she's angry. Because when she does, that means Minor Avatar + Relentless Storm + Storm Blight Spiritshift. And with the Eothas Priestess's access to extra Druid Elemental spells, plus the Fury's bonus with same, she can call down the thunder all day long. Hope you don't have anything valuable in the general vicinity.

 

Tried this yesterday thinking the same thing - but the Trcksters illusion spells are disabled (apparently by the conjurers ban) 

 

 

I think that's a bug? Try posting it in the backer beta bugs forum.

[rothamon81]

Well, anyone found a good way to multiclass with a wizard? And I mean for the spellcasting aspect, not the conventional damage one. It seems anyway you do it you lose more than you get. There are so many synergies for conventional damage classes that you'd be stupid not to multiclass, but alas nothing for a classic old mage.

[theBalthazar]

I hope a new class in extension (like White march part I and II but for Pillars 2)