Terror attack in Manchester...

[Ben No.3]

Translation: If only police had some warnings...

 

https://i1.jbzdy.pl/contents/2017/05/95271f35554c13d1d8567875fd159a03.jpg[/img

 

"Believe me, the problem IS Islam!"

"Believe me, the problem IS Christianity!"

Edited May 25, 2017 by Ben No.3

[Gfted1]

Agreed. Religion should be wiped from the face of the Earth. What a blight on humanity.

[Malcador]

Agreed. Religion should be wiped from the face of the Earth. What a blight on humanity.

But then we lose those days off work. I think it's worth the price keeping it.

Edited May 25, 2017 by Malcador

[Gfted1]

What, Christmas? Thats no loss, we'll just rename it Festivus!

[Malcador]

You know the way it works, they'll just take it away We'll lose Easter holidays as well, and other countries will lose their days off. I still maintain we should get every religious holiday as long as there's more than 999 members of the religion in your country

[Gfted1]

I used to get 30 paid days / year while in the military (that could be rolled over) but just now counting it up I only get 28 paid days off this year from my company (and they are "use it or lose it").

[Darkpriest]

 

80s and 90s were so much better... domestic terrorism in EUR never targeted civs on purpose and was rather limited.

You called?

 

 

If i recall correctly it was not intentional - someone screwed up either on the telephone caller or police with their reaction time to the warning time. While they placed the bomb, agreed, not the best method of fighting for own "freedom" their intent target were not the civilians, that's why they made the calls where the bomb is.

 

Compare bombings done by IRA or ETA to the "modern" wave of terror and you will notice large differences in methods and targets (on top of what those movements were fighting for and still are to some degree)

[Oerwinde]

 

Edit: Oh yeah, about that "second generation immigrant" http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/05/24/manchester-bomber-salman-abedis-father-was-part-al-qaeda-linked-group-ex-libyan-official-says.html

 

The family that slays together stays together.

Seems like the only honest guy in the UK at this point is Tommy Robinson, but everyone just dismisses him as a bigot because they aren't willing to hear the truth.

[rjshae]

Caracas, Venezuela averaged 78 murders per day in 2016, and it's ongoing. Just saying...

[213374U]

 

 

80s and 90s were so much better... domestic terrorism in EUR never targeted civs on purpose and was rather limited.

You called?

 

 

If i recall correctly it was not intentional - someone screwed up either on the telephone caller or police with their reaction time to the warning time. While they placed the bomb, agreed, not the best method of fighting for own "freedom" their intent target were not the civilians, that's why they made the calls where the bomb is.

 

Compare bombings done by IRA or ETA to the "modern" wave of terror and you will notice large differences in methods and targets (on top of what those movements were fighting for and still are to some degree)

 

Don't know man, they did plant a bomb in a mall. Looks pretty intentional to me. They also liked to attack buildings where cops lived with their families... which unsurprisingly led to civilian casualties. And they frequently assassinated average joes who were members of certain political parties in small towns. Low(er)-intensity violence was directed at mom and pop stores, bars, and so on.

 

The differences in methods are attributable to these groups being more professionalized and having actual funding structures, command hierarchies and clear political goals. Evidently you are going to see differences between essentially lone wolf attackers who seem mostly unconcerned with their personal safety, and members of a paramilitary organization.

 

 

Regardless, I'm not sure that terrorist groups that select targets on political rather than cultural criteria are "better". Result is exactly the same if you happen to be part of their target collective, and the criteria is every bit as arbitrary. They all fight for "freedom" in their own mind.

[Malcador]

Seems like the only honest guy in the UK at this point is Tommy Robinson, but everyone just dismisses him as a bigot because they aren't willing to hear the truth.

Heh, interesting to read that after checking some of his Twitter posts. Decent pimping of the book though.

[Darkpriest]

 

 

 

80s and 90s were so much better... domestic terrorism in EUR never targeted civs on purpose and was rather limited.

You called?

 

 

If i recall correctly it was not intentional - someone screwed up either on the telephone caller or police with their reaction time to the warning time. While they placed the bomb, agreed, not the best method of fighting for own "freedom" their intent target were not the civilians, that's why they made the calls where the bomb is.

 

Compare bombings done by IRA or ETA to the "modern" wave of terror and you will notice large differences in methods and targets (on top of what those movements were fighting for and still are to some degree)

 

Don't know man, they did plant a bomb in a mall. Looks pretty intentional to me. They also liked to attack buildings where cops lived with their families... which unsurprisingly led to civilian casualties. And they frequently assassinated average joes who were members of certain political parties in small towns. Low(er)-intensity violence was directed at mom and pop stores, bars, and so on.

 

The differences in methods are attributable to these groups being more professionalized and having actual funding structures, command hierarchies and clear political goals. Evidently you are going to see differences between essentially lone wolf attackers who seem mostly unconcerned with their personal safety, and members of a paramilitary organization.

 

 

Regardless, I'm not sure that terrorist groups that select targets on political rather than cultural criteria are "better". Result is exactly the same if you happen to be part of their target collective, and the criteria is every bit as arbitrary. They all fight for "freedom" in their own mind.

 

 

There is a difference, and a significant one at that. For example I do not condemn such bomb attacks if they are aimed at non-civilian targets (i.e. military and political) and are done against targets who took your land and freedom away. You can argue if given organizations have legitimate causes and their real intentions though. Otherwise you'd have to condemn various independence movements / paramilitary organization throughout the history - including US independence, WW1 and WW2. It's a part of the asymetrical warfare.

 

However I do have a huge problem with target being painted on civilian populace to terrorize it and cause as much damage as possible with the goal of eradication of everyone who does not share your point of view and religious beliefs.

 

That's why motivation is a great difference, and why the domestic EU 'terror' was a much different beast than what we are facing from the wave of Islamic terrorizm.

[213374U]

There is a difference, and a significant one at that. For example I do not condemn such bomb attacks if they are aimed at non-civilian targets (i.e. military and political) and are done against targets who took your land and freedom away. You can argue if given organizations have legitimate causes and their real intentions though. Otherwise you'd have to condemn various independence movements / paramilitary organization throughout the history - including US independence, WW1 and WW2. It's a part of the asymetrical warfare.

 

However I do have a huge problem with target being painted on civilian populace to terrorize it and cause as much damage as possible with the goal of eradication of everyone who does not share your point of view and religious beliefs.

 

That's why motivation is a great difference, and why the domestic EU 'terror' was a much different beast than what we are facing from the wave of Islamic terrorizm.

 

I've no interest in getting into a debate of value judgments here -- the thing with violence is that it doesn't determine who is right, only who is left. I'm just pointing out, based on actual examples, that the differences you see aren't such.

 

These IS-"inspired" attackers target the populace at large because they don't see themselves as part of that populace, but that distinction is completely arbitrary, much like Basque freedom fighters not considering themselves Spanish. They prioritised high value political and military targets over plain citizens because they thought that was the most expedient way to accomplish their goals, namely the destabilization of the state, not out of any sense of honor or whatever else you're thinking. Proof of this is that they did not hesitate to murder any civilians that got in their way, and showed no regard for collateral damage. Again, this is when not directly targeting civilians.

 

Sorry, I'm just not seeing it.

[Chilloutman]

google translate from local media:

 

 

At the same time, the deputy rejected the calls that had been made in the last few days to warn the authorities about three thousand people on the government's terrorist list. According to Wallace, it would be "counterproductive". "Most (detainees) would come from the Muslim community. This would turn the community back against us and our police do not want to. Every policeman or cop would tell you it's a bad idea, "the deputy added.

 

Is it me or does it sound kinda funny xD

[Malcador]

google translate from local media:

 

 

At the same time, the deputy rejected the calls that had been made in the last few days to warn the authorities about three thousand people on the government's terrorist list. According to Wallace, it would be "counterproductive". "Most (detainees) would come from the Muslim community. This would turn the community back against us and our police do not want to. Every policeman or cop would tell you it's a bad idea, "the deputy added.

 

Is it me or does it sound kinda funny xD

Sounds like that terrorist list isn't put together correctly (big shock) if the cop thinks it wanders into collective

punishment territory.

[Hurlshort]

I'm kind of what Sharp_One thinks is the solution here? Just round up thousands of suspicious people and detain them?

[Malcador]

I'm kind of what Sharp_One thinks is the solution here? Just round up thousands of suspicious people and detain them?

Have heard that. I guess it's "Live free or die (if you look like me)"

 

I do recall the UK not nailing the radicals preaching as they are easier to watch and they see their followers. But not sure if that is the case still.

[Chilloutman]

I'm kind of what Sharp_One thinks is the solution here? Just round up thousands of suspicious people and detain them?

I think good start would be not take up more, sink all Soros ships and start protecting southern border (because eastern is protected). And deport any migrant causing any type of crime. Problem solved in 2 years

Edited May 26, 2017 by Chilloutman

[Hurlshort]

Ok, so let's say they do that (The Soros situation sounds a bit more complicated than that, but for simplicity sake.) Where do you deport these people? 

 

Also, since a lot of these attacks have been carried out by children of immigrants (who have citizenship), do you still deport them?

 

 

Is there an example of a recent terrorist attack where these types of policy would have stopped it from happening?

[Chilloutman]

1. Wherever they come from

2. yes

3. well there is probably few examples which could count as similar examples. EG. No attacks in Hungary?. Lets see how it will go in Philippines, seems it works in China, Japan is doing fine, Australia was doing decently until recently...

[Malcador]

Hm, how many generations can you go back ? Could deport Roof for example.

[Wrath of Dagon]

 

I'm kind of what Sharp_One thinks is the solution here? Just round up thousands of suspicious people and detain them?

I think good start would be not take up more, sink all Soros ships and start protecting southern border (because eastern is protected). And deport any migrant causing any type of crime. Problem solved in 2 years

 

Also deport Soros as a nazi collaborator.

[Gorgon]

What are 3  generations forth, People who haven't been born yet ?

[Hurlshort]

I assume they can't return for 3 generations.

[Malcador]

 

Hm, how many generations can you go back ?

You deport 3 generations back and 3 generations forth. You don't deport only those who informed authorities about activities of the criminal in their family.

Collective punishment is great. So some dude's grandfather is a terrorist threat and he gets booted?

 

Interesting what kind of state that approach will make in the long run.

Edited May 26, 2017 by Malcador