That's one ugly boat

[rjshae]

Is being on the ship considered "resting"? Or was "resting" an additional action while in your stronghold in PoE1?

 

I'd guess it would depend on whether the ship provides different rest bonuses, which would require a selection interface. Personally I wouldn't mind if the dropped that entirely and gave us some other bonus, like increased per-rest abilities.

[Gromnir]

yeah, an open space, which maximizes our already limited positioning options?  gosh, how could we possible advocate such a thing. 

 

 

limiting is not making necessarily better.  space is necessarily already limited to two deck surfaces.  sure, we still expect gangplanks 'n such, but given we got no z axis, why limit total gameplay space more than absolute necessary?

 

you already is conceding a submission to practicality with sails but refusing to do so with decking.  what you is arguing is therefore already admitted a kinda wispy and ephemeral aesthetic preference.  fine.  is nothing wrong with arguing aesthetics.  'course when you voluntarily pick and choose your gameplay arguments, you make far less convincing. 

 

based on past experience, am not thinking you is actual planning on resting either.  just a guess.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[PrimeJunta]

based on past experience, am not thinking you is actual planning on resting either.  just a guess.

Naw, I'm good. I never expected you to concede, I was mostly playing to the gallery there for a while now. :smug:

[Gromnir]

 

based on past experience, am not thinking you is actual planning on resting either.  just a guess.

Naw, I'm good. I never expected you to concede, I was mostly playing to the gallery there for a while now. :smug:

 

reason we brought up the resting point is 'cause we figured it would force you into a corner where you need be hypocritical or concede. :smug:

 

and we never figured you would admit largely uniform and rectangle decks were a practical concession worth embracing in spite o' your willingness to be gameplay practical with sails.  nevertheless, by dragging it out we got to point we could use an inglorious bastard clip and get you to tie yourself in a argument knot.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[JerekKruger]

A (possibly*) fairly simple solution to sails: have the sails rigged correctly, but when you zoom in they disappear, leaving just the base of each mast visible.

 

*Possibly because I don't know the limitations of Deadfire's engine.

[PrimeJunta]

A (possibly*) fairly simple solution to sails: have the sails rigged correctly, but when you zoom in they disappear, leaving just the base of each mast visible.

 

*Possibly because I don't know the limitations of Deadfire's engine.

That'd be quite easy I'm sure. Lots of other little tricks you could pull.

 

As far as boarding actions, I'm hoping they'll either do it properly, complete with ships grappling and crashing into each other, decks at different elevations involving climbing and jumping (with the appropriate animations), or bypass it through a scripted interaction, after which the ships are connected with a bridge or bridges (some planks laid down) at their point of contact, with a few predetermined configurations in which they can be. The boarding party would have to get over the bridge, the defending party would have to keep them out, and could turn the tables on them.

 

A halfway solution where the ships always line up neatly to form one big open battlefield would be boring.

[injurai]

I'm playing this game to experience reality so I don't have to step foot outside my house. Of course I want the rigging to obfuscate my view of the deck. How dare those sails not abide by proper fluid dynamics. Hmmph.

 

edit: ^ Yeah, I like the idea of fading them away. Maybe it could be a toggle, I don't know...

Edited February 24, 2017 by injurai

[Madscientist]

Gromnir, why do you want a reckangular ship?

In that case everybody has to use junks.

 

The ships shown by PJ are defenitely good enough for combat at sea, mostly because they have actually been used for exactly that purpose.

[PrimeJunta]

Gromnir, why do you want a reckangular ship?

In that case everybody has to use junks.

 

The ships shown by PJ are defenitely good enough for combat at sea, mostly because they have actually been used for exactly that purpose.

 

Junks aren't brick-shaped either. They have the same basic teardrop shape, except truncated at the bow and stern a bit more sharply. The sides bend out just like on European ships. Hydrodynamics and wood are the same everywhere.

 

[Gromnir]

Gromnir, why do you want a reckangular ship?

In that case everybody has to use junks.

 

The ships shown by PJ are defenitely good enough for combat at sea, mostly because they have actually been used for exactly that purpose.

pj shows a post european influence junk.  naughty.  the junk, traditional junk, has no keel and is far more brick-like than pj suggests. a junk will often use an over-large rudder for stability and other options.  because it has no deep keel, the junk is predictably quicker, but terrible to the leeward... is other issues, but the junk were also more brick like.  is a reason we suggested just going with the junk above.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Paladin Ryan]

To be honest I just kind of assumed that there was an appropriately shaped hull in the water that we couldn't see from the point of view of the image.

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

 

 

I could go on but you get the picture. Pillars 2 is looking really good overall, but you dropped the ball badly on what should be one of the coolest elements in it. Please, have whoever modelled the Defiant look at some actual ship models and do it over. If you're not actual nautical engineers, pick a historical reference and work from that. I don't care about precise use of terminology. I don't care if you want to be period-correct and go with cogs, carracks, caravels, galleons, and what have you, or want to do that pirate thing to the max and give us sloops, schooners, cutters, brigs, frigates or whatever. Either one is cool. Just... not this ugly abomination of a... thing, okay? It triggers me, I used to build scale models of these things as a kid.

 

Please?

 

 

THANK YOU.

 

Them calling it a "sloop" was really bugging me on a fundamental level. I was trying to figure out what the Defiant actually was and was leaning towards diagnosing it as a single-masted caravel, but you're right, it's a cog. And a weird one at that.

 

We reached the other ship types option, so hopefully at least one of them will be a Junk and one an actual period sloop.

 

 

Gromnir, why do you want a reckangular ship?

In that case everybody has to use junks.

 

The ships shown by PJ are defenitely good enough for combat at sea, mostly because they have actually been used for exactly that purpose.

 

Junks aren't brick-shaped either. They have the same basic teardrop shape, except truncated at the bow and stern a bit more sharply. The sides bend out just like on European ships. Hydrodynamics and wood are the same everywhere.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Something like this would be great. Junks would be period appropriate too.

Edited February 25, 2017 by Dr. Hieronymous Alloy

[zered]

I like this ship actually.

[Aramintai]

Wow, so many ship nerds here But that's a good thing, since different ships stretch goal was achieved someone needs to verify whether concepts drawn by devs are seaworthy, so to speak.

Personally, the only two things that bugged me in that video were that the guy near the ship's wheel wasn't holding it and that the ship itself seemed too small compared to character models on it. I hope this will be addressed and adjusted later on.

Even BG2 had bigger boats:

Edited February 25, 2017 by Aramintai

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

I like this ship actually.

 

 

It's a nice enough ship unless you have experience with wooden ships (I've just played a lot of really, really detailed naval themed computer games -- stuff like Naval Action where every ship is based on very specific historical models). If you're familiar with actual period ship designs it's . .  .just right enough that it's not technically wrong, but still wrong enough to be deeply upsetting. 

 

My guess is that the artists were given images of medieval cogs to use as inspiration and then at some point someone messed up and started calling it a sloop because it technically fits the definition (single masted, fore and aft rigged) even though no sloop would ever have that huge an aftercastle.

Edited February 25, 2017 by Dr. Hieronymous Alloy

[PrimeJunta]

Wow, so many ship nerds here But that's a good thing, since different ships stretch goal was achieved someone needs to verify whether concepts drawn by devs are seaworthy, so to speak.

 

They shouldn't need consultants for that. All they need is to look at some actual ships and base the designs on those, like how they do for weapons, armour, and architecture. They don't need to be historically accurate or detail-perfect or anything like that, they just need to look like viable, seaworthy vessels suited for their intended purpose, whatever that is. A half-hour on Google would already help. If they want to do it right, I'd suggest buying a plastic model kit of the kind of boat they want to have and building that, it'll give you a very good idea of what goes into them. Won't even take that long if you're doing it for research and not painting it, that's the time-consuming part.

 

This could be a good start... https://www.hobbylinc.com/heller-corsair-single-masted-sailing-ship-plastic-model-sailing-ship-kit-1:150-scale-80616

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

One thing they could do is have different factions have different tech levels and ship types. Like you show up from the Dyrwood in a cog because Aedyr and the Dyrwood are not a shipping nation, the pirate faction has junks, the rauatai have age-of-sail sleek-ass racing sloops, or hell, racing clippers, the vailians have frigates or even galleons, etc.

[Aramintai]

One thing they could do is have different factions have different tech levels and ship types. Like you show up from the Dyrwood in a cog because Aedyr and the Dyrwood are not a shipping nation, the pirate faction has junks, the rauatai have age-of-sail sleek-ass racing sloops, or hell, racing clippers, the vailians have frigates or even galleons, etc.

Actually I think it's Rauatai who will have junks of all nations because their style seem to be based on Japanese, at least their clothing (take a look at Maia).

[JerekKruger]

It's a nice enough ship unless you have experience with wooden ships (I've just played a lot of really, really detailed naval themed computer games -- stuff like Naval Action where every ship is based on very specific historical models). If you're familiar with actual period ship designs it's . .  .just right enough that it's not technically wrong, but still wrong enough to be deeply upsetting. 

 

Exactly. It's a bit like how my view on fantasy armour changed once I learnt about why historical armour was designed the way it was. Suddenly armour that used to look badass looks dumb.

 

Actually I think it's Rauatai who will have junks of all nations because their style seem to be based on Japanese, at least their clothing (take a look at Maia).

 

I'm not seeing the Japanese influence in Maia myself. I got a strong Ottoman Empire vibe from Kana's descriptions of Ruatai but I don't know whether that was intended or not.

[KaiG]

I have to say, I really appreciate this thread. The OP clearly knows what he's talking about and conveyed it in a constructive manner.

 

I have to agree, the Defiant doesn't look as good as it could, but I wouldn't have been able to articulate it nearly as clearly as this thread does. There's something about the shape that's odd, it looks dumpy and square, parts of it look too small and others too large. I wonder if there's a chance for things to change?

[Aramintai]

I'm not seeing the Japanese influence in Maia myself. I got a strong Ottoman Empire vibe from Kana's descriptions of Ruatai but I don't know whether that was intended or not.

 

Nope, definetly Japanese, and devs even confirmed it somewhere, don't remember where now. I think they mentioned Ainu people's clothing as an inspiration.

I can see the ornament resemblance here. And that footwear definitely looks Japanese too. I believe those sandals are called waraji.

 

Clothes alone, of course do not mean everything else, like culture for example, are based on Japan. But seems fitting to assume that their ships look Asian.

Edited February 25, 2017 by Aramintai

[Gromnir]

 

It's a nice enough ship unless you have experience with wooden ships (I've just played a lot of really, really detailed naval themed computer games -- stuff like Naval Action where every ship is based on very specific historical models). If you're familiar with actual period ship designs it's . .  .just right enough that it's not technically wrong, but still wrong enough to be deeply upsetting. 

 

Exactly. It's a bit like how my view on fantasy armour changed once I learnt about why historical armour was designed the way it was. Suddenly armour that used to look badass looks dumb.

 

another pandora's box thread.  am tempted to resurrect the old poe development threads regarding armour, particular female model armors.  honest.  folks is being mighty peculiar and selective with their willingness to accept the implausible.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[JerekKruger]

\snip

 

Yeah, I did some searches and I can see the resemblance. Interesting.

[JerekKruger]

another pandora's box thread.  am tempted to resurrect the old poe development threads regarding armour, particular female model armors.  honest.  folks is being mighty peculiar and selective with their willingness to accept the implausible.

 

Given I wasn't part of those discussions, I have no idea what you're trying to say in this post. Feel free to expand on how I am being selective.

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

 

 

It's a nice enough ship unless you have experience with wooden ships (I've just played a lot of really, really detailed naval themed computer games -- stuff like Naval Action where every ship is based on very specific historical models). If you're familiar with actual period ship designs it's . .  .just right enough that it's not technically wrong, but still wrong enough to be deeply upsetting. 

 

Exactly. It's a bit like how my view on fantasy armour changed once I learnt about why historical armour was designed the way it was. Suddenly armour that used to look badass looks dumb.

 

another pandora's box thread.  am tempted to resurrect the old poe development threads regarding armour, particular female model armors.  honest.  folks is being mighty peculiar and selective with their willingness to accept the implausible.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

 

Oh yeah, it could be. And I don't want to imply that the Defiant is, like, World of Warcraft armor shoulders or anything. It's subtly off. But in a way that's almost worse -- it's like it falls into an Uncanny Valley of ship design where it's both too historical and not historical enough.