Politics 2017 Part 3

[Chilloutman]

 

 

 

 

That's sick, and no, I am against killing no matter who the person is. You are mixing deportation with lynching. And I am not against immigrants, I am against illegal immigrants and so called refugees. But I know its hard to distinguished for some people who thinks that anyone against immigration is actually nazi

 

But it is rephrasing what you said

 

"Well its your view. I for one would vouch for 40K people from Africa to go back with posibility to die than let anyone from my circle get raped. And I am not ashamed of it."

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/91622-politics-2017-part-3/page-17?do=findComment&comment=1889867

 

 

And where is the contradiction?

 

 

Yeah that is the question that I am asking

 

 

I think you need to be little more clear. I don't know what you mean by all of this

[Elerond]

 

 

 

 

 

That's sick, and no, I am against killing no matter who the person is. You are mixing deportation with lynching. And I am not against immigrants, I am against illegal immigrants and so called refugees. But I know its hard to distinguished for some people who thinks that anyone against immigration is actually nazi

 

But it is rephrasing what you said

 

"Well its your view. I for one would vouch for 40K people from Africa to go back with posibility to die than let anyone from my circle get raped. And I am not ashamed of it."

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/91622-politics-2017-part-3/page-17?do=findComment&comment=1889867

 

 

And where is the contradiction?

 

 

Yeah that is the question that I am asking

 

 

I think you need to be little more clear. I don't know what you mean by all of this

 

 

Where is contraction between in my rephrasing and what you said?

 

I mean you would sent 40k people with actual refugee status face near certain death (determined by officials that gave them that refugee status) instead of letting anybody in your circle get raped, how that is different from "Both the victims and attacker were asylum seekers and therefore need to be get rid off. Isn't that what people here have been campaign for? Better let them to die than let any harm to come for actual Germans (or in case of some other European country, that country's citizens)"

 

Or would it had been better if that family had been sent back to Iraq where they would most likely had been raped and killed by ISIS fighters, not that their faith was much better in Germany.

[Chilloutman]

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's sick, and no, I am against killing no matter who the person is. You are mixing deportation with lynching. And I am not against immigrants, I am against illegal immigrants and so called refugees. But I know its hard to distinguished for some people who thinks that anyone against immigration is actually nazi

 

But it is rephrasing what you said

 

"Well its your view. I for one would vouch for 40K people from Africa to go back with posibility to die than let anyone from my circle get raped. And I am not ashamed of it."

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/91622-politics-2017-part-3/page-17?do=findComment&comment=1889867

 

 

And where is the contradiction?

 

 

Yeah that is the question that I am asking

 

 

I think you need to be little more clear. I don't know what you mean by all of this

 

 

Where is contraction between in my rephrasing and what you said?

 

I mean you would sent 40k people with actual refugee status face near certain death (determined by officials that gave them that refugee status) instead of letting anybody in your circle get raped, how that is different from "Both the victims and attacker were asylum seekers and therefore need to be get rid off. Isn't that what people here have been campaign for? Better let them to die than let any harm to come for actual Germans (or in case of some other European country, that country's citizens)"

 

Or would it had been better if that family had been sent back to Iraq where they would most likely had been raped and killed by ISIS fighters, not that their faith was much better in Germany.

 

 

Ehh, so result is same but Germans have to pay for it. There is actually great chance that in their home country he would just killed that freak and he would be still alive, I don't think that family is now better than it would be in home country or some refugee camp

[redneckdevil]

I think the difference is that chilloutman said with the "possibility" of death while Elerond statement seems to imply they "will" die.

Ones a it might happen and one is will happen.

 

Also are refugees in Germany "illegal" or just a legal immigrant?

Edited February 24, 2017 by redneckdevil

[Chilloutman]

I think the difference is that chilloutman said with the "possibility" of death while Elerond statement seems to imply they "will" die.

Ones a it might happen and one is will happen.

 

and that

[Elerond]

I think the difference is that chilloutman said with the "possibility" of death while Elerond statement seems to imply they "will" die.

Ones a it might happen and one is will happen.

 

Also are refugees in Germany "illegal" or just a legal immigrant?

 

Refugees aren't never illegal, because to be refugee you need to be legally recognized as such, but asylum seekers are technically illegal until they get refugee status, residence permit for some other reason or are deported. But situation isn't all that simple because people may also have residence permit in another EU country which may or may not allow them to travel to other EU countries and if their permit don't allow them to travel they aren't counted as illegal immigrants put people that break their residence permit in another EU country and they should be returned there.

[Chilloutman]

 

I think the difference is that chilloutman said with the "possibility" of death while Elerond statement seems to imply they "will" die.

Ones a it might happen and one is will happen.

 

Also are refugees in Germany "illegal" or just a legal immigrant?

 

Refugees aren't never illegal, because to be refugee you need to be legally recognized as such, but asylum seekers are technically illegal until they get refugee status, residence permit for some other reason or are deported. But situation isn't all that simple because people may also have residence permit in another EU country which may or may not allow them to travel to other EU countries and if their permit don't allow them to travel they aren't counted as illegal immigrants put people that break their residence permit in another EU country and they should be returned there.

 

 

Technically they are all illegal and they break a law. According to international law they should stay in first safe country

[Elerond]

I think the difference is that chilloutman said with the "possibility" of death while Elerond statement seems to imply they "will" die.

Ones a it might happen and one is will happen.

 

Also are refugees in Germany "illegal" or just a legal immigrant?

 

But question was about people that are determined in case of deportation to more likely to die because of persecution, war or some other cause known before hand than live to die from old age aka legally determined refugees. Meaning that "will" is more probable in their case than mere "possibility".

[Chilloutman]

 

I think the difference is that chilloutman said with the "possibility" of death while Elerond statement seems to imply they "will" die.

Ones a it might happen and one is will happen.

 

Also are refugees in Germany "illegal" or just a legal immigrant?

 

But question was about people that are determined in case of deportation to more likely to die because of persecution, war or some other cause known before hand than live to die from old age aka legally determined refugees. Meaning that "will" is more probable in their case than mere "possibility".

 

 

yeah sure, all of the refugees are gays

[Elerond]

 

 

I think the difference is that chilloutman said with the "possibility" of death while Elerond statement seems to imply they "will" die.

Ones a it might happen and one is will happen.

 

Also are refugees in Germany "illegal" or just a legal immigrant?

 

But question was about people that are determined in case of deportation to more likely to die because of persecution, war or some other cause known before hand than live to die from old age aka legally determined refugees. Meaning that "will" is more probable in their case than mere "possibility".

 

 

yeah sure, all of the refugees are gays

 

 

Homosexuality is quite rare as reason why people get refugee status (I think it was reason for less than 100 from those 40k). Usually it is political, religious, or general war in their residential area. But that don't change the fact that risk of dying in their home country is the determining factor when it comes to getting or not getting refugee status. And when that risk is lowered enough said refugees are meant to be sent back to their home countries, but in cases where people have been in Finland for decades they usually get residence permit and possibility to seek citizenship, when they lose their refugee status.

[Chilloutman]

 

 

 

I think the difference is that chilloutman said with the "possibility" of death while Elerond statement seems to imply they "will" die.

Ones a it might happen and one is will happen.

 

Also are refugees in Germany "illegal" or just a legal immigrant?

 

But question was about people that are determined in case of deportation to more likely to die because of persecution, war or some other cause known before hand than live to die from old age aka legally determined refugees. Meaning that "will" is more probable in their case than mere "possibility".

 

 

yeah sure, all of the refugees are gays

 

 

Homosexuality is quite rare as reason why people get refugee status (I think it was reason for less than 100 from those 40k). Usually it is political, religious, or general war in their residential area. But that don't change the fact that risk of dying in their home country is the determining factor when it comes to getting or not getting refugee status. And when that risk is lowered enough said refugees are meant to be sent back to their home countries, but in cases where people have been in Finland for decades they usually get residence permit and possibility to seek citizenship, when they lose their refugee status.

 

 

We have been over this multiple times. These people usually even don't have any ID. Everyone can 'say' he is being persecuted for any reason mentioned above and you will be never able to verify such claim

[Elerond]

 

 

 

 

I think the difference is that chilloutman said with the "possibility" of death while Elerond statement seems to imply they "will" die.

Ones a it might happen and one is will happen.

 

Also are refugees in Germany "illegal" or just a legal immigrant?

 

But question was about people that are determined in case of deportation to more likely to die because of persecution, war or some other cause known before hand than live to die from old age aka legally determined refugees. Meaning that "will" is more probable in their case than mere "possibility".

 

 

yeah sure, all of the refugees are gays

 

 

Homosexuality is quite rare as reason why people get refugee status (I think it was reason for less than 100 from those 40k). Usually it is political, religious, or general war in their residential area. But that don't change the fact that risk of dying in their home country is the determining factor when it comes to getting or not getting refugee status. And when that risk is lowered enough said refugees are meant to be sent back to their home countries, but in cases where people have been in Finland for decades they usually get residence permit and possibility to seek citizenship, when they lose their refugee status.

 

 

We have been over this multiple times. These people usually even don't have any ID. Everyone can 'say' he is being persecuted for any reason mentioned above and you will be never able to verify such claim

 

 

People that our officials can't determine to face persecution or some other form certain threat in their home country don't get refugee status. Yes there is probably some people that are able to get refugee status by lying to our officials but all the studies about subject say that if it is so it is very rare.

 

People who seek refugee status are interviewed and investigated, by police, immigrant official, national security officials, social officials, psychologist, doctors in process that takes over a year. It isn't easy to become refugee in Finland especially if you entered here illegally without papers.

[Chilloutman]

 

 

 

 

 

I think the difference is that chilloutman said with the "possibility" of death while Elerond statement seems to imply they "will" die.

Ones a it might happen and one is will happen.

 

Also are refugees in Germany "illegal" or just a legal immigrant?

 

But question was about people that are determined in case of deportation to more likely to die because of persecution, war or some other cause known before hand than live to die from old age aka legally determined refugees. Meaning that "will" is more probable in their case than mere "possibility".

 

 

yeah sure, all of the refugees are gays

 

 

Homosexuality is quite rare as reason why people get refugee status (I think it was reason for less than 100 from those 40k). Usually it is political, religious, or general war in their residential area. But that don't change the fact that risk of dying in their home country is the determining factor when it comes to getting or not getting refugee status. And when that risk is lowered enough said refugees are meant to be sent back to their home countries, but in cases where people have been in Finland for decades they usually get residence permit and possibility to seek citizenship, when they lose their refugee status.

 

 

We have been over this multiple times. These people usually even don't have any ID. Everyone can 'say' he is being persecuted for any reason mentioned above and you will be never able to verify such claim

 

 

People that our officials can't determine to face persecution or some other form certain threat in their home country don't get refugee status. Yes there is probably some people that are able to get refugee status by lying to our officials but all the studies about subject say that if it is so it is very rare.

 

People who seek refugee status are interviewed and investigated, by police, immigrant official, national security officials, social officials, psychologist, doctors in process that takes over a year. It isn't easy to become refugee in Finland especially if you entered here illegally without papers.

 

 

And how many of these who didn't get that status were ACTUALLY deported? I mean I don't follow Finland much but in Germany they usually just disappear

[Elerond]

And how many of these who didn't get that status were ACTUALLY deported? I mean I don't follow Finland much but in Germany they usually just disappear

 

Last year over 10k

 

 

EDIT: Most leave voluntary

Edited February 24, 2017 by Elerond

[Chilloutman]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think the difference is that chilloutman said with the "possibility" of death while Elerond statement seems to imply they "will" die.

Ones a it might happen and one is will happen.

 

Also are refugees in Germany "illegal" or just a legal immigrant?

 

But question was about people that are determined in case of deportation to more likely to die because of persecution, war or some other cause known before hand than live to die from old age aka legally determined refugees. Meaning that "will" is more probable in their case than mere "possibility".

 

 

yeah sure, all of the refugees are gays

 

 

Homosexuality is quite rare as reason why people get refugee status (I think it was reason for less than 100 from those 40k). Usually it is political, religious, or general war in their residential area. But that don't change the fact that risk of dying in their home country is the determining factor when it comes to getting or not getting refugee status. And when that risk is lowered enough said refugees are meant to be sent back to their home countries, but in cases where people have been in Finland for decades they usually get residence permit and possibility to seek citizenship, when they lose their refugee status.

 

 

We have been over this multiple times. These people usually even don't have any ID. Everyone can 'say' he is being persecuted for any reason mentioned above and you will be never able to verify such claim

 

 

People that our officials can't determine to face persecution or some other form certain threat in their home country don't get refugee status. Yes there is probably some people that are able to get refugee status by lying to our officials but all the studies about subject say that if it is so it is very rare.

 

People who seek refugee status are interviewed and investigated, by police, immigrant official, national security officials, social officials, psychologist, doctors in process that takes over a year. It isn't easy to become refugee in Finland especially if you entered here illegally without papers.

 

 

And how many of these who didn't get that status were ACTUALLY deported? I mean I don't follow Finland much but in Germany they usually just disappear

 

 

Last year over 10k 

 

 

Doesn't sound that much compared to how many you get in (not to mention that they should be deported to first save country anyway)

[Elerond]

Doesn't sound that much compared to how many you get in (not to mention that they should be deported to first save country anyway)

2015 there was 32 477 people that seek asylum from Finland from these 14 656 were denied and sent away, most left voluntary, 7806 got refugee status, in 2128 cases person left from country before their processing was over, 3252 cases application expired before process was over. 4635 cases is still without resolution.

 

EDIT: Added cases without resolution

Edited February 24, 2017 by Elerond

[Chilloutman]

 

Doesn't sound that much compared to how many you get in (not to mention that they should be deported to first save country anyway)

2015 there was 32 477 people that seek asylum from Finland from these 14 656 were denied and sent away, most left voluntary, 7806 got refugee status, in 2128 cases person left from country before their processing was over, 3252 cases application expired before process was over. 4635 cases is still without resolution.

 

EDIT: Added cases without resolution

 

 

So you basically agree that most of 'refugees' are actually not refugees even in Finland (8000 given status against 25000 claiming it). Now imagine how that ratio looks in Germany, not to mention France or Italy...

Edited February 24, 2017 by Chilloutman

[Elerond]

 

 

Doesn't sound that much compared to how many you get in (not to mention that they should be deported to first save country anyway)

2015 there was 32 477 people that seek asylum from Finland from these 14 656 were denied and sent away, most left voluntary, 7806 got refugee status, in 2128 cases person left from country before their processing was over, 3252 cases application expired before process was over. 4635 cases is still without resolution.

 

EDIT: Added cases without resolution

 

 

So you basically agree that most of 'refugees' are actually not refugees even in Finland (8000 given status against 25000 claiming it). Now imagine how that ratio looks in Germany, not to mention France or Italy...

 

All refugees are refugees, but most asylum seekers aren't in situation that merits refugee status.

 

EDIT:

 

Refugee is person that has received asylum, meaning that they are determined to need international protection.

Asylum seeker is person who seeks asylum and therefore to be recognized as person who needs international protection aka refugee.

 

In media and internet and in general speech people use these terms so loosely that it is often difficult to determine who they actually are speaking about.

Edited February 24, 2017 by Elerond

[Chilloutman]

 

 

 

Doesn't sound that much compared to how many you get in (not to mention that they should be deported to first save country anyway)

2015 there was 32 477 people that seek asylum from Finland from these 14 656 were denied and sent away, most left voluntary, 7806 got refugee status, in 2128 cases person left from country before their processing was over, 3252 cases application expired before process was over. 4635 cases is still without resolution.

 

EDIT: Added cases without resolution

 

 

So you basically agree that most of 'refugees' are actually not refugees even in Finland (8000 given status against 25000 claiming it). Now imagine how that ratio looks in Germany, not to mention France or Italy...

 

All refugees are refugees, but most asylum seekers aren't in situation that merits refugee status.

 

 

Now its only word play, c'mon you know what I mean

[redneckdevil]

 

I think the difference is that chilloutman said with the "possibility" of death while Elerond statement seems to imply they "will" die.

Ones a it might happen and one is will happen.

 

Also are refugees in Germany "illegal" or just a legal immigrant?

Refugees aren't never illegal, because to be refugee you need to be legally recognized as such, but asylum seekers are technically illegal until they get refugee status, residence permit for some other reason or are deported. But situation isn't all that simple because people may also have residence permit in another EU country which may or may not allow them to travel to other EU countries and if their permit don't allow them to travel they aren't counted as illegal immigrants put people that break their residence permit in another EU country and they should be returned there.

Ty for the answer. Damn that sounds a bit complicated

[Volourn]

"The news is making it sound as if the father was killed on purpose,"

 

You point your gun at someone and pull the trigger, you *are* killing someone on purpose. This is doubly so for police since what I've ehard is they are often trained to go for the kill not injury. The question here is if they had the right if not the outright obligation to do so in this scenario. As much as I feel the father,  part of me feels that the police had to do something. Perhaps they could have handled it better but they couldn't just stand there and do do nothing. They would not be doing their job. That said, the scumbag rapist should be getting a bunch more severe punishment.

[Drowsy Emperor]

Still watching the drive by on Milo.

 

You can tell they were just waiting to spring it on him.

[Volourn]

Espicially now since there is a video showing Bill Maher being positive about an adult having sex with a kid... yet, the lefties have been rather quiet about that.. Hmm... which is suprrtising since Maher isn't exactly a SJW guy to begin with. But, I guess he is anti Trump like that ST dude or that actress who molested her sister so it is okay for them to be like that. L0L

[Malcador]

Still watching the drive by on Milo.

 

You can tell they were just waiting to spring it on him.

Well you live as you fight.

[Varana]

but in Germany they usually just disappear

That is wrong.