Wrath of Dagon Posted February 10, 2017 Posted February 10, 2017 (edited) I really don't know what you're talking about. The judges had to decide if the states' case has enough merit to be likely to succeed, they decided that it does, but their reasoning is nonsensical and unprecedented. Edit: Btw, I don't think the entire EO is overturned like everyone seems to believe. So far as I know they're still not issuing any new visas. Edited February 10, 2017 by Wrath of Dagon "Moral indignation is a standard strategy for endowing the idiot with dignity." Marshall McLuhan
Gromnir Posted February 10, 2017 Author Posted February 10, 2017 (edited) *chuckle* wod is the one talking nonsense, and judicial review o' executive actions regarding national security and immigration is hardly unprecedented. perhaps worst for the wh is that the appellate court, a diverse group which includes bush, obama and even a carter appointee, were unanimous in identifying the ultimate bogeyman in the mess that is the travel ban executive order: procedural due process. like it or not, many folks affected by the travel ban can raise 5th amendment due process whether they is citizens or not, and individual states can raise a claim on behalf o' those with such rights. put it in visual terms easy to understand: honest, if this thing were to make it to the SCOTUS, we predict it would be a 7-1 decision with trump on the losing end, and not 4-4 as some folks imagine. the order were poorly drafted, and the appellate court, while not pulling any punches, laid out a pretty nice road map the wh can use to fix where they went wrong. smart move would be for trump to start over with a new order and get it right this time. the good thing for trump haters everywhere is, given trump's all caps response we quoted above, he is not gonna be smart. HA! Good Fun! Edited February 10, 2017 by Gromnir 1 "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
PK htiw klaw eriF Posted February 10, 2017 Posted February 10, 2017 Who would be the dissenter in a hypothetical 7-1? "Akiva Goldsman and Alex Kurtzman run the 21st century version of MK ULTRA." - majestic "you're a damned filthy lying robot and you deserve to die and burn in hell." - Bartimaeus "Without individual thinking you can't notice the plot holes." - InsaneCommander "Just feed off the suffering of gamers." - Malcador "You are calling my taste crap." -Hurlshort "thankfully it seems like the creators like Hungary less this time around." - Sarex "Don't forget the wakame, dumbass" -Keyrock "Are you trolling or just being inadvertently nonsensical?' -Pidesco "we have already been forced to admit you are at least human" - uuuhhii "I refuse to buy from non-woke businesses" - HoonDing "feral camels are now considered a pest" - Gorth "Melkathi is known to be an overly critical grumpy person" - Melkathi "Oddly enough Sanderson was a lot more direct despite being a Mormon" - Zoraptor "I found it greatly disturbing to scroll through my cartoon's halfing selection of genitalias." - Wormerine "I love cheese despite the pain and carnage." - ShadySands
Agiel Posted February 10, 2017 Posted February 10, 2017 (edited) Conway gets called out by the House Oversight Committee, leaks show that Trump was totally ignorant of New START, Flynn was revealed to have been lying about his calls with Russia before Trump being sworn in (which potentially means he'll be "resigning" from the NSA post before Spicer gets the boot), Trump is now walking back on his Taiwan call, and now the appellate court rules against the immigration ban, and that was just this Thursday. If I was a betting man I would now put my money on "Trump keels over from high blood pressure" over "impeachment" and "resignation" for how this administration ends. Edited February 10, 2017 by Agiel Quote “Political philosophers have often pointed out that in wartime, the citizen, the male citizen at least, loses one of his most basic rights, his right to life; and this has been true ever since the French Revolution and the invention of conscription, now an almost universally accepted principle. But these same philosophers have rarely noted that the citizen in question simultaneously loses another right, one just as basic and perhaps even more vital for his conception of himself as a civilized human being: the right not to kill.” -Jonathan Littell <<Les Bienveillantes>> Quote "The chancellor, the late chancellor, was only partly correct. He was obsolete. But so is the State, the entity he worshipped. Any state, entity, or ideology becomes obsolete when it stockpiles the wrong weapons: when it captures territories, but not minds; when it enslaves millions, but convinces nobody. When it is naked, yet puts on armor and calls it faith, while in the Eyes of God it has no faith at all. Any state, any entity, any ideology that fails to recognize the worth, the dignity, the rights of Man...that state is obsolete." -Rod Serling
Gromnir Posted February 10, 2017 Author Posted February 10, 2017 Who would be the dissenter in a hypothetical 7-1? thomas HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
Meshugger Posted February 10, 2017 Posted February 10, 2017 If this reaches the supreme court, what section of the constitution will be contested then? As what is missing from the order or what is the Executive Order in direct violation of? "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy
Calax Posted February 10, 2017 Posted February 10, 2017 If this reaches the supreme court, what section of the constitution will be contested then? As what is missing from the order or what is the Executive Order in direct violation of? I presume commerce given that the argument from the state of Washington is that the travel ban has severely damaged it's economy in terms of tourism and education (specifically that members of it's educational system are unable to perform their jobs at Universities). And technically Article I, Section 8, of the constitution states that it's Legislative that controls immigration, thus kicking it right out of Trump's authority. (I am not a legal authority, just borrowed info from http://www.americanbar.org/publications/insights_on_law_andsociety/14/spring-2014/who-is-responsible-for-u-s--immigration-policy-.html ) Victor of the 5 year fan fic competition! Kevin Butler will awesome your face off.
Pidesco Posted February 10, 2017 Posted February 10, 2017 This may be a long 4 years. I think it'll be a long period but shorter than 4 years. I'm willing to bet that Trump screws up enough politically that he's either forced to abdicate or is impeached and removed from power in disgrace because he pushed the entire establishment in a bad way. Unless the Democrats win back the house and the senate in a unprecedented landslide in 2018, there is no way in hell Trump gets impeached. "My hovercraft is full of eels!" - Hungarian touristI am Dan Quayle of the Romans.I want to tattoo a map of the Netherlands on my nether lands.Heja Sverige!!Everyone should cuffawkle more.The wrench is your friend.
Ben No.3 Posted February 10, 2017 Posted February 10, 2017 Wait... as a non American, I'm confused... if the constitution says that immigration is the legislatives job, how is it even possible for Trump to even attempt to control immigration? Everybody knows the deal is rotten Old Black Joe's still pickin' cotton For your ribbons and bows And everybody knows
Pidesco Posted February 10, 2017 Posted February 10, 2017 2 "My hovercraft is full of eels!" - Hungarian touristI am Dan Quayle of the Romans.I want to tattoo a map of the Netherlands on my nether lands.Heja Sverige!!Everyone should cuffawkle more.The wrench is your friend.
Oerwinde Posted February 10, 2017 Posted February 10, 2017 Wait... as a non American, I'm confused... if the constitution says that immigration is the legislatives job, how is it even possible for Trump to even attempt to control immigration? Congress passed a law in the 50s giving the president the power to deny entry to any group of "aliens" if he believes them to be a detriment to US interests. The 1965 immigration act makes discrimination based on various factors illegal, but religion is not one of those factors. So my understanding is if the EO actually was a flat out ban on all muslims, it would still be legal. Its not though. Its basically just lefties opposing Trump because they hate him and Trump being a giant baby about it. 1 The area between the balls and the butt is a hotbed of terrorist activity.
Wrath of Dagon Posted February 10, 2017 Posted February 10, 2017 (edited) *chuckle* wod is the one talking nonsense, and judicial review o' executive actions regarding national security and immigration is hardly unprecedented. perhaps worst for the wh is that the appellate court, a diverse group which includes bush, obama and even a carter appointee, were unanimous in identifying the ultimate bogeyman in the mess that is the travel ban executive order: procedural due process. like it or not, many folks affected by the travel ban can raise 5th amendment due process whether they is citizens or not, and individual states can raise a claim on behalf o' those with such rights. put it in visual terms easy to understand: honest, if this thing were to make it to the SCOTUS, we predict it would be a 7-1 decision with trump on the losing end, and not 4-4 as some folks imagine. the order were poorly drafted, and the appellate court, while not pulling any punches, laid out a pretty nice road map the wh can use to fix where they went wrong. smart move would be for trump to start over with a new order and get it right this time. the good thing for trump haters everywhere is, given trump's all caps response we quoted above, he is not gonna be smart. HA! Good Fun! lol , and I thought you were at least a decent lawyer. Edit: btw, Congress also determined that those 7 countries present a terrorism danger. So the court not only usurped presidential authority but also congressional one. Edited February 10, 2017 by Wrath of Dagon "Moral indignation is a standard strategy for endowing the idiot with dignity." Marshall McLuhan
Pidesco Posted February 10, 2017 Posted February 10, 2017 "My hovercraft is full of eels!" - Hungarian touristI am Dan Quayle of the Romans.I want to tattoo a map of the Netherlands on my nether lands.Heja Sverige!!Everyone should cuffawkle more.The wrench is your friend.
Chilloutman Posted February 10, 2017 Posted February 10, 2017 guys, can't you just make thread named Trump? Its like 6th thread where every second post is about Trump. I fear that I will open fridge and there will be hidden Trump... I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiene"
Gfted1 Posted February 10, 2017 Posted February 10, 2017 guys, can't you just make thread named Trump? Its like 6th thread where every second post is about Trump. I fear that I will open fridge and there will be hidden Trump... This much hurt in the butt cannot be contained to one thread. Every snark is new and original. Every utterance by Trump newsworthy! LOOK LOOK, someone misspoke! HAHAHAHAHAHA. 1 "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa"
Gromnir Posted February 10, 2017 Author Posted February 10, 2017 guys, can't you just make thread named Trump? Its like 6th thread where every second post is about Trump. I fear that I will open fridge and there will be hidden Trump... trump is doing so much crazy it is impossible to contain in a single thread. if you keep all in one place, then the magpies 'mongst the board population get easily distracted by the brightest shiny object and a discussion 'bout building a border wall sudden morphs into a debate 'bout terrorism or spicer's daily hostage video, or something complete different. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
Wrath of Dagon Posted February 10, 2017 Posted February 10, 2017 Article arguing that Garland would've been better for Trump on this issue than Gorsuch: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/article/2614444 What the author misses is that liberal judges are fine with executive overreach if it benefits liberal causes, but will stop even legitimate exercise of executive power if they don't like the result. "Moral indignation is a standard strategy for endowing the idiot with dignity." Marshall McLuhan
Guard Dog Posted February 10, 2017 Posted February 10, 2017 Spicer's daily hostage video. Now THAT is funny! "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell
Gromnir Posted February 10, 2017 Author Posted February 10, 2017 spicer pressers make more sense if you imagine him wearing an orange jumper and kneeling. HA! Good Fun! 1 "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
Gromnir Posted February 10, 2017 Author Posted February 10, 2017 http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trumps-refugee-ban-and-the-legal-battle-over-it-quicktake-qanda/ar-AAmNXTG?ocid=spartanntp worth listening to the video, particularly as he repeats Gromnir observation 'bout the procedural due process issue. trump would be smart to simple rewrite his terrible authored order. hope he doesn't. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
Wrath of Dagon Posted February 10, 2017 Posted February 10, 2017 All he has to do is make it clear it doesn't apply to US residents, and the entire ruling becomes invalid. "Moral indignation is a standard strategy for endowing the idiot with dignity." Marshall McLuhan
Gromnir Posted February 10, 2017 Author Posted February 10, 2017 All he has to do is make it clear it doesn't apply to US residents, and the entire ruling becomes invalid. oh, well, if wod says so. *snort* HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
Gromnir Posted February 10, 2017 Author Posted February 10, 2017 this could go in alternative facts. trump tweeted regarding the appellate court decision. http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/factcheck/ap-fact-check-trump-selectively-quotes-from-a-legal-blog/ar-AAmOqj4?ocid=spartanntp mr. wittes response to trump alternative facts is classic: "#NotesFromUnderTrump, Day 22: So thanks, Mr. President, for endorsing my work. You've found the only sentence in it congenial to your views." HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
Wrath of Dagon Posted February 10, 2017 Posted February 10, 2017 (edited) Only would be valid criticism if Trump quoted out of context. Edit: And Wittes' tweet doesn't even characterize his own article correctly: https://www.lawfareblog.com/how-read-and-how-not-read-todays-9th-circuit-opinion Edited February 10, 2017 by Wrath of Dagon "Moral indignation is a standard strategy for endowing the idiot with dignity." Marshall McLuhan
Gromnir Posted February 10, 2017 Author Posted February 10, 2017 ... lordy "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
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