Pleading for Rogue buff once more

[the streaker]

Thanks for the links guys, and happy new year!

 

I'm on a fresh install so I'll have to replay through the whole game with WM1+2 to figure out the new skills, and do some test runs with results to convince you (and myself ) that rogue is still king.

It's not that I'm stubborn, I see the videos of druids doing 100+ dmg per swing. Druids are simple - you turn on beast mode, and left click an enemy (apologies in advance for the long post, but I feel the rogue has gone out of style and his full abilities ignored on this board as of late).

 

Rogues are complicated, but I'm a math guy and I love seeing how the numbers add up. Higher base accuracy, better +accuracy talents, higher perception (int is a dump stat, on druid it's vital), sabres enchanted with +accuracy and +crit, meaning crit chance sky-high. Sabre base damage of approx. 25, increased by crit (+1x), sneak (+0.5x), deathblows (+1x), savage (+0.2x), strength (conservatively +0.3x), for a total of about 3x base damage.

 

Now add on the weapon lash damage + heart of the storm (or equivalent) + slaying mod on to the base weapon damage. I don't remember enough about the game to work that out, so let's say it's total 40 base weapon damage x 3 = 120 on a crit (roughly, some gurus are going to bust me on some details here). Now you use the numerous rogue activated abilities that use "full attack" aka swing both weapons, as well as adding 25% to 50% additional damage boost. "Full attack" doesn't quite double your DPS, but it's damn close.

 

Note I'm not including any other specific boosts and buffs you can accumulate, cause it's too long of a list, but you bet I'll use them all to achieve the max damage per hit.

 

And by the way, you start out in stealth with another +150% backstab damage boost. Then after you've broken stealth, you just pop back into invisibility instantly, and attack right after for another +150% backstab damage bonus. Do that a few more times. Now add up all the damage you've done over the time it took you to do it... the DPS number is insane. And, needless to say, with bosses that are below "injured" it's obvious what happens when you put a rogue on him... 1000 dmg hits x 4.

 

I know eventually you'll run out of these activated abilities, but they'll last you enough to outperform the ~20s that the druid is doing basic attacks in shapeshift form. In the meantime you're constantly losing aggro due to invisibility, so you can actually stand and fight instead of getting boned by enemy attacks and spells. I also realize this is a lot of effort spent on one character, but the rogue needs to be the star of the party in order to shine, otherwise don't bother with her. She's like a racecar - no good for going to work and back everyday, but she can do the 1/4 mile in record time

Edited January 2, 2017 by the streaker

[Boeroer]

Cool you want to try.

 

You don't have to play through the whole game for that by the way. You could buy two hirelings in Gilded Vale's inn and then use the console to level up and get all the gear and enchantments you need. That way I test new build ideas before using then in a complete play through. Spares a lot of time.

 

If you want to do that and can't figure out how it works or can't find the right commands don't hesitate to ask. It's quite simple but sometimes the commands are a bit obscure and some internal game object names are spelled wrongly or differ completely from the ingame lore or item description. Example: Maefolc Skull is Giants Skull and The Hours of St Rumbalt is The Hours of St Rumbault and stuff like that. You can find the correct game object names for the console in the game object folder on your hard drive.

Edited January 2, 2017 by Boeroer

[JerekKruger]

I'll be interested in seeing the result, and if you do provide convincing evidence that the Rogue can do better single target damage than the Druid I will accept it of course. Good luck.

[Elric Galad]

Well, the point is that rogue should be way better than druid to convince me.

Druids has other cards in its play such as Relentless Storm and Form of the Delegan (8 stacking physical DR for party, fast cast and ultimately per encounter...).

 

 

And you should also compare Rogue with Ranger. After all, Druid DPS is limited in duration. (Reloading Spiritshift with the scepter requires attacking with it several times until it procs, so I usually prefer switching to spells at this point of the fight.)

 

Ranger (and pet) single target DPS is another big competitor. In my opinion, this is even more critical than comparing rogue with druid.

 

 

But good luck !

Edited January 2, 2017 by Elric Galad

[Dr <3]

Or if you want to do a full run just make a party with both rogue and druid and see wich you prefer over time ( since i'm quite sure druid will have better resaults you can even make rogue ad your main to have advantage of Story talents , like merciless hand ecc )

[the streaker]

Cool you want to try.

 

You don't have to play through the whole game for that by the way. You could buy two hirelings in Gilded Vale's inn and then use the console to level up and get all the gear and enchantments you need. That way I test new build ideas before using then in a complete play through. Spares a lot of time.

 

If you want to do that and can't figure out how it works or can't find the right commands don't hesitate to ask. It's quite simple but sometimes the commands are a bit obscure and some internal game object names are spelled wrongly or differ completely from the ingame lore or item description. Example: Maefolc Skull is Giants Skull and The Hours of St Rumbalt is The Hours of St Rumbault and stuff like that. You can find the correct game object names for the console in the game object folder on your hard drive.

 

OK thanks for the advice, might take a while regardless. In the meantime, here's a pic of my new lvl 4 rogue with generic fine sabres doing 73dmg on his first crit

[Boeroer]

Backstab + Sneak Attack + crit = +250% base damage. That is nice for a single hit of course.

 

Too bad a rogue can't backstab all the time.

[the streaker]

OK, I ran two builds (attached pdf) around in the tavern, they're not optimized, but the best I could do off the top of my head. Both builds crit all the peasants, so my numbers are only crits. The druid just runs into the fray and kills things. The rogue is accompanied by cipher who runs in first and uses starting focus to eyestrike and bind everyone in an AoE = instant sneak + deathblows on everyone. I did about 30 attacks and averaged the damage.

 

Rogue average swing damage is around 100. Too low, I have to look into what's not optimized, but that's for another time.

Druid average swing damage is around 140, and that new lvl8 storm spell adds another 50 (Jesus... talk about a buff).

 

So on a critical swing + storm strike, the latest druid spiritshifter is actually very impressive, I must admit.

 

In regards to attack speed, rogue with full attacks/zero recovery enchants is at 1s/attack. Side note: I can get quite a bit higher DPS with enchanted stillettos, since they swing so much faster - and with zero recovery, DPS is all about swing speed. Didn't test fully.

Druid is at 1.22s/attack, if info on this forum is correct.

 

The final and hardest part is accounting for the massive difference in accuracy. Comparing to a target of equal defense to the druid's accuracy, the druid never actually crits, and only hits half the time (50%hit/35%graze/15%miss). The rogue's spread is more like 40%crit/40%hit/20%graze against the same target. Furthermore, rogue doesn't actually depend on crits as much, because it's only one of a long list of additive damage multipliers. Druid's base damage is very high, so the difference between a graze and a crit is massive.

 

Using my very outdated and limited knowledge of graze/crit multipliers and how they combine with weapon+lash damage and other multipliers, I did some funny math and normalized both classes' DPS to account for grazes and hits, and believe it or not, the two classes are almost identical, with the rogue pulling ahead a bit (I bet you're rolling your eyes at that but my setup and data is there for you to interpret yourself).

 

TL;DR:

- Once per rest, for 13 seconds, a cat spiritshifter druid can go into cat flurry attack mode and wreck house.

- For 24 seconds, a cat spiritshifter and a sneaky rogue are surprisingly close in single-target DPS against a respectable enemy defense, assuming the spiritshifter uses lvl 8 avenging storm spell, and the rogue can use deathblows. I find the rogue pulls ahead due to the higher accuracy and quicker swinging weapon. DW Stiletto rogue might be even better.

- For fights lasting longer than 24 seconds, the rogue is the obvious winner.

- If fighting trash under-levelled mobs that the druid can reliably crit, he is deadly.

 

Other notes:

- the special abilities you can get from equipment (especially the WM stuff) is insane, and the druid loses it all during combat. E.g. Purgatory + executioner's hood restores tons of endurance to the rogue, executioner's hoot also does passive AoE frightened, Gwyn's band can be used to daze.

- Druid is easy and requires little setup. Go into beast mode and kill stuff. Rogue requires party support.

- Rogue has much higher interrupt and concentration

- Deflection and DR similar on both

 

druid vs rogue.pdf

Edited January 3, 2017 by the streaker

[peddroelm]

Druid + DAOM potion drank before shape shift should attack at 0 recovery (dual weapon wield and no armor penalty) . Two weapon fighting should also enable vulnerable attack at 0 recovery. It might not seem much but at 0.6666s attack speed (for 0 DEX cat form) it will add a bit before the lash multipliers.  (on the other hand druids don't get many perks)

 

At 0 recovery cat/Hiravias druid has huge DPS advantage since it has the attack speed of small weapons (almost twice as fast as the rest of the forms). The rest of the forms attack as at 1s attack speed at 0 DEX but the boar has a massive 20% wound (DR ignoring multiplicative component that is extra multiplied by Might Mod again) damage built in.  So cat form almost double the DPS of the other forms except extreme might boar that might even overtake it vs very high DR targets.

 

ONE CANNOT IGNORE LASH (multiplicative) damage in the comparison since druid & rogue cannot get the same amounts (druid can get way more) and at high damage numbers amount for a ton of extra damage. One can probably reach above 100% lash damage components on druid which pretty much doubles the DPS (requires party support /  chanter burn aura / depends on the various target's DR amounts vs the different damage types ) . 

 

And yes druid (NEEDs) / benefits way more from (party) accuracy buffs. As noted above their accuracy progression "sucks" compared to rogue, and due to the huge base damage , the (shape-shifting) druid benefits/suffers way more from the hit quality damage modifiers (*0 miss, -0.5 graze, 0 , 0.5 crit). In the "real world" druid will often lose a lot of potential DPS due to accuracy issues vs high deflection targets unless properly supported (ACCURACY BUFFS and deflection debuffs) which while critical to any type of damage user that uses deflection for hit checks is particularly effective for the shape-shifting druid. 

 

Druid can use savage attack while the rogue cannot (suppresses reckless damage bonus ). Very worthwhile on cat form AFTER you fix the accuracy issues.

 

Fast weapons are the way to go for max  DPS rogue (almost half attack speed duration while the base damage difference is way smaller ). Unique weapons do throw a bit of a spanner in the calculations (sharp sabre/ annihilating/ spirit of decay bittercut) but I'm pretty sure (dualing?) the wounding dagger should still end up comfortably on top vs most DR levels. (doubly so with obscene might rogue). Fast/small weapons make for a character that is more "responsive" in combat and can react faster to new developments on the battlefield.  Finishing blow is not enough to justify the slow, harder hitting 1s attack speed weapons. 

 

Optimal finishing blow use [ NEXT TO 0 OVERKILL DAMAGE] requires MODS to display the numeric remaining hitpoints of enemies and pocket calculator / app to calculate [minimal] finish blow damage per hit based on the remaining target hit-points (and rogue skills/equipment/active buffs) EVERY time the target sustains any damage.

Game doesn't show even max enemy hit-points in game (bestiary/meta-knowledge) and doesn't even display CORRECTLY normal attack's damage range most of the time (LYING CHARACTER SCREEN), let alone finishing blow's damage range vs targets (COULD MAYBE MODDED TO DISPLAY SELECTED SKILL DAMAGE RANGE FOR BOTH WEAPONS ON HOVER OVER TARGET (considering the variable amounts of hitpoint loss after the first hand hit)). (3 damage ranges for first hand (graze, normal,crit) and 3 damage rages (graze,hit,crit)  for the second hand for EVERY first hand damage range; 12 damage ranges in total; that hover-box damage range simulator for dual wield finishing blow would cover half the screen ) .

 

As it stands (designed ?) finishing blow is most of the time just a tool for massive overkill and meaningless high combat log damage numbers. (it will be either activating too early doing next to no multiplicative damage and not killing the target OR way too late - massive meaningless overkill and waste of the ability when auto attack alone would've finished the job). The game currently doesn't provide anywhere nearly enough tools to allow close to optimal use of the ability and judging by the ability description card (bogus) shows exactly how much the developers care about the matter.

Edited January 3, 2017 by peddroelm

[Dr <3]

Some notes, i will write more detail when i have time:

- you could optimize more your druid build taking away vulnerable attacks and superior deflection and adding gallant focus (+4 accuracy) and apprentice sneack attack.

- you forgot to use " the other half" of druid: if you cast dangleman form before the fight for example you can reach good dr and immunity to Stuck, a simple avenging storm at the start of the fight will boost your survivability far over the rogue ( stunned enemies do not hit you); at the same time enable sneack attack ( 15% of 47-74 is about 10 DMG in mean, more than activating vulnerable attack) and finally solve your accuracy issue ( stunned enemies got -30 to deflecion so is not hard to crit anymore). But you can not try this in the tavern since everyone istanly dies thoug

Edited January 3, 2017 by Dr <3

[Elric Galad]

Dangleman = hanging superhero

OR

Dangleman = Form of the Delemgan ?

[Boeroer]

Rofl

 

The encounter I like best for testing builds in a realistic environment are the ogres in front of the Elmshore cave. They hit very hard - so you can see if your defenses are good enough. They don't have too high defenses, so you don't need to debuff all the time like you would do against other bouty groups. They have a ton of endurance and you can do a lot of attacks, collecting a lot of data. They don't have too fancy resistances or immunities. They have around 10 DR which is not too high and not too low.

And they are slow - meaning you can test kiting without too much stress.

 

Usually, when a build can solo those without splitting he can solo the whole game.

 

I never managed to beat those guys with dps melee rogues, dps melee rangers and dps melee fighters without kiting or pulling. They are just too tough and hit too hard. But if you use a tank for distraction who eats all the plague of insects then you can have great data while attacking them.

 

Did the druid have the Wildstrike Belt by the way? It adds another lash.

 

I would agree that a boar druid has better DPS throughout the game than the cat. His wounding is passive while the cat has only one flurry per rest the boar will always cause wounds.

 

You can also count Returning + Relentless Storm. The forst per encountet. Sure, it is a multiple target spell. But it ALSO damages your priority target. Nature's Terror is also a great spell while shifted. The surrounding enemies will be terrified. This helps with survival, too. And Nature's Terror adds shock damage without having to stop swinging.

 

You don't need to drink a potion to get low recovery. Put on sanguine plate and let the enemy crit you. Then shift. Frenzy will nearly last as long as the shifting.

[peddroelm]

...I would agree that a boar druid has better DPS throughout the game than the cat. His wounding is passive while the cat has only one flurry per rest the boar will always cause wounds...

Don't forget the cat attacks about twice as fast at 0 recovery (DAOM potion) (same damage per hit - ignoring the wounding lash). 0.6666 seconds between attacks and boar 1 second between attacks (0 DEX). Boar needs high might and very high target DR to close that significant damage gap.

Edited January 3, 2017 by peddroelm

[Elric Galad]

Cat has a better base attack speed (x1.5, it is huge) AND a per rest speed increase.

[peddroelm]

The /per rest speed increase is pretty ****ty. Completely nullified by DOAM (can't go bellow 0 recovery) and ...is shot duration ONCE per rest. Boar's massive  DR ignoring, wounding lash is on all the time. Who balances these things ?! 

Edited January 3, 2017 by peddroelm

[Dr <3]

Also the mundane Trolls of Black Meadows are good targets for damage test, they are really good punchbags.

I'm a huge fan of boar druid, but have to admit that probably late game cat is a bit better, at least because more hits means also more avenging storm procs, the wounding of the boar can't stand all that bonus damage.

 

Edit: without counting the storm instead i never felt much difference between the two. And if there is a Priest to cast Champions boon around i bet that boar becomes better, never tested thougt

Edited January 3, 2017 by Dr <3

[Dr <3]

The /per rest speed increase is pretty ****ty. Completely nullified by DOAM (can't go bellow 0 recovery) and ...is shot duration ONCE per rest. Boar's massive DR ignoring, wounding lash is on all the time. Who balances these things ?!

The balance is:

cat base faster attack +/- equals boar wounding.

Cat frenzy=boar regeneration=uselessness

 

The real "problem" if you want to find one is that the other shapeshift form pale in comparison, expecially bear. Wolf and stag would be strong if the takedown/massacre would have been per encounter instead then per rest, but this is not going to be modifyed.

Edited January 3, 2017 by Dr <3

[Boeroer]

Another reason why I like the sanguine plate on a boar druid.

 

The boar also has a passive regeneration effect when shifted. Sure, it's not that big and doesn't scale with level, but together with Shod-in-Faith, Vet. Recovery and max healing received bonus from camping it adds up pretty nicely and makes you more sturdy while shifted.

 

I guess I just like passives.

Edited January 3, 2017 by Boeroer

[MaxQuest]

So my suggestions are below. [...]

The idea is that low level abilities are quite OK after patch 3.03. I'm still pleading for a few tweaks, but nothing big.

 

I yet again agree with you that rogue needs some minor tweaks. Many times I was considering taking a rogue in party, and every time he was denied a spot, simply because there was some other class that could do the same job plus be more versatile.

 

On PotD, as a rule of mine I use: every of the glassier companions should have at least some emergency hard crowd-control ability to stop his other mate from being swarmed. Ciphers, Wizard, Priests, even Druids have it. And they all can dish out considerable amount of damage. Hard CC is the thing that rogue lack for me.

 

This leads to:

- make Sap available earlier (for example starting from lvl 5 or 7) because that stun is needed.

- buff Smoke Cloud. Add a stronger cc to it. E.g. instead of Distraction, let it inflict a random of [Distraction, Blind, Confusion] rolled for each affected enemy separately.

- using Coordinated Positioning could provide a short duration buff to rogue's reflex and deflection (let's say +10 for 8s or +15 for 5s)

 

Plus I strongly agree on the suggested:

 

1. Deep Wounds : Deep Wounds should stack with themseves. Currently, its damages are very low, escpecially at high levels.

2. Feign Death : The ultimate Rogue ability, yeah. 10s of auto-incapacitation for an offensive class is not good.

3. Shadowing Beyond 1 per encounter (breaking on attack made/spell cast). And I guess wouldn't hurt: while invisible take 50% less damage from AoEs.

4. Give small, concealable weapons like daggers and stilettos +200% bonus damage when backstabbing (* instead of the usual +150%). Atm backstabbing works best with hard hitting, slow weapons because the number of attacks is so limited.

 

While I specifically disagree on:

 

Health : Buffed to Endurance x 5.

Note: imho rogue always was fragile. These are his usual trademarks: fragile, bursty, sneaky, evasive, and with strong single target control. So there should be other means to increase his survivability, either via better evasion or better control. As for 5 hp/end factor, I would welcome it on a chanter instead.

Edited January 3, 2017 by MaxQuest

[Boeroer]

While thinking about great single target DPS: it might be that the cipher is also better than the rogue at higher levels. Think about it:

 

- +40% base damage via soul whip + biting whip without any afflictions etc.

 

- +20% Savage Attack

 

- +50% attack speed via Time Parasite, lasts a long time

 

- Soul Ignition is not super great, but good single target damage when burn DR is low.

 

- Recall Agony. Few use it, but it's a powerful multiplicative raw damage "lash" against single targets. A bit like wounding.

 

- Body Attunement lowers the enemies DR

 

- Disintegration provides a lot of single target damage

 

Plus some nice ACC and defense buffs and disables. What do you think?

[Livegood118]

While thinking about great single target DPS: it might be that the cipher is also better than the rogue at higher levels. Think about it:

 

- +40% base damage via soul whip + biting whip without any afflictions etc.

 

- +20% Savage Attack

 

- +50% attack speed via Time Parasite, lasts a long time

 

- Soul Ignition is not super great, but good single target damage when burn DR is low.

 

- Recall Agony. Few use it, but it's a powerful multiplicative raw damage "lash" against single targets. A bit like wounding.

 

- Body Attunement lowers the enemies DR

 

- Disintegration provides a lot of single target damage

 

Plus some nice ACC and defense buffs and disables. What do you think?

 

100% agree

 

Cipher trades +5 accuracy for +5 deflection vs Rogue in the beginning of the game. Rogue gets some nice passive stuff like hits to crits, sneak attack/deathblows and reckless assault but most on use abilities stink whereas Cipher can compensate for loss of accuracy with tactical meld and other accuracy buffs as well as landing huge disables with a crazy set of amazing on use abilities. Cipher brings Time Parasite, Disintegration, Amplified Wave, Ringleader, Whisper of Treason etc ... to the table. Shadowing Beyond and Escape, which allow the Rogue to avoid aggro, don't really compare to the hard CC achievable by the Cipher which negates the need to avoid aggro in the first place.

 

I strongly suspect that Time Parasite's bonus to Attack speed (which, let's not forget, is multiplicative with other sources of +attack speed) is better than the  benefits received from 60% extra base damage (Deathblows + 10% of sneak attack). 60% extra base damage at the end of the day will only add 8.4 – 12 damage. 

 

I'd take a melee cipher over a rogue any day of the week if we were talking about pure power.

 

Edit: forgot Cipher can take apprentice sneak, which really means the sneak attack disparity is 55% vs 100%.

Edited January 3, 2017 by Livegood118

[Livegood118]

I mean, at high levels the Cipher can also go 100% full YOLO 2H cut-em-down with no repercussions because of Defensive Mindweb so at that stage you might as well just throw CON and RES out the window as long as you've got a sword and board tank in the party. Just have an Arquebus on quickswitch to get that initial focus for it.

[Elric Galad]

 

So my suggestions are below. [...]

The idea is that low level abilities are quite OK after patch 3.03. I'm still pleading for a few tweaks, but nothing big.

I yet again agree with you that rogue needs some minor tweaks. Many times I was considering taking a rogue in party, and every time he was denied a spot, simply because there was some other class that could do the same job plus be more versatile.

 

On PotD, as a rule of mine I use: every of the glassier companions should have at least some emergency hard crowd-control ability to stop his other mate from being swarmed. Ciphers, Wizard, Priests, even Druids have it. And they all can dish out considerable amount of damage. Hard CC is the thing that rogue lack for me.

 

This leads to:

- make Sap available earlier (for example starting from lvl 5 or 7) because that stun is needed.

- buff Smoke Cloud. Add a stronger cc to it. E.g. instead of Distraction, let it inflict a random of [Distraction, Blind, Confusion] rolled for each affected enemy separately.

- using Coordinated Positioning could provide a short duration buff to rogue's reflex and deflection (let's say +10 for 8s or +15 for 5s)

 

Plus I strongly agree on the suggested:

 

[...]

 

While I specifically disagree on:

 

Health : Buffed to Endurance x 5.

Note: imho rogue always was fragile. These are his usual trademarks: fragile, bursty, sneaky, evasive, and with strong single target control. So there should be other means to increase his survivability, either via better evasion or better control. As for 5 hp/end factor, I would welcome it on a chanter instead.

Good suggestions here.

 

I would argue about Rogue Health that Health is not meant to increase survivability in battles (12hp/lvl and 15 base Def should stay as there are) but through several battles.

 

This won't really help rogue's tanking.

 

It is more for day to day convenience for rogue player than a true combat buff for me.

But you might disagree of course

 

And Endurance×5 on chanter would certainly be suitable !

Edited January 3, 2017 by Elric Galad

[fiddlesticks]

I don't consider Time Parasite to be all that great. By the time you get it, you'll also have the resources to chug DAoM potions all day, and you need to actually build up Focus before you're able to use it. Tactical Meld is nice but once again requires Focus and somewhat limits your flexibility. Body Attunement is very solid but benefits the Rogue in your team just as much as the Cipher.

 

I'm also not sure comparing endgame values is all that meaningful. Any decently built party will stomp all over the higher levels because you get access to so many powerful abilities. Whether you want to win a fight with Avenging Storm + Shapeshift, a dual-wielding Rogue, or something entirely different like a Wizard spamming Freezing Rake is more of a personal preference thing. The hardest fights usually come when you enter an area at a lower level and with weaker equipment than you're supposed to, but that's not something you can easily account for in a theoretical test.

 

Edit: Just to be clear, I do consider the Rogue to be a bit weaker than other classes, but that's not because his single-target damage is disapointing so much as that all other damage dealers offer more flexibility. Fighters and Monks are more durable, Rangers have a surprising number of decent CC abilities, and Ciphers get all of their powers on top of the solid physical attacks. As such, I'm also not sure simply buffing the Rogue's damage output will fix the issue. I'd rather see his role expanded a bit, perhaps with a greater focus on fighting dirty and fooling opponents.

Edited January 3, 2017 by fiddlesticks

[MaxQuest]

While thinking about great single target DPS: it might be that the cipher is also better than the rogue at higher levels. [...]

 

Plus some nice ACC and defense buffs and disables. What do you think?

Ehehe, that's why I always had two ciphers in my party. And the sole reason why I wasn't taking a 3rd one is because I want to experiment with other classes too

 

 

 

It is more for day to day convenience for rogue player than a true combat buff for me.

But you might disagree of course :whistle:

I can't disagree with a logically true statement

I'd just look for the convenience in tweaking rogue's other facets, like elusiveness or hard-cc.

 

I can't help, but imagine the rogue being a swindler, a juggler, an acrobat, a cheat. He lives on the edge. And he's not buff. Agility and tricks up his sleeve are what make it for him.

Edited January 3, 2017 by MaxQuest