BruceVC Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 http://edition.cnn.com/2016/12/02/opinions/italy-referendum-preview/index.html http://www.dw.com/en/trumps-shadow-looms-over-austrian-election/a-36594430 NIgel Farage claims the year 2016 is the year that will be remembered as the " end of the EU " He attributes Brexit and the Trump victory as irrefutable proof that " the forces of global nationalism are inexorable, implacable and inevitable " I think he is wrong but the elections in Austria and Italy will be interesting to see how much influence his type of ideology has in the post Trump and post Brexit world These elections are symbolically very important to the EU 1 "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
licketysplit Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 (edited) I wish I knew more about this topic, but I think he's right in implying we live in a time of immediate, and highly reactive global politics. It's not unreasonable to think Trump's victory in the US will embolden the right in Europe. -edit for clarity. Edited December 3, 2016 by licketysplit 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted December 3, 2016 Author Share Posted December 3, 2016 I wish I knew more about this topic, but I think he's right in implying we live in a time of global politics. It's not unreasonable to think Trump's victory in the US will embolden the right in Europe. I dont generally agree with Farage because I see the EU as a good system of creating economic union and prosperity but he makes very convincing arguments and I would argue many people on this forum would support his views He is not some kind of zealot and he has been right around certain predictions so maybe he will be right about the demise of the EU? "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted December 3, 2016 Author Share Posted December 3, 2016 I wish I knew more about this topic, but I think he's right in implying we live in a time of global politics. It's not unreasonable to think Trump's victory in the US will embolden the right in Europe. I forgot to actually respond to what you asked ..my bad These elections tomorrow are significant because they will be a benchmark to see how much political support nationalism and right wing politics has in the EU\ So lets say the right wing Austrian party wins and the Italian PM loses ....this will be a huge setback for the future of the EU and will suggest where the French election is going \ "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imaenoon Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 I think the EU should be more responsive to the member nations. The idea of the EU is good, but the execution has stripped member nations of the autonomy that is the definition of 'nation.' The smaller members can be railroaded by the larger members, but the larger members are stuck trying to address weaknesses in individual member banks. The euro is at once hostage to problems in weaker nations and those nations can't use monetary policy in dealing with their own individual problems. I'm not rooting for the EU to fail. I'm not rooting for it to succeed. I'm definitely rooting for Europe, but the EU is a different story. One where Germany basically doesn't bully members and where shady accounting doesn't keep propping up member nations would be great. One where Brussels and its massive bureaucracy dictates the rules at the expense of the sovereignty of the members is not good. I feel cold as a razor blade, tight as a tourniquet, dry... as a funeral... drum... as it were... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoonDing Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 "global nationalism" make Pangaea great again 3 The ending of the words is ALMSIVI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pidesco Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 It's certainly the year racism and xenophobia came back to the fore. Nationalism with air quotes. "My hovercraft is full of eels!" - Hungarian touristI am Dan Quayle of the Romans.I want to tattoo a map of the Netherlands on my nether lands.Heja Sverige!!Everyone should cuffawkle more.The wrench is your friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmp10 Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Bit off topic but what it is with the Trump obsession in the media? I can't watch any news lately without being bombarded with everything he does. "Trump calls, Trump eats, Trump speaks, Trump nominates." There was nothing even remotely like this with Obama. Reminds me that old joke about Lenin and being afraid to open a can of spam. It's like all news suddenly became reality TV. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted December 4, 2016 Author Share Posted December 4, 2016 (edited) It's certainly the year racism and xenophobia came back to the fore. Nationalism with air quotes. Oh I meant to tell you, our predictions about the USA election and basically getting the outcome completely wrong must not be seen as a reflection on the failure of our views on SJ. I am just using the words "us " to include anyone who supported Hilary because of the view they considered Trump offensive and utterly unpresidential volo said to me on another thread " I was wrong about Clinton ". But I wasnt wrong about Clinton, the word " wrong " actually trivializes the election and the unexpected results. You can use that word if you made a bad call after critical thinking about something But my issues with Trump were not just mine but part of what the majority of people in the USA thought, most Republicans thought Trump would lose Many people I know who are Republican supporters didnt even watch the election because they assumed Clinton would win So what does this tell us? This election was an anomaly and therefore unpredictable because something unprecedented but necessary happened. The data was inconsistent and misleading .... I cant hold myself responsible for that I have already taken some constructive lessons from this Edited December 4, 2016 by BruceVC "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
licketysplit Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Well it appears Austria went to a lefty PM. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoraptor Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 President. And it's a largely symbolic position too, with theoretical but not much practical power. Weirdly bipolar media of it though, +/- 1.3% seems to be a landslide and they've gone from the end of western civilisation being heralded by the result to the end of fascism in our time over the course of a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PK htiw klaw eriF Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 So what they're saying is that fascism is western civilization? "Akiva Goldsman and Alex Kurtzman run the 21st century version of MK ULTRA." - majestic "you're a damned filthy lying robot and you deserve to die and burn in hell." - Bartimaeus "Without individual thinking you can't notice the plot holes." - InsaneCommander "Just feed off the suffering of gamers." - Malcador "You are calling my taste crap." -Hurlshort "thankfully it seems like the creators like Hungary less this time around." - Sarex "Don't forget the wakame, dumbass" -Keyrock "Are you trolling or just being inadvertently nonsensical?' -Pidesco "we have already been forced to admit you are at least human" - uuuhhii "I refuse to buy from non-woke businesses" - HoonDing "feral camels are now considered a pest" - Gorth "Melkathi is known to be an overly critical grumpy person" - Melkathi "Oddly enough Sanderson was a lot more direct despite being a Mormon" - Zoraptor "I found it greatly disturbing to scroll through my cartoon's halfing selection of genitalias." - Wormerine "I love cheese despite the pain and carnage." - ShadySands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 "It's certainly the year racism and xenophobia came back to the fore. Nationalism with air quotes." Youi still spamming that nonsense? That's not why Trump and Brexit won. If any side is racist, btw, it is the other side. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoonDing Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Nobody believed Gopher was a serious candidate. Just look at him. The ending of the words is ALMSIVI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pidesco Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 "It's certainly the year racism and xenophobia came back to the fore. Nationalism with air quotes." Youi still spamming that nonsense? That's not why Trump and Brexit won. If any side is racist, btw, it is the other side. http://electionado.com/canvas/1479173071893 2 "My hovercraft is full of eels!" - Hungarian touristI am Dan Quayle of the Romans.I want to tattoo a map of the Netherlands on my nether lands.Heja Sverige!!Everyone should cuffawkle more.The wrench is your friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
licketysplit Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Renzi just lost in Italy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoonDing Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Guess the alt right tards who know absolutely nothing about Italy or what this election is about, are going to celebrate. The ending of the words is ALMSIVI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
licketysplit Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Guess the alt right tards who know absolutely nothing about Italy or what this election is about, are going to celebrate. *checks Twitter* Yep, that's what's happening, lol. I await political analysis from spheres outside social media to understand the implications, but some of the Merican right will align with this victory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoonDing Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 What's ironic is that current Italian constitution actually prohibits referendums on international treaties. And with current status quo, changing constitution would take a couple of centuries. I'd not have trusted Renzi either, though. Just look at him. The ending of the words is ALMSIVI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted December 5, 2016 Author Share Posted December 5, 2016 (edited) What's ironic is that current Italian constitution actually prohibits referendums on international treaties. And with current status quo, changing constitution would take a couple of centuries. I'd not have trusted Renzi either, though. Just look at him. Renzi had the best interests of Italy in mind, he was trying to restructure the bloated and impotent levels of government bureaucracy Italy is one of the PIGS countries who has not managed there own economy effectively, it gets tiresome and irritating that the old Europe countries seem incapable to make the relevant and necessary guts in government spending and government structure that every other EU country has been able to maintain Italy now will continue with austerity because the Italian parliament refuses really to care about its citizens future Edited December 5, 2016 by BruceVC "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoraptor Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 Good day for resignations, we've just lost our PM to [reasons] as well. So what they're saying is that fascism is western civilization? Well, technically they wouldn't be far off given how much western civilisation owes the Romans. I'm still in lol mood over the world not ending when Trump won despite the media thinking it would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 I think it is HILARIOUS that the west is the one usualkly being accused of 'racism' and the like yet the West is pretty much the (only) part of the world that accepts people into their countries that don't necessarily look like them. 1 DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrath of Dagon Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 Yes, and US accepts 1/5 of all world migrants. "Moral indignation is a standard strategy for endowing the idiot with dignity." Marshall McLuhan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted December 5, 2016 Author Share Posted December 5, 2016 "It's certainly the year racism and xenophobia came back to the fore. Nationalism with air quotes." Youi still spamming that nonsense? That's not why Trump and Brexit won. If any side is racist, btw, it is the other side. http://electionado.com/canvas/1479173071893 Another guy blacksplaining white working class. It's like me writing an essay "the third trimester and what to expect". For a while I considered you a bigot because you said several very offensive things and you didn't seem to understand why what you said was unacceptable But you haven't said anything for a while that was offensive ( calling me names is irrelevant ) so someone spoke to you and I think you doing very well so well done 1 "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meshugger Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 Trump is the natural result of identity politics. When you foster a culture of different groups being oppressed due to different -isms, why are you surprised if the majority group suddenly elect someone on these very premises? You reap what you sow, so be thankful that this ideological monster of yours was stopped by loudmouth real-estate builder with a tacky sense aesthetics and not the next Caesar. I can't find the research now, but i read recently that 36% of swedes do not know of anything that characterizes Sweden as swedish, which sounds borderline hysterical. A lot more swedes are in a dire need to travel further outside their bordes to understand how unique they are; And no, getting drunk on the cruise to the Aaland islands doesn't count. "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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