I wasn't replying to you at all. My comment was addressed to elcoderdude.

And my original complaint was addressed at Worblehat.

Personally, I would prefer that members of the forum avoid policing the forums. It doesn't help any and engenders bad feelings. If you have issues with a person, take it up with them personally, not in a public forum. If you have really serious issues with a post, use the report button. The forum has moderators after all.

 

As to expressing anger in these forums, I see that as entirely valid (as long no names are called and reasonable propriety is observed). I'm not a big fan of looking at the positive side of every issue - my experience is that it tends to mask real problems that need to be addressed.

 

Mind you, it's not as though OBS have a high hit rate with responding to posts - currently less than 1 in 10. So what's the value in posting a metric tonne of information if you have little to no expectation that OBS will even have the curtesy to acknowledge the post - let alone actually fix the bug? There's a limit to how much "community support" can really do here (other than making us all - misguidedly - feel good that we're doing something).

Glad to hear you don't think posts should be personal -- I appreciate that, since you've directed several at me, and made two sarcastic posts on my latest thread.

 

The Obsidian developers don't show up on many threads, so when they do -- like on this thread -- it behooves us all to be as helpful as possible. That's what I'm saying.

 

The Paizo Pathfinder Adventure Card Game forum has a marvelous camaraderie. We're not just consumers, we're contributors. It'd be cool if we could foster the same spirit here.

Personally, I would prefer that members of the forum avoid policing the forums. It doesn't help any and engenders bad feelings. If you have issues with a person, take it up with them personally, not in a public forum. If you have really serious issues with a post, use the report button. The forum has moderators after all.

You can also PM forum moderators if you're not sure if something should be reported or not.

 

As to expressing anger in these forums, I see that as entirely valid (as long no names are called and reasonable propriety is observed). I'm not a big fan of looking at the positive side of every issue - my experience is that it tends to mask real problems that need to be addressed.

I think some frustration is understandable; it's seen in all forums I've been a part of when bugs have been encountered.

 

Mind you, it's not as though OBS have a high hit rate with responding to posts - currently less than 1 in 10. So what's the value in posting a metric tonne of information if you have little to no expectation that OBS will even have the curtesy to acknowledge the post - let alone actually fix the bug? There's a limit to how much "community support" can really do here (other than making us all - misguidedly - feel good that we're doing something).

As I understand it the PACG ap has ten people on the team and only two that I've seen checking the forums - at least to post. We don't know if anyone has logged issues without posting. With a patch pending the team may be focusing on getting the patch out rather than posting here.

 

I think we can at best just post as much information about bugs we encounter and wait for Obsidian to check the threads and fix the issues.

Not quite what I meant by "personal". Directed at you isn't the same as "personal" . Not sure that I agree with your approach to "visitations from above", my belief is that the roles are reversed: OBS should be darn grateful that we collect and share as much data as we do and for such scant return on our investment. Instead, they largely fail to acknowledge our posts, let alone fix the bugs.

 

I don't come to this forum for "camaraderie", I have no interest in a "community" that sets the terms of its membership or requires me to be a "good boy" and not complain: I come here to report issues with a (dwindling) expectation that something good (in terms of the game) will come of my efforts.

 

Personally, I would prefer that members of the forum avoid policing the forums. It doesn't help any and engenders bad feelings. If you have issues with a person, take it up with them personally, not in a public forum. If you have really serious issues with a post, use the report button. The forum has moderators after all.

You can also PM forum moderators if you're not sure if something should be reported or not.

 

Good call!

 

 

As to expressing anger in these forums, I see that as entirely valid (as long no names are called and reasonable propriety is observed). I'm not a big fan of looking at the positive side of every issue - my experience is that it tends to mask real problems that need to be addressed.

I think some frustration is understandable; it's seen in all forums I've been a part of when bugs have been encountered.

 

Indeed.

 

 

Mind you, it's not as though OBS have a high hit rate with responding to posts - currently less than 1 in 10. So what's the value in posting a metric tonne of information if you have little to no expectation that OBS will even have the curtesy to acknowledge the post - let alone actually fix the bug? There's a limit to how much "community support" can really do here (other than making us all - misguidedly - feel good that we're doing something).

As I understand it the PACG ap has ten people on the team and only two that I've seen checking the forums - at least to post. We don't know if anyone has logged issues without posting. With a patch pending the team may be focusing on getting the patch out rather than posting here.

 

I think we can at best just post as much information about bugs we encounter and wait for Obsidian to check the threads and fix the issues.

 

I can assure you that people do post without using the forum - I've done it myself (and received no response, so I post here so at least others can get a head's up). I sure hope that OBS are up to their collective necks in fixing bugs (not creating more bug-riddled features), otherwise there is no excuse for their lack of presence on the forum.

The Paizo Pathfinder Adventure Card Game forum has a marvelous camaraderie. We're not just consumers, we're contributors. It'd be cool if we could foster the same spirit here.

Thats been my take on things as well.  The Pathfinder world had some of the nicest, most laid-back players compared to other RPGs or CCGs.  Sometimes it gets lively debating the rules, but frankly, those arguments can usually go either way without drastically changing how enjoyable the game can be.

 

As far as the Tech Support area goes, yes, of course it's not the poster's responsibility to be an unpaid QA intern.  But the reality remains that there will always be a lag between discovery and patch.  The more we can do to describe and isolate the issue, the better the chance of reducing patch lag, and the better the chance of finding workarounds in the meantime.  Users aren't playing forum cop just to ensure proper bug reports get filed; chances are, they're responding because they actually care.

 

That's the camaraderie and community spirit @elcoderdude is talking about.  Nobody has to care, but some do.  The community doesn't release patches, but there's no reason it can't help find interim ways for users to overcome or avoid the bugs that make the app unenjoyable.

Not sure that I agree with your approach to "visitations from above", my belief is that the roles are reversed: OBS should be darn grateful that we collect and share as much data as we do and for such scant return on our investment.

And you are certainly entitled to feel that way. My experience on this forum (and Interplay and Black Isle Studios previously) is that there are points were the Devs have to choose between being responsive to the community and dealing with issues that have been identified (and trying to replicate those that have not).

 

I'm sure they are grateful for the posts by users here, whether they have the time to say it for each post or not. Or even to acknowledge they've logged a bug for the I reports/testing. Your mileage may vary, of course.

 

I have no interest in a "community" that sets the terms of its membership or requires me to be a "good boy" and not complain

There is nothing in the forum rules that says you can't complain. We are only asked to not post material that is abusive, defamatory, libelous, harassing, hateful, obscene, profane, vulgar, or illicit; from spamming, from posting discriminatory remarks or from impersonating a real person (and a few other provisions)

 

I believe that leaves plenty of room to register complaints, to be negative over development of the game or speed of fixes.

OK, I shall continue as I have then. I certainly have no intention of exceeding the parameters that you describe! I may be brusque on occasion(s), but I try to avoid downright rudeness.

 

And yes, believe it or not, I have no personal animosity toward OBS Devs: I'm sure that they are doing the best that they can with the resources that they have available. Which is why I criticise, in the hope that it gives them ammunition to use in discussions with the layer of OBS management the we have zero access to. You know, the bean-counters who can hide away from the consequences of decisions by not being in the front line so that their decisions are "strategic and for the good of the company" (read "short-term bottom line").

 

Still, that's enough of a thread de-rail. Back to logging bugs and complaining

Edited December 5, 20169 yr by mccrispy

 

The Paizo Pathfinder Adventure Card Game forum has a marvelous camaraderie. We're not just consumers, we're contributors. It'd be cool if we could foster the same spirit here.

Thats been my take on things as well.  The Pathfinder world had some of the nicest, most laid-back players compared to other RPGs or CCGs.  Sometimes it gets lively debating the rules, but frankly, those arguments can usually go either way without drastically changing how enjoyable the game can be.

 

As far as the Tech Support area goes, yes, of course it's not the poster's responsibility to be an unpaid QA intern.  But the reality remains that there will always be a lag between discovery and patch.  The more we can do to describe and isolate the issue, the better the chance of reducing patch lag, and the better the chance of finding workarounds in the meantime.  Users aren't playing forum cop just to ensure proper bug reports get filed; chances are, they're responding because they actually care.

 

That's the camaraderie and community spirit @elcoderdude is talking about.  Nobody has to care, but some do.  The community doesn't release patches, but there's no reason it can't help find interim ways for users to overcome or avoid the bugs that make the app unenjoyable.

 

Thanks for grokking me, EG. The card gamers, at least, who come to these boards bring a passion for these games (card and digital). We aren't buying appliances here. We might as well help each other enjoy this pastime, which is, after all, fun.

OK, I thought we were done with this. Apparently not. And who is snarking now eh? "the card gamers, at least" WTF does that mean? Some sort of elite cadre of players that excludes certain people by sly inference? I call BS on that! Great way to foster the spirit  of camaraderie that you wish to engender. Not! (FWiW, I have a complete first printing copy of PACG and am - mainly - a player of physical board games, can I please join your elite group, can I? can I? pretty please? Pah!)

We're done with it, as long as you have the last word, eh?

 

Not sure why it matters to you, since you don't want "camaraderie".

 

I won't try to teach you about community. The dwarves are for the dwarves.

It appears this thread has run its course; the issue has been reported for the developers to see and if new players encounter it they can see this on a search and then start a new thread to provide more information on how they encountered it.