The US Election, Part XI

[Fighter]

 

When the left protested against war, ending mass surveillance, globalism and for free speech one could easily understand their grievances.

 

Now it requires university degree to understand.

Not at all, what dont you understand about these protests?  I can explain anything you are unsure about ( well hopefully anything )

 

 

Explain why they burn their own flag.

[Ben No.3]

 

 

 

 

When the left protested against war, ending mass surveillance, globalism and for free speech one could easily understand their grievances.

 

Now it requires university degree to understand.

Not at all, what dont you understand about these protests? I can explain anything you are unsure about ( well hopefully anything )

Explain why they burn their own flag.

Symbolism! Burning a flag, especially in a patriotic country like the US, is a extremely powerful symbol that catches attention.

[BruceVC]

It will die down in a week.

 

It doesn't take much effort to see that the violence and aggression, while present in both camps, is significantly stronger from the liberal corner. Its not a surprise, they media has been convincing them for years that they're the sole purveyors of progress and morality. When you start to believe your own bull**** that way its only a question of time when the torches and pitchforks will come out.

 

The irony is that Trump is probably not even their genuine enemy. Apart from the provocative election campaign strategy I don't see him making it an implicit or explicit goal to oppress women, minorities etc. Like a good businessman he identified the market and sold himself as a product but the fact that they "bought" him doesn't mean they'll actually "get" him.

 

Obama was supposed to be this great herald of peace and equality (pre-emptive Nobel strike lol) but he basically continued every warmongering policy of his predecessors and the inequality gap just widened. There's no reason to believe that Trump will be much different.

You raise some valid points which surprises me because I normally think of you as " anti-USA "  and therefore I am use to your views on the US being negative and not being constructive 

 

But yes I agree, Trump is not the real enemy because most of his offensive and divisive comments were more a political strategy to gain support and solidify his support base 

 

He is a good salesman and he also knows how to read social trends and what certain people in the US want or what worries them. So he constructed a political campaign that allowed him to defeat the established  Republican institutions but also defeat  the incumbent Democrats 

 

The consequences  to his political  strategy is he now has to deal with certain perceived and real negative views people have of him 

[BruceVC]

 

 

When the left protested against war, ending mass surveillance, globalism and for free speech one could easily understand their grievances.

 

Now it requires university degree to understand.

Not at all, what dont you understand about these protests?  I can explain anything you are unsure about ( well hopefully anything )

 

 

Explain why they burn their own flag.

 

I always find the burning of any flag as an unhelpful development. But the burning of  a flag by the citizens of  a particular country  of that country is more contemptuous, pointless  and divisive than the protestors realize

 

We know throughout the world the burning of another country's flag is suppose to be about the rejection of that country's ideology, policies and influence. For example the constant  burning of the US  flag in Iran before the Nuclear negotiations was reached  was a statement highlighting the dislike of the USA

 

But now in these protests we seeing US  citizens burning their own flag, this is suppose to be about  a rejection of Trump but by burning the US  flag they actually unintentionally  saying " we reject the policies, ideology and views of the USA " 

 

So in other words they are driven  by real and understandable   emotions but they have a  misunderstanding of the electoral result ....and this misunderstanding manifests in certain outcomes like the burning of the US  flag which is a pointless and unreasonable thing to do 

[Barothmuk]

Explain why they burn their own flag.

It's their flag.

[Keyrock]

I have to say I'm getting much joy out of watching protesters making petitions to the electoral college to elect Hillary.  If the left wingers put this much effort into actually voting they wouldn't have this problem.  But hey, keep deflecting the blame, dems who didn't vote, surely it wasn't YOUR fault, right?

[Fighter]

 

Explain why they burn their own flag.

It's their flag.

 

That's what I said.

[Barothmuk]

And you're assuming the ones doing the protesting are not the people who voted for Clinton, why?

That's what I said.

So they're free to burn it. Edited November 11, 2016 by Barothmuk

[Fighter]

So they're free to burn it.

 

And that's not what I asked.

[Barothmuk]

And that's not what I asked.

No, you're just unsatisfied with the answer.

 

Big government telling me what to do with my flag.

[Fighter]

 

And that's not what I asked.

No, you're just unsatisfied with the answer.

 

Big government telling me what to do with my flag.

 

 

That makes no sense.

[Barothmuk]

That makes no sense.

You're getting pissy over how people use their property.

[Meshugger]

 

 

 

Of course I often say the same about Christians and their bibles.

The bible has some screwy stuff in it; might be best if they don't read it.

Come on, the Old Testament is a fantastic guide to living.

 

 

After all, what would we do without Strong Family Values? Surely everything would descend into gibbering chaos as the last light of virtue and beauty gets extinguished by the nihilist and decadent intelligentsia as they reshape the world to mirror the emptiness that is within their hearts

 

 

We are. It's easily reflected in our culture, arts and architecture.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RM1oTw6fPg

 

 

 

 

[Barothmuk]

Going off my basic art history with the invention of the camera art being focused on depicting traditionally "realistic" depictions of reality became obsolete so more experimental art thrived.

 

Of course this doesn't mean art prior to this was limited to the standard depiction of kings, landscapes and Jesus. That's just the **** the nobles commissioned and which the majority of the populace didn't even get to see.

 

Look at the works of Pieter Bruegal. They could range from biting political commentary to out-right surreal.

 

Edited November 11, 2016 by Barothmuk

[Meshugger]

Going off my basic art history with the invention of the camera art being focused on depicting traditionally "realistic" depictions of reality became obsolete so more experimental art thrived.

 

Of course this doesn't mean art prior to this was limited to the standard depiction of kings, landscapes and Jesus. That's just the **** the nobles commissioned and which the majority of the populace didn't even get to see.

 

Look at the works of Pieter Bruegal. They could range from biting political commentary to out-right surreal.

 

 

Well, that picture depicts hell and sin, so i would say that it is quite accurate. I much more prefer his other work though: "Hunters in the Snow", for example. I recommend seeing it in action in Vienna, it's sheer size plays part of the impact:

 

[Fighter]

You're getting pissy over how people use their property.

 

It is not me who is pissy. But maybe it's your own people who vote for an orange looner just to spite your types.

 

This is why I am questioning your choices of protest.

[Guard Dog]

Since I was talking about the subject of the liberal media election reactions compare Fareed Zakaria's reaction to that of Krystal Ball (who has the coolest name in all journalism) that I posted on the previous thread: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-two-sins-that-defined-this-election/2016/11/10/97fdfcf2-a78b-11e6-ba59-a7d93165c6d4_story.html

 

 

 

A meritocracy can be blind to the fact that some people don’t make it because they have been unlucky in some way. More profoundly, it can be morally blind. Even those who score poorly on tests or have bad work habits are human beings deserving of attention and respect. The Republicans’ great success in rural communities has been that even though they often champion economic policies that would not help these people — indeed, policies that often hurt them — they demonstrate respect, by identifying with them culturally, religiously and emotionally.

 

So, the great sin of the modern left is elitism. But another sin was also highlighted in this election: racism.

The sneering, condescending arrogance of this just turns my stomach. "Trump voters are just a bunch of illiterate hicks who are too stupid to move to the city, get a real job, and start going to art museums. And they are racist. But we need to feel sorry for them." 

 

There I just summed his 1300 word article up in just 38 words. That line about people voting against their economic interests is especially galling because he has unabashedly championed the political faction that has driven the companies that employed the people he insults out their country with taxes, regulatory costs and trade deals that incentivize them to move. 

 

If you think Trump won because of racism, get over yourself. Trump won because in Barack Obama's America 94,610,000 adults between the age of 18 and 65 are not working. 29% of that demographic ( http://jobenomicsblog.com/tag/bureau-of-labor-statistics/ ). But Obama tells us the unemployment rate is only 4.9%. How can that be?  In Barack Obama's America once your unemployment benefits run out you no longer count. You disappear. You become what Orwell call an "un-person". Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania are not red states. They are the bluest of blue and Trump won all three no because they suddenly became racist but because the un-persons were sick of being ignored when they were't being mocked. 

Edited November 11, 2016 by Guard Dog

[Drowsy Emperor]

Or how the US election metastasized to Renaissance art 

[Malcador]

 

 

 

 

When the left protested against war, ending mass surveillance, globalism and for free speech one could easily understand their grievances.

 

Now it requires university degree to understand.

Not at all, what dont you understand about these protests? I can explain anything you are unsure about ( well hopefully anything )

Explain why they burn their own flag.

Typical thing in a protest. Expresses dissatisfaction with the state, only a problem for people with a 'special' sense of patriotism.

 

Turning it upside down is better and doesn't create litter.

[Fighter]

Typical thing in a protest. Expresses dissatisfaction with the state, only a problem for people with a 'special' sense of patriotism.

 

Turning it upside down is better and doesn't create litter.

 

The only time I have seen it before is when it's burned by a mob in a foreign land. There it really is typical.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

 

 

Well, that picture depicts hell and sin, so i would say that it is quite accurate.

 

> the picture depicts hell

> accurate

 

pick one

[Malcador]

 

Typical thing in a protest. Expresses dissatisfaction with the state, only a problem for people with a 'special' sense of patriotism.

 

Turning it upside down is better and doesn't create litter.

The only time I have seen it before is when it's burned by a mob in a foreign land. There it really is typical.

US flag burning by Americans is nothing new.

[Fighter]

I'll take your word for it.

[FlintlockJazz]

Please forgive this Brit for coming in here and throwing his opinion about another country's election, but since my opinion is mostly going to be about my fellow Brits interfering in other countries' elections I feel like its okay?

 

Prior to the election I saw people on both sides expressing discontent with the whole Electoral Colleges thing and how the more popular candidate can still lose, but this was before their candidate had won or lost so it was okay in my mind, I have been expressing similar discontent with our own system here and it is broken and unfair.  However, since the elections I have seen people who had mentioned no discontent with it before suddenly becoming very vocal about it, and I'm like "Would you even be bringing this up had the situation been reversed?"  Sadly, I know the truth to be no, especially when they ignore the question and then try and turn it into something else.  Many of these people are signing some petition about it, and I'm like "You're British, its not your business and are actually undermining it since now its gonna be full of foreigners instead..."

 

This is all part of my concern about political polarisation.  I actually think this is the greater danger than anything else, but everyone is too busy being polarised to listen...

[Meshugger]

 

 

 

Well, that picture depicts hell and sin, so i would say that it is quite accurate.

 

> the picture depicts hell

> accurate

 

pick one

 

 

Hell is usually depicted across cultures either as a place of chaotic punishment or as a stage of society being controlled by its vices. I would say that the picture displays that quite accurately.