A beginner's guide [guide edition 1.2]

[Ben No.3]

A suggestion: if Ben No.3 doesn't have the time to write up a section on basic character building advice, perhaps other board members could write one up, then Ben could copy paste it into the OP. I'm not sure I'm really qualified to write one for any class, but I could collate the information in this thread for a Barbarian guide.

The problem is not time, it is qualification  I am by no means an expert on every single class. 

I will start a basic overview over the classes later today or tomorrow... So for example stats, playstyle, focus of abilties/spells, role in a party and so on. But if there is a demand for a more detailed guide around here (rather than the actual guides), then yes, help would be appreciated.

But wouldn't that sort of create a competition beteween the guide annd the builds list? Because that is something I want to avoid... Shouldn't we leave the build guides to the build guides?

Edited November 5, 2016 by Ben No.3

[JerekKruger]

Well my guess is I am no more qualified that you are Ben, I was simply going to give a description of what each ability does, an idea of how good it is, and some notes on less obvious aspects of abilities. For example, a new player might not understand that Heart of Fury will generate separate carnage templates for each enemy it hits, leading to a truly ludicrous potential number of hits against large, tightly packed groups. Without that knowledge, they could be forgiven for thinking that, even as a 1/encounter ability, it's fairly unexciting.

[Ben No.3]

Well my guess is I am no more qualified that you are Ben, I was simply going to give a description of what each ability does, an idea of how good it is, and some notes on less obvious aspects of abilities. For example, a new player might not understand that Heart of Fury will generate separate carnage templates for each enemy it hits, leading to a truly ludicrous potential number of hits against large, tightly packed groups. Without that knowledge, they could be forgiven for thinking that, even as a 1/encounter ability, it's fairly unexciting.

There will be a huge problem when doing that when it comes to staying objektive. Also, considering class guides have already been done to perfection on these forums, I doubt the guide could live up to that standard. And even if, what is the sense in having the same guide twice?

 

But what I can perfectly imagine is a basic overview over the classes and maybe a "hidden gems" section where there is knowledge about spells and abilities collected that may not be obvious at first. I'd definitley need help with that though

 

 

HOWEVER if you have something you'd like to add do so!! It will be used in one way or another

Edited November 5, 2016 by Ben No.3

[Ben No.3]

Any help is greatly appreciated

 

But I want to avoid creating a guide like nerdcommando's on steam, that gives the impression all classes must be build that or that way or they suck.

Edited November 5, 2016 by Ben No.3

[JerekKruger]

Well the class guides on the forum are usually for specific builds rather than general advice. Some of the guides are even based around the idea of taking an ability that is generally not very good, but becomes powerful when combined with gear, talents and other abilities in a non-obvious way.

 

Meanwhile, my guess is most new players want to build their characters organically whilst playing, and just want some guidance on which abilities are good and which are bad. Obviously, as you say, there's the danger of personal bias creeping in, which is why ideally the commentary should be backed up by some rough calculations - considering Heart of Fury again: you target it over a group of five, tightly packed enemies (not a particularly rare occurrence) you have the potential of hitting all of them five times (once with the main attack and four times with carnage attacks) and fairly simple estimates will quickly show that it is an objectively powerful ability in this situation (obviously a comment mentioning that against a single enemy it's not that great should be added).

[JerekKruger]

But I want to avoid creating a guide like nerdcommando's on steam, that gives the impression all classes must be build that or that way or they suck.

 

Definitely!

[Ben No.3]

Cool...

 

Well see how we develop the issue of classes. Right now (edit: should have been this evening, will be tomorrow morning) I'll give an overview, and mark it as WIP. if anyone wants to contribute, please do so. But remain as objektive as possible.

 

I think the "hidden gems section" might work out better... contributers don't need to write for ever and ever, but the result will be (somewhat) similar. "Hidden gems" would obviously be sorted by class. But if there is a demand for full on guides I'll see what I can do.

Edited November 6, 2016 by Ben No.3

[Boeroer]

But I want to avoid creating a guide like nerdcommando's on steam, that gives the impression all classes must be build that or that way or they suck.

And besides that - he has no idea what's good and what sucks I'd say... recommending a fighter tank with Overbearing Guard. Pffff!

[AndreaColombo]

Hey, hey, hey! Wait a second there...

[Ben No.3]

You think that is the worst part? In his spell review for the wizad, combusting wounds is under the "junk" category   And call to slumber is apparently as well junk... 

Edited November 5, 2016 by Ben No.3

[Boeroer]

As I said: no idea! I guess he likes rogues...

[Raven Darkholme]

Nerdcommando?

Is that the guy who recommends 3 Mi 3 Per tanks?

 

edit: good job Ben.

Edited November 5, 2016 by Raven Darkholme

[Ben No.3]

Well, thank you thank you.

[Ben No.3]

I have added an section introducing the wizard, priest and druid class. What do we think of this format?

Maybe I could add one or two high level spells or abilities per class... Sort of as "appetisers". Would mean I had to determine determine what spells should be presented...

Ideas or suggestions?

Edited November 6, 2016 by Ben No.3

[Pidesco]

This thread is now pinned, as it seems quite useful and helpful.

[Ben No.3]

Well thank you thank you. Guess I should get around quickly to finish of the classes

[AndreaColombo]

One thing worth mentioning under the Damage Reduction header is that armors' damage reduction bonuses and penalties against specific damage types are percentage based, and proofing your armor against one of those damage types is going to have an amplified/diminished effect accordingly. This is something that made several users scratch their heads and report intended behaviors as bugs in the early days, as the UI generally does a poor job of communicating it.

 

For example, say you have an armor whose base DR value is 8, but it is particularly good against Slash damage (10) and bad against Crush (6). These values are obtained as 8 * 1.25 = 10 (Slash) and 8 * (1-0.25) = 6 (Crush).

 

Now let's say we want to apply a damage proofing enchantment to this armor. Against any damage type other than Slash or Crush, proofing adds a flat +3 to the armor's DR: 8 + 3 = 11.

 

If, however, we proof it against Slash damage, we are getting more bang for our buck: (8+3) * 1.25 = 13.75, which the UI will round up to 14.

 

Likewise, proofing it against Crush damage gets you less bang for your buck: (8+3) * (1-0.25) = 8.25, which the UI will round down to 8.

 

Counterintuitively, you get more out of proofing your armor against damage types it's already good at protecting you from. The same is true of the bonus DR applied by the Fine, Exceptional, Superb, and Legendary quality enchantments.

Edited November 8, 2016 by AndreaColombo

[Ben No.3]

Thanks, I will get to it. Been sick lately, and I didn't want to produce medicore work. I'll update it together with the next set of classes. Or you allow me to copy and paste, then I can do it now.

Edited November 8, 2016 by Ben No.3

[AndreaColombo]

Totally fine with copy-pasting if you want

[Ben No.3]

Alright, added and credited

Edited November 8, 2016 by Ben No.3

[JerekKruger]

I think that's something I knew and forgot Andrea. It makes sense, but I can definitely see why it caused confusion. It's a little annoying though, as by inclination I'd want to X proof armour against whatever it's worst against to try and create a well balanced suit.

 

The same also (seems to*) apply to the quality enchants (fine, exceptional etc.). This means that the weaknesses of armour types will be amplified as the quality of the armour goes up. Obviously this is less important for enchanting, since you're not picking a specific resistance to proof against, but it's still interesting to note.

 

*Exceptional breastplate is +4 DR, but only +3 DR to Burn and Freeze.

 

EDIT: also congrats on being stickied Ben

 

EDIT2: I just noticed Andrea already covered this. I need to learn to read more carefully.

Edited November 9, 2016 by JerekKruger

[Ben No.3]

I am now gonna update it (finally I get to it ) with the chanter and cipher classes... Can we agree that the chanter ultimately only needs intellect?

 

EDIT: Just lost all my changes due to pressing the wrong button ​

So sorry for the delay, led to me only managing to fit the chanter in today I'll get to the rest, hopefully I can manage one class daily and definitely more on the weekend.

Edited November 10, 2016 by Ben No.3

[Maphyr]

Thank you for creating and maintaining this guide.  

 

New player here and I don't want to wiki warrior the game but I do what an basic understanding of what I'm getting myself into... this guide is perfect.

 

Also gives me some solid reading material while the client downloads.

[GreenShrike]

One thing I'd like noted is the whole thing about Mechanics being used to spot hidden objects/treasure, and not just traps.

 

When I first started playing, I jacked my perception through the roof since I didn't want to miss anything hidden -- and then promptly wasn't able to find the hidden stuff e.g. near Durance's campsite when you first meet him, or the hidden stuff in the cave in Anslog's Compass, because my Mechanics I was just bumping up to deal with whatever level the locks and traps I was coming across were. However, when going back to those maps later in the game for bounties, the hidden spots lit up just fine.

 

To avoid confusion, I'd put a note under Perception saying it *isn't* used for detecting hidden spots, but rather Mechanics is. And explain under Mechanics that, like traps, hidden spots have 'levels' and you need that level or better in Mechanics to successfully detect them.

[Ben No.3]

Thanks for the feedback, added it