Chris Avellone hates Obsidian!

[WorstUsernameEver]

"Victim blaming" was an expression used to talk about rape victims who were blamed for the abuse they went through, because people didn't want to place the blame on the actual abusers for various reasons (cultural, knowing the abuser personally, etc.)

 

I dunno if Avellone is a victim, I wasn't in the Obsidian offices when they had this split, but it's certainly not an expression appropriate for this situation.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

"Victim blaming" was an expression used to talk about rape victims who were blamed for the abuse they went through, because people didn't want to place the blame on the actual abusers for various reasons (cultural, knowing the abuser personally, etc.)

 

I dunno if Avellone is a victim, I wasn't in the Obsidian offices when they had this split, but it's certainly not an expression appropriate for this situation.

 

But of course Sharpie wears his ignorance and unwillingness to treat people with respect as a badge of honor, so it's certainly appropriate to the speaker.

[Gfted1]

"Victim blaming" is soley used wrt rape? Kooky. Someone better update the wiki page asap! You may now carry on with the semantics pissing contest.

[Rosbjerg]

"Victim blaming" is soley used wrt rape? Kooky. Someone better update the wiki page asap! You may now carry on with the semantics pissing contest.

 

'was an expression used' 

 

Seems you missed an important word.. and the article also points out how it was most often used in regards to sexual assault. so...

 

But off topic - and a fairly irrelevant subject at that - seeing as there are no victims here. Just a guy who didn't like his work place.

[Gfted1]

 

"Victim blaming" is soley used wrt rape? Kooky. Someone better update the wiki page asap! You may now carry on with the semantics pissing contest.

 

'was an expression used' 

 

Seems you missed an important word.. and the article also points out how it was most often used in regards to sexual assault. so...

 

 

"but it's certainly not an expression appropriate for this situation."

 

Seems you missed an important statement as he is directly applying it in his lecture to Sharp_one. So...

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

 

"Victim blaming" is soley used wrt rape? Kooky. Someone better update the wiki page asap! You may now carry on with the semantics pissing contest.

 

'was an expression used' 

 

Seems you missed an important word.. and the article also points out how it was most often used in regards to sexual assault. so...

 

 

"but it's certainly not an expression appropriate for this situation."

 

Seems you missed an important statement as he is directly applying it in his lecture to Sharp_one. So...

 

 

I think the gist of his argument was that - as Rosbjerg pointed out - there really are no victims here, at least not in sense victimology uses the term, so "victim blaming" makes no sense even if we ignore concerns of appropriateness or lack thereof.

Edited November 23, 2016 by aluminiumtrioxid

[Gfted1]

Ah, his entire first sentence was just schooling us up on etymology? Cool cool. Did you know "victim blaming" was first coined for racism? Fascinating stuff.

[Tale]

What in the ever loving

[aluminiumtrioxid]

Ah, his entire first sentence was just schooling us up on etymology? Cool cool. Did you know "victim blaming" was first coined for racism? Fascinating stuff.

 

"This is a loaded term, and not really applicable to the situation anyway, so how about not using it" is two arguments, technically. The fact that you don't find the first argument convincing (or, for that matter, find it to be counter-factual) doesn't make the argument disappear, but questions of whether it's flawed or not are orthogonal to the issue of whether it was the sole argument in favor of not using the term

[Nonek]

And the victim blaming begins.

 

You insensitive devil you!

 

 

 

Call me?

[Labadal]

Has he done anything significant in the past years? I feel like his talent was wasted over there for many years. I would probably have felt the need to leave, too. I agree that you either tell all of the story or shut up, though. No need to be vague. Or maybe that he didn't get to have his creative freedom is all there is to it.

[WorstUsernameEver]

The point is that, if Chris Avellone has been victimized in any way (and by victimized I mean being victim of a serious abuse/breach of conduct, not simply having creative differences with former co-workers), we have no idea of that, and there's no need to resort to using expressions that, frankly, belong into other more serious conversations.

 

We're talking about video game creatives having differences concerning management and specific projects, the details of which I don't think anyone except for the people involved are privy to.

I'm going to guess Sharp_one might have been referring to the account lock-up, which does sound bizarre, but right now doesn't really seem to be cause for dipping into that register.

[Deadly_Nightshade]

Obsidian locked him out of his forum account? You would think just removing any mod/dev access would be enough, must have been a really bad break.

His account is set to 'inactive' so I suspect he is locked out of it, that said I'm disappointed on how he's behaving and the amount of drama he's generating. Hopefully things will get better in time but as things stand I doubt that will happen anytime soon.

[Blarghagh]

Pretty sure (90%?) that that happens to all employees who leave though.

[Longknife]

I really don't get the big issue.

 

You guys don't like Avellone's tone? Here's how you get that point across: ignore him. Ignore him so he throws his little tantrum alone without a captive audience, eventually he realizes how stupid he must look, then he stops doing it.

I like Obsidian's work, I like Avellone's work. I do not care about their personal beefs, I care about if they can keep making great games. Apparently they may no longer work well together, but that's their decision to make, and if splitting up is what's neccesary for both to get back to good work, I expect they're both adult enough to recognize that. Back to work.

[WDeranged]

I really don't get the big issue.

 

You guys don't like Avellone's tone? Here's how you get that point across: ignore him. Ignore him so he throws his little tantrum alone without a captive audience, eventually he realizes how stupid he must look, then he stops doing it.

 

I like Obsidian's work, I like Avellone's work. I do not care about their personal beefs, I care about if they can keep making great games. Apparently they may no longer work well together, but that's their decision to make, and if splitting up is what's neccesary for both to get back to good work, I expect they're both adult enough to recognize that. Back to work.

 

Yeah I'm not really freaking out over this either.  If anything a pissed off Avellone traditionally creates better content.  It'll work out.

[Gfted1]

Words like "tantrum" and "stupid" belong in other more serious conversation. Because.

[Labadal]

I really don't get the big issue.

 

You guys don't like Avellone's tone? Here's how you get that point across: ignore him. Ignore him so he throws his little tantrum alone without a captive audience, eventually he realizes how stupid he must look, then he stops doing it.

 

I like Obsidian's work, I like Avellone's work. I do not care about their personal beefs, I care about if they can keep making great games. Apparently they may no longer work well together, but that's their decision to make, and if splitting up is what's neccesary for both to get back to good work, I expect they're both adult enough to recognize that. Back to work.

I don't dislike his tone. He feels like he was ignored and didn't get much say. he didn't really do much in his last years at the company. I understand why he isn't happy. Everything Obsidian has put out lately has felt safe. I thought that with crowdfunding and all that, that they could have been working on a more daring project.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

Words like "tantrum" and "stupid" belong in other more serious conversation. Because.

 

you belong in a more serious conversation

[Gfted1]

No way yo! I keep my trigger level low. You getting my flow?

[Flouride]

And the victim blaming begins.

 

The only recognizable victim so far has been the fandom. Of both Obsidian and Avellone himself. No one (especially me since you are pointing at me without actually saying my name) is blaming Avellone.

I'm questioning his methods and saying what it looks like to me, someone who does not know the whole story behind all of it and how it makes me "feel".

[Zoraptor]

Pretty sure (90%?) that that happens to all employees who leave though.

 

I don't really understand why it would be a big deal, forums are not a truly public space and you don't 'own' your account. In any case, Chris can't really both drop passive aggressive hints and complain that he's been unfairly locked out; there would be a non negligible chance of something like the character blog being replaced by dongmonster gifs if he weren't.

 

(IIRC Matt Rorie used his old account a fair while after leaving, but I'm not certain and can't be bothered checking)

 

I don't dislike his tone. He feels like he was ignored and didn't get much say. he didn't really do much in his last years at the company. I understand why he isn't happy. Everything Obsidian has put out lately has felt safe. I thought that with crowdfunding and all that, that they could have been working on a more daring project.

 

 

I don't think his 'tone' is at all... constructive, either for him or for Obsidian. For all his positive comments about Bethesda in those interviews he isn't doing himself any favours if he ever does want full time employment again. Companies hate disruptive influences.

 

Trouble is, his style of complaint is something I find symptomatic of the sort of pointless grudge holding that went on at high school. It's entirely possible that things weren't trivial, but if he was doing the passive aggressive hint dropping stuff at Obsidian it would certainly explain why nearly everyone ended up either ignoring or disliking him/ he felt that he was ignored and disliked* as that sort of approach is obnoxious to people just trying to do their job, and it tends towards being a vicious circle where the passive aggressiveness ends up as a persecution complex because people won't support you. And at the moment most of his objectively checkable complaints have not, er, checked out.

 

*he has said he only had one friend at Obsidian, which is both a bit sad but definitely indicates his problems were not just with senior management. I was the 'one friend' to someone in a similar situation and most of the time they were their own worst enemy whatever the justifications were in their dislike as they made themselves painful to work with.

[ShadySands]

I think I saw a few ex-Obsidianites still using the same forum accounts. They just no longer said developer or whatever under it

[Labadal]

That's how it is, yes.

 

I know Chris' reactions my seem a bit immature, but as you guys have said. No one really knows what has happened.

[Gorth]

 

And the victim blaming begins.

 

The only recognizable victim so far has been the fandom. Of both Obsidian and Avellone himself.

 

That must be how he children of of divorced parents feel. Time for some self recrimination? Was it something *we* did???