[CLASS BUILD] Counselor Ploi (charming paladin supporter tank)

[StormOwnz]

I will have to take screen shots when I get home to give you more details

[Jojobobo]

Yeah level 4 isn't really a good metric for any build - you have so few talents and abilities at that stage that it's practically meaningless. Chanters also always start off strong with their ability to summon minions, their healing and their damaging chants/invocations. Give it a fair few more levels (9 or 10 is usually when I get a good sense of how something is shaping out) and then see how you feel - you've not really got any way into the meat of what the build is about.

Edited December 4, 2017 by Jojobobo

[Boeroer]

Early game is the hardest part. But still the paladin should at least be as tanky as the Chanter. If you send him in first so that he gets all the heat that may explain why he gets pummeled so hard while the chanter isn't. You can cast Lay on Hands in advance if you know he will get attacked soon.

[Elouen]

Hi,

i really want to play one of your nice guides on pally  but idk which one to choose 

 

Wich  of your build is the most fun to play for you (and in ealry game too)?

the Couselor ploi?

or the dull runner? https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/83338-class-build-the-dull-runner-caster-clipper-paladin-tank/page-2

 thx for the  info

[Boeroer]

The more effective one in a party is def. Counselor Ploi. Which one is more fun strongly depends on you preferences.

 

Also since the Dull Runner is a Bleak Walker you would need to do a quite evil playthrough (only if he's supposed to be the MC of course).

[Elouen]

okay thanks mate, i have begun to build a counselor, and have to admit that for a defensive character, he deal a LOT of damage (thx kana and his arquebus)

[Elouen]

and again... (sorry)  is it not b etter   arbalest instead of arquebus? and what are the others weapons i could take that are good with focus soldier and the counselor??

[Boeroer]

Arquebus is quite nice. If you can find an arbalest with higher enchantment quality (superb - like Aedrin's Wrecker) I would use that until you get Pliambo per Casitàs, which is the best arquebus for Ploi because it has marking (+10 ACC for a single team member) AND disorienting (-5 defense on the enemy). Which is a net ACC gain of 15 for a team membner that attacks the same enemy as you (supergood against dragons and other bosses - but always useful generally speaking).

 

As for melee weapons: Outworn Buckler is king - add any one handed marking weapon to it (Cladhaliath or "Shame or Glory") or one with a disorienting enchantment (Strike Hard, Vile Loner's Lance). The best option for Ploi would be Cladhaliath with Marking + Coordinating. If you side with the Dozens and Ploi is the MC you can get Cladhaliath pretty early and also gain the talent Mob Justice which fits Ploi better than Merciless Hand (Doemenel) or Second Skin (Crucible Knights). But that's just a minor - stuff like the Vile Loner's Lance is also fine. Strike Hard would be cool because it's in the same weapon group as arquebus and arbalest. But it comes rather late.

Edited June 8, 2018 by Boeroer

[Elouen]

yeah outworn make my eder dps more viable as an offtank thanks for the info, wow vile loner's lance is really good ! i'll give it a try! thanks as always boeroer for giving us very nice build^^ (im also trying ur your thief/mage scrolls)

[Boeroer]

You are welcome.

[Drusain]

I know this technically isn’t directly related to the build, but I’d like to know more about how you would build a fighter to accompany this particular Ploi paladin build. I like the concept of this build a lot (and PoE paladins in general) and have been trying to use it for my first game of PoE. I intended to have the Ploi build support a tanky Eder, but by level 4, I haven’t really found Eder able to maintain control on enemy lines with Defender which led me to a lot of frustration of trying to control the field.

 

I’ve been reading on the forums a little bit about how enemies seem to ignore Defender so I’m willing to try to build Eder more aggressive to support the Ploi build. I see that you had your fighter get Knockdown, Disciplined Barrage, Take the Hit, Charge, with a pike. As you wrote, this isn’t quite the Lady of Pain build or else I’d just modify my Eder from that. Would you be willing to provide some more details on what types of abilities/talents you would prioritize for a fighter accompanying this paladin?

 

Thanks for any help you can provide.

[Boeroer]

Hi,

 

I would make a high INT offensive fighter with Disciplined Barrage, Two Handed Style, Savage Attack, Weapon Focus (whatever backup weapon you want to use), Scion of Flame, Weapon Spec and Mastery and pick up Forgemaster Gloves & Belt of the Royal Deadfire Cannoneer (gives you 6 times Firebrand per rest). The ACC boost comes from the paladin and the Fighter can pair that with his Barrage - to generate a lot of crits (also when using Knockdown). Firebrand does tremendous damage on crit.

 

For sturdyness I would go high MIG (also good for Firebrand) and skill survival really high so that I can get the healing bonus and also use the Robe of the Tireless Defender, Rapid Recovery and a Belt of Bountiful Healing.

 

He will destroy any single target the paladin marks for him. This works even better if the fighter is the MC and takes the Doemenel route and get "Merciless Hand" and later sides with the Dyrwoodan Looters in Twin Elms and gets "Dungeon Delver".

 

Add a priest with Inspiring Radiance and Devotions for even more crits.

 

For crowd control something like a cipher or wizard is better than a low dmg tank. Tanks who do low dmg but have very high defenses will be ignored by most enemies as long there are more "valuable" targets.

 

A fighter with Take the Hit doesn't work well with Mind Control (like the Ploi has) because Take the Hit is bugged when it comes to charmed/dominated enemies: If they get attacked your fighte will also get their damage (because thy have flipped alliance and now work for you) - but it will not go away after they flip back - that makes them really hard to kill without killing your fighter as well.

Edited June 26, 2018 by Boeroer

[desolace1]

I have some questions about your guide:

Why Wood Elf for Paladin? It's for ranged classes cus its bonus works against targets 4m+ away. ??

Why Island Aumaua? Why do you need as many as 3 weapons sets if you will use always 1h+shield anyway?

Why no info about which order will be the best? I heard Elega.

 

Why only 8 con? Isn't con a major stat for all melee fighters and especially for tanks? And only 16 res, isn't res the best for tank? And it has even the best star for paladins. Why so much int?

Why only 2 athl? I heard you need at least 5 for every char in your group to not trigger bad events. 

Most of the talents and abilities you listed are not available for me. Are they for a high level char? 

 

 

[Boeroer]

The answers for nearly all of your questions are in the opening post.

 

Distant Advantage (Wood Elf racial) not only provides +5 ACC for Whisper of Treason and Flames of Devotion with the arquebus but also gives you bonus deflection against ranged attacks. It even works with Sacred Immolation. It's explained in the build description.

 

Island Aumaua would be an alternative if you want to spare talent points and still have 3 weapon sets: 2 for arquebuses for FoD and the third for your weapon & shield. You don't use the weapon & shield setup all the time. You want to use the arquebuses for Flames of Devotion shots.

 

It is mentioned several times that the order is a Shieldbearer (of St. Elcga).

 

8 CON is enough if you have good deflection. INT influences the duration of Whisper of Treason (which is a key ability of this build), it also expands the area of effect of your zealous aura and the radius of Outworn Buckler's Herald aura. It also expands the duration andarea of effect of Sacred Immolation. It also raises the healing you do with Lay on Hands. RES only raises deflection and will a bit which is not needed in a party setup.

 

If this should be a main tank then more defense and less offense and more CON could be better. However single main tanks don't work well in PoE as they can't hold too many enemies engaged - and once you play with two or three dedicated front liners you don't need extreme tankyness but be better off with "tanks" that can also contribute to the party's performance in other ways. This build has great supporter qualities (heal, boost party ACC, boost single ally ACC, boost party's deflection, raise single ally's deflection), can charm very tough foes easily (great single target CC - easily charms dragons for example) and also do serious burst damage (can take out enemy squishies easily with a well placed shot).

 

Athletics is a poor skill compared to survival. Consequences from having low Athletics in scripted interactions are not severe or really bad. You can easily do a playtrough with a party where nobody has even 1 Athletics.

 

Yes - most abilities and talents get only unlocked at higher levels. The ones I named are not ordered by level. Just pick the ones from the list that are available at lvl up.

Edited July 7, 2018 by Boeroer

[desolace1]

So i guess you do it with arquebus because it's the highest dmg weapon? And you do it only to fire 2 shots with FoD then switch to weap & shield? And you do it at the start/end of the fight, cus i can't imagine tanking 5 mobs with a gun :D

[Boeroer]

Exactly.

 

You can also fire a gun in between if you don't get attacked. But usually you will unload your two guns with Flames of Devotion at the start of the battle to immediately take out (or severely damage) a high priority target such as an enemy caster. With FoD you will immediately provide a defense buff for your party and if you kill him then some more. Then switch to marking weapon & shield and attack an enemy who is already attacked by an ally to deliver high ACC support. In-between you can charm other enemies with Sworn Enemy + Whisper of Treason. Distant Advantage + Sworn Enemy means that your Whisper of Treason will do an attack roll with +30 Accuracy. Usually everything that is not immune can be charmed that way.

 

An alternative to arquebus would be a dual wielding setup like dual sabres or dual battle axes etc. Then you don't need a 3rd weapon slot.

 

If you'd be an Island Aumaua you could even have 4 weapon sets, get a third arquebus and add Runner's Wounding Shot - which is as strong as Flames of Devotion (without the nice ACC bonus). This would take away some charming power and accuracy but give you a third hefty attack for taking out a squishy.

Edited July 7, 2018 by Boeroer

[Markovka]

Planning to play this build as Island Aumua and I'm bit confused with "Runner's Wounding Shot". I looked at Paladin's Wiki and this talent doesn't exist (but exist on Ranger talent's list), do I missing something ?

[Desmodeus]

It is clossclass talant. Every non ranger class have access to it, assuming you have dlc

[Boeroer]

Yes, it is a talent which every class except Ranger can pick (because Rangers get the "original" Wounding Shot ability).

Same as Veteran's Recovery, Aspirant's Mark, Apprentice's Sneak Attack, Rhymer's Summons, Enigma's Charm, Outlander's Frenzy, Acolyte's Radiance, Prestidigitator's Missiles and Gallant's Focus.

Edited December 21, 2020 by Boeroer

[demon72]

After playing Icewind Dale II and all parts of BG several year ago - I'm in the mood for a classic RPG again...

...but I have just noticed that pretty much everything has changed in the meantime.

 

Just want to make one run on Pillars I on PotD and get most possible out of this.

Therefore I don't want to spend to much time on creating new builds and would prefer to just stay with some great builds from this forum.

 

Therefore a few questions:

1. is it possible to have both - a party of 5 or 6 self-created characters and just let the pre-designed companions jump-in for their side-quests? Or will you loose to much XP that way?

2. does "Counselor Ploi" will work as main character? Means: are the stats good enough to pass all important checks?

3. as most parties seems to be quite small - how big is the disadvantage to play a full party?

4. if I go with Counselor Ploi as main - what would be the recommendation for the rest?

• if there is a good build, I would prefer a dual-wielding rogue (and eventually even a 2nd one)
• a cleric needs to be in every party for me...
• ...same for a wizard (caster or speöösword - whatever the actual meta says)
• I don't like monks - as they seem to be just for kids, watching to much kong-fu movies (and therefore designers make them OP)
• is there a good class for a godlike, without too many disadvantages not beeing able to wear a helmet?
• not having an idea how they need to be played, I'm open for the "new" classes Cypher and Chanter

any advice?

any combination that should be avoided, as they would need the same critical items?

 

 

 

[demon72]

Why does nobody uses Hastening Exhortation?

[Boeroer]

It's 3 per rest (not encounter). Per-rest abilities are very unpopular.

[demon72]

On 4/17/2021 at 9:03 PM, Boeroer said:

It's 3 per rest (not encounter). Per-rest abilities are very unpopular.

Think that you don't need it to win 90% of the battles, but I would guess, that this could be quite helpfull in the few harder ones.

At least in the speed-calculator it seems to have a massive effect!

[Boeroer]

Why massive?

It doesn't stack with other active speed buffs like Swift Strikes, Swift Aim, Deleterious Alacrity or Frenzy and 20% is not particularly high.

However some speed buffs in PoE - if they stack - will have increasing returns. So if you already have Durgan Steel, Gauntlets of Swift Action and maybe even Sure Handed Ila (which does stack with Hastening Exhortation) then it might seem supergood. But its effect does the same as for example Swift Aim and is worse than Frenzy.

I mean it somehow is good because its duration is quite long. But 3/rest makes it unpopular really - even though x/rest has the advantage that you can indeed use it x times in one encounter when you really need it - and just skip it if you don't.  

I would be tempted if it was 4/rest - like most spell uses are. 4-5 big fights per rest sounds reasonable. Resting every 3 fights seems a bit too frequent. 

[demon72]

On 4/22/2021 at 2:11 PM, Boeroer said:

Why massive?

based on the speed-calculator the effect seems to be much higher as it should be (~ +40%) - but maybe the speed-calculator is just wrong at this point.

 

Quote

It doesn't stack with other active speed buffs like Swift Strikes, Swift Aim, Deleterious Alacrity or Frenzy and 20% is not particularly high.

Doesn't it stack? At least I would have no idea how to proof this.

Swift Strikes, Swift Aim and Frenzy are not available for may party, only thing that would matter would be Deleterious Alacrity.

 

Quote

Resting every 3 fights seems a bit too frequent. 

Definetly, but there at that few harder fights, that I'm not sure if I will ever use up all 3 charges before resting.

And as my Paladin doesn't do anything usefull in the first few seconds of a fight anyway - why shouldn't he help my melee-wizard to get even more deadly as he already is?

But all depends if it stacks with Deleterious Alacrity or not.