[CLASS BUILD] Counselor Ploi (charming paladin supporter tank)

[Lampros]

 

I played this guy together with the barb tank "Golden Dragon", and the barb's defenses + ACC debuffs together with the paladin's defense buffs lead to an untouchable main tank and to a very sturdy party. Debuffing ACC and buffing defenses at the same time (also had a priest) is very effective. I later retrained the whole party to 3 CON.

 

Just a question. If you both of your melees were tanks, then where was the melee DPS coming from? Or was ranged DPS enough? Interested in the rest of your crew. I cannot imagine running 2 tanks, unless one of them is a Chanter and providing both tanking and DPS.

Edited September 8, 2017 by Lampros

[Torm51]

my first TC win was with only two tanks.  Paladin and a two handed fighter.  lots of back line damage.

[Boeroer]

Just a question. If you both of your melees were tanks, then where was the melee DPS coming from? Or was ranged DPS enough? Interested in the rest of your crew. I cannot imagine running 2 tanks, unless one of them is a Chanter and providing both tanking and DPS.

First of all: as you can see, this build is not a 100% defensive one. I don't like them because they are boring - and it's pointless when you as a tank are the only one alive but all others are dead and you can't damage anything.

 

Secondly this build has nearly maximum amount of alpha strike (or burst) damage via FoD (FoD + Intense Flames + Burning Lash + Scion of Flame = +120% burn damage of overall damage, not base damage). With two shots of his arquebuses he can potentially take out two dangerous squishies like casters - or at least deliver the killing shot. I need this for triggering the on-kill effect of Inspiring Triumph for example. But I also value the tactical advantage to be able to take out casters very quickly at the beginning of the fight and then switch to tank(ish) mode. Paladins are perfect for this. Another class that does this very well is ranger (even better alpha strike, doesn't tank es well but has a pet that helps a lot).

 

And yes, I usually have dedicated damage dealers in my party, not necessarily the back row though. I have no problem with 4 melees for example. If this is the case I just make sure that every party member is sturdy and does spread more instead of clinging together and using the traditional front line/back line approach.

 

And of course it doesn't matter where damage comes from, be it melee or ranged. Important thing is that there is damage.

Edited September 8, 2017 by Boeroer

[Lampros]

 

Just a question. If you both of your melees were tanks, then where was the melee DPS coming from? Or was ranged DPS enough? Interested in the rest of your crew. I cannot imagine running 2 tanks, unless one of them is a Chanter and providing both tanking and DPS.

First of all: as you can see, this build is not a 100% defensive one. I don't like them because they are boring - and it's pointless when you as a tank are the only one alive but all others are dead and you can't damage anything.

 

Secondly this build has nearly maximum amount of alpha strike (or burst) damage via FoD (FoD + Intense Flames + Burning Lash + Scion of Flame = +120% burn damage of overall damage, not base damage). With two shots of his arquebuses he can potentially take out two dangerous squishies like casters - or at least deliver the killing shot. I need this for triggering the on-kill effect of Inspiring Triumph for example. But I also value the tactical advantage to be able to take out casters very quickly at the beginning of the fight and then switch to tank(ish) mode. Paladins are perfect for this. Another class that does this very well is ranger (even better alpha strike, doesn't tank es well but has a pet that helps a lot).

 

 

Wait, a gunpowder weapon can do enough damage to kill or seriously hurt an enemy with just one shot?! I have not tried one yet, because people keep saying re-loading weapons suck. But if this is indeed the case then I should try them out! Yet, then why so much criticism of those weapons?

[JerekKruger]

Wait, a gunpowder weapon can do enough damage to kill or seriously hurt an enemy with just one shot?! I have not tried one yet, because people keep saying re-loading weapons suck. But if this is indeed the case then I should try them out! Yet, then why so much criticism of those weapons?

 

Gunpowder weapons take a long time to reload, but this doesn't matter if you don't intend to reload them. This build has two arquebuses: shoot someone with a Flames of Devotion shot, switch to the second arquebus and repeat and you're going to do a lot of damage. Sure, after that you're not shooting but that's precisely when you go and tank.

[Boeroer]

Because they are not good for sustained use - like doing auto-attacks all day for example. Damage per second (dps) is indeed bad if you want to shoot with reloading and your fights are long (like on PotD). Guns are awfully slow and hence the value "damage per second" is not very high. But they hit like trucks. Damage per hit is the highest and their base damage is the highest.

 

Because of that they work very well with any damage bonus. So they are always number one choice if you have abilites wich give you a high damage boost but are limited to 1 or 2 per encounter - like Flames of Devotion, Wounding Shot/Runner's Wounding Shot and so on. With those abilites you can't do sustained damage but only spike damage - because their uses per encounter are so limited. Not 5 FoD per encounter but only 2. So they work very well with guns.

 

One or two shots with an arquebus, done with maxed Flames of Devotion (and maybe with a crit, too), will deal a ton of damage while two strikes with a dagger with FoD for example is just slapping with a wet (albeit hot) noodle in comparison.

 

Guns are the best choice with those abilities. That's why this build uses maxed FoD damage with 2 switching arquebuses. My switching is fast enough because of the special belt I used - so I don't need Qucik Switch as a talent.

 

Edit: @JerekKruger: exactly.

Edited September 8, 2017 by Boeroer

[Lampros]

 

Wait, a gunpowder weapon can do enough damage to kill or seriously hurt an enemy with just one shot?! I have not tried one yet, because people keep saying re-loading weapons suck. But if this is indeed the case then I should try them out! Yet, then why so much criticism of those weapons?

 

Gunpowder weapons take a long time to reload, but this doesn't matter if you don't intend to reload them. This build has two arquebuses: shoot someone with a Flames of Devotion shot, switch to the second arquebus and repeat and you're going to do a lot of damage. Sure, after that you're not shooting but that's precisely when you go and tank.

 

 

Because they are not good for sustained use - like doing auto-attacks all day for example. Damage per second (dps) is indeed bad if you want to shoot with reloading and your fights are long (like on PotD). Guns are awfully slow and hence the value "damage per second" is not very high. But they hit like trucks. Damage per hit is the highest and their base damage is the highest.

 

Because of that they work very well with any damage bonus. So they are always number one choice if you have abilites wich give you a high damage boost but are limited to 1 or 2 per encounter - like Flames of Devotion, Wounding Shot/Runner's Wounding Shot and so on. With those abilites you can't do sustained damage but only spike damage - because their uses per encounter are so limited. Not 5 FoD per encounter but only 2. So they work very well with guns.

 

One or two shots with an arquebus, done with maxed Flames of Devotion (and maybe with a crit, too), will deal a ton of damage while two strikes with a dagger with FoD for example is just slapping with a wet (albeit hot) noodle in comparison.

 

Guns are the best choice with those abilities. That's why this build uses maxed FoD damage with 2 switching arquebuses. My switching is fast enough because of the special belt I used - so I don't need Qucik Switch as a talent.

 

Edit: @JerekKruger: exactly.

 

I see. But guys, that kind of constant switching also seem like too much micro-management and not worth it for me. I know I am lazy, but there is a reason I never played caster classes in various MMORPG or RPGs as mains! So no gunpowder for guys who will just stay stationary and auto-attack?

[Boeroer]

But it's just two shots at the start of the fight. Happens in seconds. After that it's pure tanking. Not that much micromanagement. THe start of the fight is loaded with micro anyway (casting buffs, doing positioning and so on).

[Lampros]

But it's just two shots at the start of the fight. Happens in seconds. After that it's pure tanking. Not that much micromanagement. THe start of the fight is loaded with micro anyway (casting buffs, doing positioning and so on).

 

Good point. Even I micro like hell at the start for tough fights...

[JerekKruger]

One feature that would be great for Deadfire would be a default starting weapon setting. As soon as combat ends, all your characters would switch back to whatever weapon(s) you'd selected for this so that you'd be ready before the next fight.

[Boeroer]

Since they promised that we get some kind of AI scripting like in Dragon Age: Origins (and they also showed some UI for it) I'm pretty confident that we can make some awesome scripts for things like "if encounter starts switch to set 1 -> attack (fire gun) -> switch to set 3 -> fire gun -> switch to set 2 -> defensive mode" or something like that.

Edited September 8, 2017 by Boeroer

[JerekKruger]

Since they promised that we get some kind of AI scripting like in Dragon Age: Origins (and they also showed some UI for it) I'm pretty confident that we can make some awesome scripts for things like "if encounter starts switch to set 1 -> attack (fire gun) -> switch to set 3 -> fire gun -> switch to set 2 -> defensive mode" or something like that.

 

I hope so, however if Deadfire works and the same way as Pillars and it goes like that then you'll have a delay before you shoot unless you already had set 1 out, and delays are unacceptable

[Boeroer]

Maybe there will be a trigger like there is now for auto-pause: right before the combat starts but it's not yet encounter-time. In this case switching would be done without any recovery.

[JerekKruger]

That would be great!

[r2d23]

What is the rationale for having low CON and high RES in this build and not vice versa?

[Ascaloth]

I recently designed a Goldpact variant of this build, taking elements from the Darcozzi Commendatore, trading the accuracy bonus from Inspiring Liberation with more utility in 'friendly' mind control via Bond of Duty. He's pretty much done - along with the rest of the party I built around the guy - but I'm struck with an inspiration for a party background that will take me a bit more time to write out in full yet. 

[Torm51]

He's a Paladin and a Diplomat, for the conversation! Obviously you get the small benefit of Will and Deflection.

 

Boer RPs a litttle bit so I think that's it. 10 Con is fine on a paladin. Personally I take Con and res. I don't find per necessary on a Paladin Alpha Strike tank. With sworn enemy, + 20 ACC of FoD, per level ability accuracy raise (+1 every level) a weapon Focus and support debuffs a 10 Per is more then enough for Flames of Devotion Alphas.

 

If I was playing solo Paladin I'd have Per and not take Res.

Edited October 25, 2017 by Torm51

[Torm51]

I recently designed a Goldpact variant of this build, taking elements from the Darcozzi Commendatore, trading the accuracy bonus from Inspiring Liberation with more utility in 'friendly' mind control via Bond of Duty. He's pretty much done - along with the rest of the party I built around the guy - but I'm struck with an inspiration for a party background that will take me a bit more time to write out in full yet.

POE 2 has made me lose any inspiration for Goldpact Knights as cool as I think they are. In Poe 2 they get no Zealous Auras as part of their "negative kit" the trade that for being able to cast sworn enemy on themselves which gives them a big DR buff. In a game with no aggro I'd only use that as a solo Paladin. Sad bear

 

No auras for a Paladin I think just plain sucks.

Edited October 25, 2017 by Torm51

[Moneo]

I love Goldpact pallies as a PC because of their reputation options. I'm also disappointed how are Goldpact pallies introduced in PoE2, but that's not the final decision, everything may be changed.

 

Personally, I think that a paladin without auras is near to worthless, especially in (full-)party gameplay.

[Torm51]

I love Goldpact pallies as a PC because of their reputation options. I'm also disappointed how are Goldpact pallies introduced in PoE2, but that's not the final decision, everything may be changed.

 

Personally, I think that a paladin without auras is near to worthless, especially in (full-)party gameplay.

I like them too.

 

 

I can agree with that though it's not final. And PoE isn't POE 2 so no reason you can't make one now. Not changing orders is just an RP thing I impose on myself so if they do stick with that it won't work for me.

[StormOwnz]

Why is the chill fog tanker than this build?

[Boeroer]

Who said it is?

[StormOwnz]

I'm running this build and the chill fog Chanter. The Paladin just gets ripped apart. Or is this subject to change later in the game?

[Torm51]

Ya if you are playing a paladin with a two hander and light armor maybe but a Paladin with plate and a shield is your best overall tank. Other classes like wizards can surpass a Paladin temporarily but on a per encounter basis a Paladin is better. I've played this game for 2000 plus hours and have never had a Paladin "ripped up". Tell us specifically how you are playing the Paladin.

[StormOwnz]

Currently at lvl 4 I'm running lay on hands, zealous focus, weapon and shield, and shielding touch.

 

My Chanter who is my main tank is running veterans recovery, ancient memory.

 

I gave both of them high con for the early game. Is it because it's early in the game that my Chanter is doing a better job at taking hits?