Current wisdom concerning Melee Wizards?

[prototype00]

So I've done a bit of reading up on the melee wiz, as I'm coming to the end of my campaign with the Juggernaut Monk, and it seemed like an interesting and quirky option.

 

I have the following observations, but please tell me if I missed anything.

 

1. Concelhauts Staff and Citzal's Lance are both two handers, so it might behoove me to build with those in mind? They benefit from any weapon focus however, so does anyone have a suggestion about which to take? And what is an optimal setup for when I'm not using the spell-weapons?

 

2. Stat wise, focus on int, might and possibly perception? Keep everything else even.

 

3. Race wise the usual suspects are good (Orleans and moon godlikes) but I'm hearing some good things about fire god likes.

 

I'm happy to take on any advice people would be kind enough to give as I usually like weighing options before making a decision.

[KDubya]

For race I always like Boreal Dwarves. The +15 accuracy against many common enemies helps a bunch. If not that I like Pale Elves for the cool look. Fire godlikes need to be below 50% endurance for their power to kick in, not sure how often you want that to happen. With reach weapons you can stay relatively safe in the back or you can pop Arcane Veil and go Jedi and never get hit.

 

Might, Int and Per around 16 with 10 everywhere else works fine.

 

When not using a summoned weapon a staff or pike could be good for the reach. One of the nice implements or the soulbound scepter could be good for a ranged weapon switch. If you take Concelhaut's staff for spell mastery you'd have that available for every battle. I'd pick a weapon focus that either has implements that you want to use or has a melee weapon that you like until you can spell mastery the summoned staff.

[Boeroer]

For a wizard tank (don't know if you're aiming at that or want a melee wizard who doesn't have to be at the front row) Arcane Veil + Hardened Veil + Wizard's Double is a nice combination. The later doesn't disappear as long as you don't get hit, which won't happen with +115 deflection on top of weapon + shield and all the other usual deflection boosters.

 

Citzal's Spirit Lance is a nice weapon and would be my no. 1 choice for a non-tank approach. But you might want to spare that spell for tougher encounters, so using Concelhaut's Parasitic Staff for trash encounters is still good. It's high base damage works well with all damage bonuses like Two Handed Style, Savage Attack and so on.

 

You can even think about Firebrand from Forgemaster's Gloves. With Deleterious Alacrity of Motion + Citzal's Martial Power + Two Handed Style and so on it also should be pretty good and also works with Scion of Flame (if you like this for your fire spells it's a nice synergy effect).

 

But it's hard to beat Citzal's Spirit Lance's carnage-like AoE attack.

 

You can also look at Llengrath's Blunt Wisdom Warding Staff. It's way better than it looks! They all wprk with the same Weapon Focus and Two Handed Style anyways.

Edited October 4, 2016 by Boeroer

[prototype00]

Question, how do you go sword and board and Concelhaut's staff/Citzal's lance? I thought the latter were all two handed weapons? What happens to your shield when you cast the spells?

 

Also, thanks for the advice so far, esp the Firebrand one, is that a good equivalent for the staff and lance?

 

By the by, what is the consensus for armour for this kind of build? Heavy or light?

Edited October 4, 2016 by prototype00

[Raven Darkholme]

You only keep your shield as long as you haven't cast the spell for staff/lance but higher deflection can be useful for casting your defensive spells at combat start.

Armour you can easily go light, damage reduction is sadly not that awesome in this game unless you get huge chunks of DR like +30 from damage shield chant.

If you solo plate is more ideal but you can easily solo without plate.

[Boeroer]

Yeah depends. For a front row tank you won't even use the summoned weapons but stick to the shield. Damage comes from spells only. You would also use thick armor then. Thick armor is working - esp. at the beginning of the game where the ratio of endurance:DR is much higher than later, when your endurace scaled a lot with level but the DR doesn't by the same amount. But it's still very useful if you get hit repeatedly. With high deflection, thick armor and Iron Skin you can shrug off most damage even if you get a lot of grazes.

 

With a wizard who wants to use the lance and stuff you would'n focus on tanking of course. Then you don't need thick armor.

 

Firebrand is on par with Concelhaut's Staff I'd say. Especially good when combined with a lot of crits like you get from Merciless Gaze + Eldritch Aim + Citzals Martial Power - because it is annihilating, doing double crit damage bonus. But it surely is not as good as the Spirit Lance. And it has no reach of course.

 

Fire Godlike works ok if you have a lot of DR (Iron Skin + thick armor + Blunting Belt), a lot of CON, use a lot of Infuse with Vital Essence and also use Flame Shield and Scion of Flame + Citzal's Martial Power. Battle Forge and Flame Shield stack, so you retaliate with nice burn damage. You can add normal retaliation, too. If you combine that with Combusting Wounds all enemies who attack you will get hit by up to 4 retaliaion strikes which will cause 4 times combusting wounds on them. You can add things like Chillfog or other pulsing spells as well as Wall of Flames and other walls to amplify the effect with Combusting Wounds. It can melt attackers really quickly. This approach works best with a weapon & shield approach because you will die if you don't have enough defense. Wizard's Double doesn't work very good here because you want to get grazed a lot and not avoid hits at all. Also you need Sura's Supper Plate (small shield) if you want the max amount of retaliations. I would even take Veteran's Recovery. Infuse with Vital Essence can help a bit with the health loss. With Battle Forged and Scion of Flame active and with the additional use of Bulwark against the Elements, you can even drop Fireball onto your own head while retaliating. Your high reflection from buffs and shield and your very high DR against burn damage will prevent that you hurt yourself too much, but all the foes will suffer big time.

Edited October 4, 2016 by Boeroer

[Raven Darkholme]

I wouldn't necessarily say you don't use the staff/lance with a tank.

When I started my solo wizard on level 3 I did the bear cave without figurine, combined with vital essence the endurance regen from staff hits is super helpul and the massive damage output is worth as much as higher defense if you can kill a dangerous target quicker.

Through Veil I had like 80+ def on 3 without shield, too that's not bad at all.

Edited October 4, 2016 by Raven Darkholme

[Boeroer]

Not too bad. But against bounties, dragons and other tough encounters it's way easier to tank with a shield and let your spells do the damaging part.

Like the Bilestomper build or the ice variant, it's very easy to play those tanks who can stand in their own hazard field without bothering. It doesn't need a lot of offensive spells, too.

 

So, if I wanted to go full tank with a wizard I wouldn't summon any weapon on a regular basis - except in the early game of course, because the staff is so good then you just can't skip it.

 

For a more hybrid and flexible approach with a lot of melee damage your strategy surely works very well. Normal enemies can't touch you a lot if you buff up - even if you're using the staff or the lance. And you can spare some spells because the lance only requires one spell use but deals damage like a fireball with every hit.

 

I don't say one of those variants is better than the other - just different playstyles, that's all. One have to decide what he likes better. The later is more active though and maybe more fun if you like positioning and hitting things with weapons.

Edited October 4, 2016 by Boeroer

[prototype00]

Ah, so there are actually two variants, one that uses the spell weapons and one that tanks and uses regular weapons, I'll have to think about this.

 

On the same subject, I'm guessing scion of flame is pretty decent? Either you are using Firebrand or you have the flame lash chant and your hefty base damage to power it?

[Boeroer]

You can have both. Firebrand in your wizard's hand AND the burning lash from a chanter both get buffed by 20%. So it's a double effect. Bigger lash numbers from higher weapon damage and again higher lash numbers from +20% lash damage. And Scion of Flame is also good for all your fire spells of course.

 

But as I said: the lance is better.

 

Firebrand and Concelhaut's Staff are on par. Firebrand has a bit more damage because of damaging III, the staff has better ACC because of being exceptional. Reach and draining help to survive with the staff while the annihilation of Firebrand can lead to very high crits. With SCion of Flame and the burning lash chant Firebrand does better damage. Thing is you need to "sacrifice" an item slot for the gloves and the button for summoning Firebrand is not where your other spells are - this can be inconvenient.

[Raven Darkholme]

Not too bad. But against bounties, dragons and other tough encounters it's way easier to tank with a shield and let your spells do the damaging part.

Like the Bilestomper build or the ice variant, it's very easy to play those tanks who can stand in their own hazard field without bothering. It doesn't need a lot of offensive spells, too.

 

So, if I wanted to go full tank with a wizard I wouldn't summon any weapon on a regular basis - except in the early game of course, because the staff is so good then you just can't skip it.

 

For a more hybrid and flexible approach with a lot of melee damage your strategy surely works very well. Normal enemies can't touch you a lot if you buff up - even if you're using the staff or the lance. And you can spare some spells because the lance only requires one spell use but deals damage like a fireball with every hit.

 

I don't say one of those variants is better than the other - just different playstyles, that's all. One have to decide what he likes better. The later is more active though and maybe more fun if you like positioning and hitting things with weapons.

Let's not forget that in some scenarios reach is more useful than a shield if you manage to use a chokepoint in a way that you are aggroed by weak enemies in the front row and you ignore those with your staff/lance and always kill second row and the weak ones last.

Doesn't work wih big bodys like bears or bigger but sometimes wonders vs humans.

[Boeroer]

That's right. Esp. when going solo. It's also a very nice tactic for solo barbs by the way.

 

 

Eh... what did I write above? I meant Llengrath's Warding Staff and not Blunt Wisdom, sorry. Corrected that.

[Dr <3]

I hate llengrath warding staff... Really, i would rather use the lvl 1 staff spell instead... Ok, it gives you some deflecion, but why a melee char would need to send away the opponets he is trying to beat? It irritates me

[Boeroer]

It's great if you get pummeled too hard or if you need a short break for rebuffing.  I like it. 

[AndreaColombo]

^ same. I'm always hoping for an excuse to use that spell because it looks so badass and is quite powerful. I guess it's based on the assumption that you don't want melee enemies aggroing your Wizard. If you're playing a melee Wizard, that's not the spell you're looking for except in the case Boeroer mentioned.

 

Tangentially the reason you dislike the staff, Dr, is the reason I dislike the Monk's Force of Anguish ability: why would I want prone enemies to be far? I want to maim them!

Edited October 4, 2016 by AndreaColombo

[Boeroer]

Then you should use The Long Pain: works with Force of Anguish AND from afar! Punch them to the end of the screen and keep hitting them. Poor enemies. And if they get up again - push them a little further.

[Raven Darkholme]

It's not useful solo, but I can see how it could be cool n a party if you wanna disengage melee enemies from your squishies.

[prototype00]

Trying to decide which is more important, Dex or Per. The Interrupt potential is quite good with the spell weapons, but Dex helps you get all the attacks you need to Interrupt. I guess the question is whether at 10 Dex (14 with items) you can get 0 recovery max attack speed with DAoM and Gauntlets of Swift Action.

[Raven Darkholme]

Dex is not a good stat, Per is much better.

[AndreaColombo]

You don't need DEX for 0 recovery but I wouldn't say it's not a good stat Though yes, PER is better if you have to choose between the two.

[DreamWayfarer]

I would say that for a melee wizard who focuses on damage with conjured weapons DEX is slightly more important, even if so little it is more of a matter of tastes, as weapon accuracy is straighforward enough to buff to the point of few misses and critting is not a Wizard's main strenght, while attacking, casting and chaining buffs faster can be helpful (and even if buffs are all fast, sometimes you just need to empty your grimmorie at once to survive.

 

For a tank Wizard however, PER is the only way.

Edited October 4, 2016 by DreamWayfarer

[prototype00]

I would say that for a melee wizard who focuses on damage with conjured weapons DEX is slightly more important, even if so little it is more of a matter of tastes, as weapon accuracy is straighforward enough to buff to the point of few misses and critting is not a Wizard's main strenght, while attacking, casting and chaining buffs faster can be helpful (and even if buffs are all fast, sometimes you just need to empty your grimmorie at once to survive.

 

For a tank Wizard however, PER is the only way.

I'm not intending to tank Dex mind, it will probably end up 14 or so with those nifty boots. I'm just wondering whether to make it one of my 3 16s to start off with:

 

Might:16 (more or less required)

Dex: 10/16

Con: 10 (with false life should be okay)

Int: 16 (I've seen some builds saying a 10 for this is okay! It rubs me the wrong way, but they may be right?)

Per: 16 (For the crit and Interrupt)

Res: 10 (minimum to not get interrupted personally)

 

I'm leaning towards the spell-weapon caster, as I've already played a tank prior, have people had success with the lightly armoured second rank version of this build?

Edited October 5, 2016 by prototype00

[Raven Darkholme]

Int is super important for wizard definitely go 16 if not max it.

Stuff like Arcane Veil and Eldritch Aim needs any duration buff you can get.

[prototype00]

Int is super important for wizard definitely go 16 if not max it.

Stuff like Arcane Veil and Eldritch Aim needs any duration buff you can get.

This is true. You probably don't want to be wasting any hammertime (time that you spend hammering foes) re-applying buffs.

 

With a new class (non-tanking wizard) I am also having to rethink my party lineup (I'd rather have two tank frontline so my second row damage dealers have a wall between them).

 

I've been running MC (Monk, so tank DPS), Pallegina (tank), Hiravais (DPS), Kana (Support and shooting booster), durance (support), grieving Mother (cc and DPS).

 

I want another tank as I will be losing MC as a monk, so it's probably going to be Kana, I can either respect him as a chanter tank or switch him out for Maneha, I hear good things about the Leech Barbarian's infinite HOF mode.

 

Suggestions?

[grausch]

 

I would say that for a melee wizard who focuses on damage with conjured weapons DEX is slightly more important, even if so little it is more of a matter of tastes, as weapon accuracy is straighforward enough to buff to the point of few misses and critting is not a Wizard's main strenght, while attacking, casting and chaining buffs faster can be helpful (and even if buffs are all fast, sometimes you just need to empty your grimmorie at once to survive.

 

For a tank Wizard however, PER is the only way.

I'm not intending to tank Dex mind, it will probably end up 14 or so with those nifty boots. I'm just wondering whether to make it one of my 3 16s to start off with:

 

Might:16 (more or less required)

Dex: 10/16

Con: 10 (with false life should be okay)

Int: 16 (I've seen some builds saying a 10 for this is okay! It rubs me the wrong way, but they may be right?)

Per: 16 (For the crit and Interrupt)

Res: 10 (minimum to not get interrupted personally)

 

I'm leaning towards the spell-weapon caster, as I've already played a tank prior, have people had success with the lightly armoured second rank version of this build?

 

 

Hi,

 

I played a solo melee wizard. If you wish you can read about the build here - http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/88590-class-build-the-frozen-lance-melee-wizard/

 

Initially i also started off with high MIG, but as my game evolved with each respec I just kept less MIG. If you have a high DEX, high PER wizard who uses Citzal's Martial Lance and Citzal's Martial Power, you can "interrupt-lock" slower opponents. I had several encounters where none of the enemies managed to land a single blow since they were constantly interrupted. I can't recall if the blast from the Lance also interrupts opponents, but it really does not matter much when you hit that fast and that hard.

 

Early game, I found the extra MIG useful as I used heavy armour, but if I were to play again, I would probably start with a build closer to my final build and use lighter armour. Depending on your armour choices, you may feel you need more MIG or more DEX and as your game evolves, you may want to change this in any case.

 

Once you get access to Citzal's Martial Power, it does not matter as much anymore as you get +8 to MIG, DEX and CON, so any lower stats will get a decent boost. I don't think you can go wrong either way as long as you keep your INT high.