Devs: Random Party Composition?

[Mysterio]

Do the devs plan on adding an option for random party composition? When a game offers a random option during set-up, I typically use it, because I enjoy having to deal with whatever I'm dealt. So I was surprised to see this wasn't an option. Instead, I have to resort to RANDOM.ORG. Please say this is easy to add and you plan on doing so.

[PinkRose]

I think this was mentioned back in the beta phase as well.

[RedPred]

I subscribe the request for sure. So easy and funny feature, it will be great!

[kurtalb1]

I randomly determine party size and then composition before each Quest Mode scenario (I'm using a set pool of six characters for now). I really enjoy how this mixes up team members and party size. It allows for different play strategies. I guess if the game randomized these elements itself, I would be for it.

[hfm]

I mentioned this at one point as well. Love to see it.

[Ripe]

Do the devs plan on adding an option for random party composition? When a game offers a random option during set-up, I typically use it, because I enjoy having to deal with whatever I'm dealt. So I was surprised to see this wasn't an option. Instead, I have to resort to RANDOM.ORG. Please say this is easy to add and you plan on doing so.

Not sure that option would be of much use considering you could end up with party that can't complete adventure path. As easy as Rise of the Runelords is, there are some party set ups that would find completing the AP next to impossible.

 

It might be of some use in Quest mode but in Story mode... not really.

[PinkRose]

I'll take your challenge.

What composition do you think can't complete the adventure path?

Edited August 17, 2016 by PinkRose

[Loswaith]

+1 from me too , I like randomising characters to vary playthroughs.

 

 

Do the devs plan on adding an option for random party composition? When a game offers a random option during set-up, I typically use it, because I enjoy having to deal with whatever I'm dealt. So I was surprised to see this wasn't an option. Instead, I have to resort to RANDOM.ORG. Please say this is easy to add and you plan on doing so.

Not sure that option would be of much use considering you could end up with party that can't complete adventure path. As easy as Rise of the Runelords is, there are some party set ups that would find completing the AP next to impossible.

 

It might be of some use in Quest mode but in Story mode... not really.

 

Well doesn't the factor that you just cant win an adventure path with any party setup (no matter what you do) show a real issue with the design of the adventures in the first place. More difficult is fair enough, impossible is an issue.

It is quite possible for a free player to only ever have the starting two characters for the entire game, even if it is unlikely (sure not as big an issue for the tabletop as you get more characters to start with).  Especially if they plan to buy the game as a bundle down the line (but want to keep playing) and know gold spent buying characters wont be refunded, or focus on buying the adventures.

Edited August 19, 2016 by Loswaith

[Bajie]

I'll take your challenge.

What composition do you think can't complete the adventure path?

Damn...times like this, I wish i'm more familiar with storymode ^^

 

On topic, a few weeks back, i started rolling d6 to for party number and a d9 i think for party composition. Needless to say end up on 4 caster party and ended up wiped out on BlackFang.

 

Goodtimes..goodtimes. ^^

[Bajie]

 

Well doesn't the factor that you just cant win an adventure path with any party setup (no matter what you do) show a real issue with the design of the adventures in the first place. More difficult is fair enough, impossible is an issue.

It is quite possible for a free player to only ever have the starting two characters for the entire game, even if it is unlikely (sure not as big an issue for the tabletop as you get more characters to start with).  Especially if they plan to buy the game as a bundle down the line (but want to keep playing) and know gold spent buying characters wont be refunded, or focus on buying the adventures.

I think thats one of the selling point of the game digitally and the difference with the base tabletop.

 

In the tabletop, you always have the option of switching characters. Here, its either buy that new hero or get stuck/have a difficulty completing something. Its like some app that leys you play the first 3 levels free but then ask to purchase it if you want to continue..only PAthfinder doesnt stop you from playing, it just makes it very very difficult. ^^

 

I remember wanting to complete B-AD2 with Meri and just the Priestess and saving the gold for the extra packages but somewhere along sandpoint until i decided to waste gp to purchase Seelah solo rather than fail farming for 20k gold.

[boxerboyhomer]

Well doesn't the factor that you just cant win an adventure path with any party setup (no matter what you do) show a real issue with the design of the adventures in the first place. More difficult is fair enough, impossible is an issue.

 

I disagree that there's an issue.  

 

The only party setups that might not be able to complete any adventure might be solo setups.  

 

But even the Paizo devs have indicated that the adventures aren't balanced around solo play, nor do they intend them to be.  They also freely state that if you play solo, which is completely supported, and you encounter a completely unbeatable encounter, that you are free to modify the encounter by drawing a new card to encounter.  Granted this isn't supported by the app.  In fact, here's the relevant text from the physical game rulebook (page 19): (emphasis mine)

 

STRATEGY: ADVICE FOR SOLO PLAY

Solo play is particularly good for quickly completing scenarios to

advance your character if you want to catch up to other players.

Not all characters should be considered equal for solo play.

 

For example, Lem is quite good at helping other characters—but

when there are no other characters, he’s a lot less useful. Ezren

doesn’t have any blessings, so when no one else can give him

any, his progress might be inhibited. Merisiel, on the other hand,

is great for solo play, because she gains bonuses when no one

is at her location.

 

You can also play multiple characters if you like; we suggest

you try solo play with 2 characters. Treat each character as

if he were being played by a separate player (so if you’re

playing Sajan and Valeros, advance the blessings deck at the

start of Sajan’s turn and a t the start of Valeros’s turn).

 

Some cards are particularly difficult in solo play. If your character

can’t ever get out of the Treacherous Cave, your scenario will grind

to a halt. When you encounter such a card, remove it from the game

and replace it with another card of the same type that roughly

matches its power level but isn’t quite so impossible to overcome

 

Here a quote from Mike the original creator himself: https://boardgamegeek.com/article/12933427#12933427

 

It is definitely true, though, that we designed many elements of the game to challenge multiple characters at the same time. Every now and then, you'll hit something that your solo character just can't make it through, and we wanted to give you the option of, rather than tossing out that entire session, just drawing something else you think is about the same difficulty and move on. (You don't have to take that option, of course.)

 

Mike

 

But regardless, I don't think it's accurate to say it's an issue that that some adventures are impossible to complete with any party setup.  Especially since it's not been proven that there is such a setup that would be unable to complete every adventure.  

[Longshot11]

I'll take your challenge.

What composition do you think can't complete the adventure path?

Any solo caster will generally be in trouble, but particularly solo Ezren (who can't hold blessings in his deck) who'll have to beat a Combat 29 check in AD5 against a monster immune to attack spells. Good luck with that.

 

Also, the final scenario of the adventure path for any character/s who didn't stock up on all possible ways of" examine and rearrange" (Magic Spyglass, Augury, Scrying, Revelation Quill...), barring an amazing luck during the location deck shuffle. You CANNOT forfeit that scenario (i.e. wait out the blessings timer), so all perma-death characters who did not optimize their deck for a challenge they didn't know is coming - they might as well pack it up and go home (one more reason I find the 'perma-death' concept ridiculous, but who am I to tell people how to spend their time).

[Pediatron]

Perhaps this is a good arena for the developers to play with challenges. They have already had one solo specific character daily challenge. Perhaps: accomplish x scenario with a 6 player party made up of specific A B C and D character for a reward of such and such gold or item.

[Ripe]

I'll take your challenge.

What composition do you think can't complete the adventure path?

Talking from personal experience,  party comprising of Merisiel, Sajan, Valeros, Amiri, Seelah and Harsk will have a lot of fun trying to beat Local Heroes scenario (considered one of the easiest in whole AP) due to their d6's and d4's in Inteligence and needing to close Academy...

Edited August 19, 2016 by Ripe

[Chris_R]

Talking from personal experience,  party comprising of Merisiel, Sajan, Valeros, Amiri, Seelah and Harsk will have a lot of fun trying to beat Local Heroes scenario (considered one of the easiest in whole AP) due to their d6's and d4's in Inteligence and needing to close Academy...

 

 

Ha ha! If I were asked what my speciality in this game is, my answer would be 'finding new, embarrassing ways to fail Local Heroes'. I can't wait until we get class decks so I can fail Local Heroes with even more characters.

 

I'm like the Michael Phelps of failing Local Heroes.

[wakasm]

I do agree, beating all of Rise of the Runelords should be possible with any composition.   It might take some work.  It might take some shuffling of needed cards and grinding for specific allies, spells, and items just to pass certain bottlenecks, but it should all be doable with enough grit and luck.

 

 

[Ripe]

I do agree, beating all of Rise of the Runelords should be possible with any composition.   It might take some work.  It might take some shuffling of needed cards and grinding for specific allies, spells, and items just to pass certain bottlenecks, but it should all be doable with enough grit and luck.

As already mentioned, solo Ezren will find 5-5 next to impossible due to inability to use spells against scenario Villain. Other spellcasters can help their check with blessings but Ezren doesn't have access to them other then what he might pick during the scenario.

 

Bottom line, Pathfinder is not designed with intent of every party composition being able to complete AP. Especially in Solo play. In fact, Rise of the Runelords Rulebook that came with the physical game had this to say about Solo play:

 

Strategy: Advice for Solo Play

Solo play is particularly good for quickly completing scenarios to advance your character if you want to catch up to other players.

Not all characters should be considered equal for solo play.

For example, Lem is quite good at helping other characters—but when there are no other characters, he’s a lot less useful. Ezren doesn’t have any blessings, so when no one else can give him any, his progress might be inhibited. Merisiel, on the other hand, is great for solo play, because she gains bonuses when no one is at her location.

You can also play multiple characters if you like; we suggest you try solo play with 2 characters. Treat each character as if he were being played by a separate player (so if you’re playing Sajan and Valeros, advance the blessings deck at the start of Sajan’s turn and at the start of Valeros’s turn).

Some cards are particularly difficult in solo play. If your character can’t ever get out of the Treacherous Cave, your scenario will grind to a halt. When you encounter such a card, remove it from the game and replace it with another card of the same type that roughly matches its power level but isn’t quite so impossible to overcome.

There is similar advice in both Skulls & Shackles and Wrath of the Righteous Rulebooks and I expect to find it in Mummy Mask rulebook as well.

Edited August 20, 2016 by Ripe

[Nathan Davis]

I also would like a party randomization button. I'm looking into it. Interface-wise, it would be easiest if the party size was also randomized. Would that work for y'all?

[ryanmrich]

I also would like a party randomization button. I'm looking into it. Interface-wise, it would be easiest if the party size was also randomized. Would that work for y'allDo it!  

Do it!

 

when playing the physical game (usually just myself and ex-roommate, but sometimes with my fiancee and his) I usually take a character that fills out the party.  If they take spell casters and tanks, I pick a thief. If he plays utility I pick a fighter type. Some balance would be necessary for 'random' parties. Harsk, Valeros and Amiri might kick major butt, but Barriers and checks that require Intelligence and Wisdom will throw a wrench in the works fairly often. Same with a party of Ezran, Seoni, Lini and Lem; they will inevitably need some muscle.

[Mysterio]

I also would like a party randomization button. I'm looking into it. Interface-wise, it would be easiest if the party size was also randomized. Would that work for y'all?

Sure!  Sentinels of the Multiverse does this with the number of heroes when the player selects random.

[kurtalb1]

I also would like a party randomization button. I'm looking into it. Interface-wise, it would be easiest if the party size was also randomized. Would that work for y'all?

 

Considering I am already doing this on my own in Quest Mode, I would find it  very useful.

[Slide87]

if randomness was in a certain way right to not create impossible playthroughs,I agree