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Just Pause Button, PLEASE

pause suggestion

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18 replies to this topic

#1
Alweth

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Obsidian, please add a binding to just pause the game, and not unpause it. It's super annoying to accidentally unpause an auto-pause when you're trying to pause. You have a bind for scouting on or off, so you should definitely have a button for Pause On or something.


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#2
InsaneCommander

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Even worse: when it happens 2 or 3 times in sequence.

 

This has been discussed before. They could give different keys for pause/unpause or prevent unpause right after pausing.



#3
anameforobsidian

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I drastically prefer the simplicity of the current method.  If you unpause after autopause, just press the spacebar again.


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#4
gunman78

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I drastically prefer the simplicity of the current method.  If you unpause after autopause, just press the spacebar again.

 

The reason people want separate buttons is because you can accidentally unpause the game, when you want to pause. You hit the space button just a fraction of second after the game auto-pauses for you for whatever action, and you have the game unpaused again.


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#5
Jojobobo

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You set the situations when it auto-pauses, so I'm not really seeing the issue here. Either pause yourself all the time, or the let auto-pause do its job.



#6
Keldaur

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I am not understanding. You can pause using spacebar. Is that what you are asking for ?



#7
Labadal

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I never had an issue with this in all the hours I played.



#8
Loren Tyr

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I am not understanding. You can pause using spacebar. Is that what you are asking for ?

 

The problem is that if you hit the space bar just as an auto-pause kicks in, you actually unpause again. I agree this can be really annoying. To just "let auto-pause do its job" as suggested isn't really an option, in my experience (and apparently that of others) there are plenty of situations where I will want to pause that aren't covered by any auto-pause. Depends on play style how much this affects you I suppose.

 

I don't think there should be a separate button for unpause though. A short cooldown specifically on auto-pauses that prevents unpausing would be much better I think, especially in combination with a slider bar in the auto-pause settings menu with which you can change the cooldown time. This way the issue is effectively addressed for people who are affected by it, but does not impact other players who aren't (of which, as the thread already shows, there are plenty as well).


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#9
gunman78

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You set the situations when it auto-pauses, so I'm not really seeing the issue here. Either pause yourself all the time, or the let auto-pause do its job.

 

When you set the game to auto pause when a spell it cast, it also auto pauses when an enemy cast a spell. When you encounter large group of enemies with spellcasters, it happens frequently for the game to auto pause when you don't expect and you are just hitting the space button to pause it yourself.

 

Let me give you an example. When you spot an enemy group the game auto pauses, but the combat is not started yet, so the Durance inspiring radiance button is grayed. I want to manually pause the game again the second the combat starts, to trigger the inspiring radiance before my party fires the first salvo, but if one enemy cast a fast spell or ability right at the start of the combat, when I hit pause the game just auto paused so I accidentally unpaused and I lose seconds until I realize I have to hit space again,


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#10
InsaneCommander

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This could be an option for the players that want it. Nobody else would be affected.

 

Another example not covered by autopause is pathfinding. Sometimes you need to bring back that melee character that is running to the opposite direction of the enemy, just because he couldn't move between your other characters.


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#11
Jojobobo

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You set the situations when it auto-pauses, so I'm not really seeing the issue here. Either pause yourself all the time, or the let auto-pause do its job.

Let me give you an example. When you spot an enemy group the game auto pauses, but the combat is not started yet, so the Durance inspiring radiance button is grayed. I want to manually pause the game again the second the combat starts, to trigger the inspiring radiance before my party fires the first salvo, but if one enemy cast a fast spell or ability right at the start of the combat, when I hit pause the game just auto paused so I accidentally unpaused and I lose seconds until I realize I have to hit space again,

Spell casting takes a relatively long time, has a very visual animation and is easy to spot. I'd say it's still easy to manually pause in these situations, if there's any need at all. Granted I solo PotD, so I'm perhaps a little unsympathetic the the rankles of lower difficulty that people can have problems with, but still they are slow animations and they are easy to spot so I'm not seeing a dire need for extra options. Observe the situation, and pause.

 

The thing I put an auto-pause on for is hidden objects, as I'd find my character would discover and run into them during combat trying to find better positioning before I could do a damn thing about it. Spell casting is certainly slow enough that so long as you're playing some attention you should be able to get out of the way in time.

 

This could be an option for the players that want it. Nobody else would be affected.

 

Another example not covered by autopause is pathfinding. Sometimes you need to bring back that melee character that is running to the opposite direction of the enemy, just because he couldn't move between your other characters.

It would affect new players, who would be confused by the various pause options (personally I do like one easily accessibly pause option, I play with the built in MacBook touch pad so the pause keypad is extremely handy to me) and so I don't think it's a good idea. Anything that makes a game more confusing to new players makes it less accessible and means there will be less buyers in the future - and as we all want a nice spangly sequel (plus existing features would be factored in for a sequel, so even if PoE has a player base now we should all consider sequel players to be fresh-faced newbies) I wouldn't be in favour of that. If this was an established problem in real time with pause games and everyone going into them knew what the score was then maybe, but it's not so I don't think there's any point muddying the waters.


Edited by Jojobobo, 26 June 2016 - 01:23 PM.


#12
Fenixp

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Why are you guys acting like it's either a toggle button or two separate buttons? We live in amazing times with such technological marvels as being able to use over 100 keys on standard keyboards! And you can map every single one of these keys to a unique function too! Isn't that grand?

There's absolutely no reason to not implement such a feature (and "it'll confuse n00bs" argument is pretty dumb, it doesn't have to get tutorialized, just put good old "Pause: Toggle", "Pause" and "Unpause" keys in the key config menu. I'm pretty sure it won't be any more confusing than separate "move", "interact" and "attack" buttons.)
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#13
Loren Tyr

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It would affect new players, who would be confused by the various pause options (personally I do like one easily accessibly pause option, I play with the built in MacBook touch pad so the pause keypad is extremely handy to me) and so I don't think it's a good idea. Anything that makes a game more confusing to new players makes it less accessible and means there will be less buyers in the future - and as we all want a nice spangly sequel (plus existing features would be factored in for a sequel, so even if PoE has a player base now we should all consider sequel players to be fresh-faced newbies) I wouldn't be in favour of that. If this was an established problem in real time with pause games and everyone going into them knew what the score was then maybe, but it's not so I don't think there's any point muddying the waters.

 

 

Exactly how is an auto-pause cooldown slider in the auto-pause menu confusing? It's not a difficult concept, just slap a tooltip on it and it'll be fine. There's, like, twenty options in that menu already, one more isn't going to do any harm. 


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#14
Jojobobo

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It's rote in games for pause and unpause to be one button, so yes I think making that not the case is a little confusing. I think if you need a tooltip to explain something, then it's obvious its function isn't readily apparent.

 

But I guess if people are desperate for it, perhaps as Fenixp says leaving the Pause Toggle as space by default but having the Pause/Unpause buttons unbound as default wouldn't make anything additionally confusing as people would only be assigning them if they looked into it and felt there was a need.


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#15
gunman78

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Spell casting takes a relatively long time, has a very visual animation and is easy to spot. I'd say it's still easy to manually pause in these situations, if there's any need at all. Granted I solo PotD, so I'm perhaps a little unsympathetic the the rankles of lower difficulty that people can have problems with, but still they are slow animations and they are easy to spot so I'm not seeing a dire need for extra options. Observe the situation, and pause.

 

 

It's not only about spells, but also about abilities, some of which are used instantly at the start of combat by some enemies and they also auto pause the game. And this has nothing to do with the difficulty level, or perhaps trying to spot when an enemy uses an ability when the screen is crowded with 10-20 creatures bunched together and spell visual effects is a difficulty level in itself. Playing solo or on some difficulty level is not an argument, this is an RPG and the freedom of playing in as many ways, builds and party compositions as possible should be of prime importance.

 

Anyway this is just a minor request that is potentially easy to be implemented, there are bigger issues that I won't press because I realize it would be too difficult to be changed at this point (such as the visual mess described above, when some lighting effects such as from blights obscures the view and you can't spot anything around them).

 

Also why not auto-pause when chanter has enough rites recited to trigger a chant ? You also have to observe the number of rites and manually pause as soon there are three or four of them (and this is another scenario you could accidentally unpause the game)


Edited by gunman78, 27 June 2016 - 01:03 AM.

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#16
Loren Tyr

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It's rote in games for pause and unpause to be one button, so yes I think making that not the case is a little confusing. I think if you need a tooltip to explain something, then it's obvious its function isn't readily apparent.

 

But I guess if people are desperate for it, perhaps as Fenixp says leaving the Pause Toggle as space by default but having the Pause/Unpause buttons unbound as default wouldn't make anything additionally confusing as people would only be assigning them if they looked into it and felt there was a need.

 

Except that I never proposed splitting pause and unpause into two buttons (though having that as an option in the key mapping menu seems like a good idea as well). I'm suggesting an *optional* cooldown that briefly prevents unpausing after auto-pause. This is a fairly simple concept, presumably apparent to most people from the menu label already and otherwise clarified by the accompanying tooltip.

 

Besides that, if you're honestly opposed to options whose function is not readily apparent from the menu label alone, you must favour removing the various existing options to which that applies as well. Including your precious PotD (then again, the new players whose mental well-being you're so concerned with are unlikely to use that anyway, so that would be a splendid idea in that regard).



#17
Sir Ray of Light

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The problem is that if you hit the space bar just as an auto-pause kicks in, you actually unpause again. I agree this can be really annoying. To just "let auto-pause do its job" as suggested isn't really an option, in my experience (and apparently that of others) there are plenty of situations where I will want to pause that aren't covered by any auto-pause. Depends on play style how much this affects you I suppose.


I’ve played BG1/2, IWD1/2, P:T, and PoE. I definitely agree that “accidental un-pause” happens from time to time. I’m a really careful player, but I’ve certainly ran into traps because of a badly timed auto-pause/space-bar combination. I also think that this issue is one reason why I’ve never used a lot of auto-pause options. (Another reason is that extensive use of auto-pause does get annoying in many fights/situations. That’s why I’ve never understood the “you can play these as turn-based games” argument. That must take forever and be as repetitive as photocopying a book.)

I’m not a hardcore player, and I’d probably have no real need to use distinct keys for “pause”, “unpause”, “toggle pause”, but I think they would be a nice addition to RTWP games. Using them would be completely optional and up to the player.
 

 

I don't think there should be a separate button for unpause though. A short cooldown specifically on auto-pauses that prevents unpausing would be much better I think, especially in combination with a slider bar in the auto-pause settings menu with which you can change the cooldown time. This way the issue is effectively addressed for people who are affected by it, but does not impact other players who aren't (of which, as the thread already shows, there are plenty as well).


I don’t think the cooldown idea would solve the underlying problem. It would just give us a bigger margin of “error”. It would also really annoy me having to wait for $x milliseconds before I could move out of an auto-pause state. I’d have *a lot* of premature, and therefor non-registered, space-bar presses. That would probably drive me crazy.

I’d very much prefer distinct key mappings. That would probably be much simpler to implement, too.
 

 

Granted I solo PotD, so I'm perhaps a little unsympathetic the the rankles of lower difficulty that people can have problems with


Then you are clearly not the target audience for an idea like this, because you don’t play the game in the same way most other people do.
 

 

But I guess if people are desperate for it, perhaps as Fenixp says leaving the Pause Toggle as space by default but having the Pause/Unpause buttons unbound as default wouldn't make anything additionally confusing as people would only be assigning them if they looked into it and felt there was a need.


I agree. That’s the implementation I would go for.
 

 

Also why not auto-pause when chanter has enough rites recited to trigger a chant ?


I’d like to experiment with that. I feel that I’ve disregarded my Chanter quite a bit because I was too busy watching my Cipher’s meter. I don’t know if I’m the best example, but there are a finite number of things I can keep track of in a RTWP game without losing interest because it just starts taking too long to micro-manage everything.
 

[Edit: Sorry for not adding author’s names to quotes. I tried to figure this out for a few minutes, but the editor gave me a hard time, and I couldn’t really be bothered.]


Edited by Sir Ray of Light, 28 June 2016 - 05:36 PM.


#18
Kaylon

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For me the reason are a few scripted fights where auto pause isn't working. The obvious example is the fight with Thaos where you have to do Alt+TAB to be able to pause the fight right at the beginning. 



#19
Loren Tyr

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I don’t think the cooldown idea would solve the underlying problem. It would just give us a bigger margin of “error”. It would also really annoy me having to wait for $x milliseconds before I could move out of an auto-pause state. I’d have *a lot* of premature, and therefor non-registered, space-bar presses. That would probably drive me crazy.

I’d very much prefer distinct key mappings. That would probably be much simpler to implement, too.
 

 

The margin would probably be wide enough (even with 0.5 - 1s cooldown), though. Though in some cases I agree the wait might be annoying, true. That could be fixed by tweaking it slightly so that a second unpause does unpause. But what works best will definitely depend on play style, optional separate key mappings might work better for others. Both options are very easy to implement though (though the key bindings are certainly the easiest), in terms of developer workload there'd be very little reason not to add them both. 


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