Snakeskin Tunic can absorb damage after being revealed for +Dex on the check

[Longshot11]

- Revealing the Sankeskin to add +1 to your Dexterity combat is *playing an Armor card on the check*

- this mean, on a failed check, you shouldn't be able to play Armor card again to absorb damage (arguably, Shields may be exception to this)

- instead, player can Recharge/Bury the Snakeskin to negate damage on the check that it was Revealed on

[jtrowell]

- Revealing the Sankeskin to add +1 to your Dexterity combat is *playing an Armor card on the check*

- this mean, on a failed check, you shouldn't be able to play Armor card again to absorb damage (arguably, Shields may be exception to this)

- instead, player can Recharge/Bury the Snakeskin to negate damage on the check that it was Revealed on

 

I think that it's correct : revealing the card means that it's still in your hand so available, and if you discard or recharge it to prevent damage you still only played one armor card on this check.

[Longshot11]

 

- Revealing the Sankeskin to add +1 to your Dexterity combat is *playing an Armor card on the check*

- this mean, on a failed check, you shouldn't be able to play Armor card again to absorb damage (arguably, Shields may be exception to this)

- instead, player can Recharge/Bury the Snakeskin to negate damage on the check that it was Revealed on

 

I think that it's correct : revealing the card means that it's still in your hand so available, and if you discard or recharge it to prevent damage you still only played one armor card on this check.

 

Yes, it IS available, but it also count as 'playing an Armor card on the check' and therefore playing it to prevent damage breaks the "one card per type per check" rule.

[jtrowell]

Why does it break the rule ? You still only played only *one* armor card on the check, you simply used two different powers of the same card.

 

Or was it question of a different armor being used on the check that the snakeskin armor gave the +1 ? In that case I would agree that it should not be allowed.

[_Harwin_]

Is playing the armor afterwards for damage "playing armor on the check"?  I always thought you could discard/recharge/bury that or other armor for damage after revealing snake skin.

 

At least, that's how I remember playing the physical version - although certainly we could have played it wrong.

[Nightfind]

From page 12 of the PDF of the Rules: 

 

Remember that players may

not play more than 1 of each card type during a check, so if you

previously played a spell to affect the check, you may not play a

spell to reduce damage

[Longshot11]

Why does it break the rule ? You still only played only *one* armor card on the check, you simply used two different powers of the same card.

 

Or was it question of a different armor being used on the check that the snakeskin armor gave the +1 ? In that case I would agree that it should not be allowed.

The fact that it's the same card doesn't matter. For rules purposes, it counts as playing Armor card twice.

[Longshot11]

Is playing the armor afterwards for damage "playing armor on the check"?  I always thought you could discard/recharge/bury that or other armor for damage after revealing snake skin.

 

At least, that's how I remember playing the physical version - although certainly we could have played it wrong.

"Taking Damage if Necessary" step is part of the "Attempt the Check" phase, so yes, it counts.

 

And it's true that the same rule applies to damage-prevention spells, but that's why most of them say "You may play this card even if you played another spell on the check" (they're similar to the shields in that manner; so even if you didn't fight with a spell, you can play two Arcane Armors at the same time to prevent damage)

[_Harwin_]

Oh yeah - I remember we had to be careful about that with spells, just kept forgetting about it with armor.

Thanks for the clarifications Nightfind and Longshot.

[Spydurmn]

Pretty sure the Blackcloth armor acts exactly like Longshot11 describes that it should.  I use it to reveal for the extra 1, and fail the combat check, I am not allowed to use the armor to stop the damage.  I remember being confused as to why I couldn't use it, then it clicked, two use the same card on the same check twice is a no-no.  I will try to pay more attention next time I fail a check with this armor.  Bottom line, pretty sure Longshot11 is correct that this is a bug. 

Edited June 13, 2016 by Spydurmn

[Spydurmn]

I was wrong.  Blackcloth is letting me add the 1 and stop damage.  Maybe all of the reveal armors need to be looked at?

[Hannibal_PJV]

Well then there is a common codepath so it will be easier to fix.

Edited June 16, 2016 by Hannibal_PJV

[Faranim]

Did anyone look on the paizo site? I would think this exact question is answered there somewhere.

 

Personally, I think it should be legal to reveal an armor during the check, and then recharge or bury that armor to absorb damage.

 

The harder question - if you have 2 armors, can you reveal 1 to help the combat roll, but then bury or recharge the other one for damage? When playing the physical version, I would think yes, but I'm not sure what the technical rule is. I always in my head consider the part where you roll for combat, a separate phase from the part where you take damage.

 

Do the spells like arcane armor, mirror image, etc have verbiage that explicitly allows you to play additional spells on the check? I think that should tie in to the way this is coded somehow.

[Longshot11]

The harder question - if you have 2 armors, can you reveal 1 to help the combat roll, but then bury or recharge the other one for damage? When playing the physical version, I would think yes, ...

No. I don't even know who introduced the idea that the issue have to do with playing the same card, but the game doesn't care about the name of the card - it cares that , from rules 'point of view' you're playing *two Armor-type cards* (regardless that its the same card with two different powers!) - which is forbidden.

[Hannibal_PJV]

The taking damage is the same phase as trying the combat check, so only one armour is allowed.

[ArchSenex]

The rulebook actually specifically calls out the scenario that if you play a type of card on a check, you cannot play that type of card on the absorb.  They use spell as an example, but armor counts too.  Whether or not it's the same card isn't relevant.

 

It's also an advantage of shields.  There are shields that can be played even if you've played other armors, so you can use those twice, or two different ones, etc.

[Longshot11]

It's also an advantage of shields.  There are shields that can be played even if you've played other armors, so you can use those twice, or two different ones, etc.

You shouldn't be allowed to play the same shield twice (because then you should be able to play it an infinity number of times) - there's a FAQ at Paizo :

 

http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1gk#v5748eaic9rtf

[ArchSenex]

 

It's also an advantage of shields.  There are shields that can be played even if you've played other armors, so you can use those twice, or two different ones, etc.

You shouldn't be allowed to play the same shield twice (because then you should be able to play it an infinity number of times) - there's a FAQ at Paizo :

 

http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1gk#v5748eaic9rtf

 

Ah, ok.  Looks like you CAN play twice, but it can only be one reveal, so if it has a reveal and play (and says can be played if you've already played an X) it should work.

[Sylvanta]

- Revealing the Sankeskin to add +1 to your Dexterity combat is *playing an Armor card on the check*

- this mean, on a failed check, you shouldn't be able to play Armor card again to absorb damage (arguably, Shields may be exception to this)

- instead, player can Recharge/Bury the Snakeskin to negate damage on the check that it was Revealed on

 

Longshot is quite correct here.  One card per type per check unless the card states otherwise.  I'll make sure we get it addressed.  Thanks for bringing it up!

[Longshot11]

 

- Revealing the Sankeskin to add +1 to your Dexterity combat is *playing an Armor card on the check*

- this mean, on a failed check, you shouldn't be able to play Armor card again to absorb damage (arguably, Shields may be exception to this)

- instead, player can Recharge/Bury the Snakeskin to negate damage on the check that it was Revealed on

 

Longshot is quite correct here.  One card per type per check unless the card states otherwise.  I'll make sure we get it addressed.  Thanks for bringing it up!

 

Thanks! I just want to add that there are report for Blackcloth armor having the same issue (and presumably, any other armor that can be revealed on a check )

[ArchSenex]

I wouldn't be surprised if the damage step is just a separate "check" right now. Trying to remember if I've been able to play two items in similar vein.