US Election 2016, part II

[Guard Dog]

 

He didn't say a lot but by God this man has my vote: http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/09/opinions/why-running-for-president-johnson/index.html

 

I had never heard of him, and barely the Libertarian party neither. But, if I would face the choice of either Trump or Clinton, I'd definitely pick this guy. He seems level-headed, smart and fit for all sorts of endeavours. He seems to have the capacity for a safe and sound presidency, and that's just my getting taken in by a first impression.

 

If you want to learn more click the link in my sig.

[Meshugger]

...is nothing compared to the reality of actually living in Russia compared to the USA. So I say  never  let him be able to return home...having to live in countries like Russia is fitting punishment

 

Tell us more, what is it like living in Russia?

[IndiraLightfoot]

Now, onto the obvious question: Does he stand a chance? Or is it rather a snowball's in hell?

 

EDIT: There are obviously polls showing how disliked Trump and Clinton are (which isn't good if you have ambitions to lead by anything than dictatorship, and barely even then.)

Edited June 10, 2016 by IndiraLightfoot

[BruceVC]

 

...is nothing compared to the reality of actually living in Russia compared to the USA. So I say  never  let him be able to return home...having to live in countries like Russia is fitting punishment

 

Tell us more, what is it like living in Russia?

 

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/01/25/worrying-data-raise-russia-recession-odds-economist.html

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2016/01/11/russias-recession-may-stick-around-longer-as-ruble-weakens/#219d8ca0241b

 

http://www.dw.com/en/russias-recession-woes-deepen-amid-oil-slump/a-18990311

[BruceVC]

 Hillary Clinton does not give a rats bitten a-s about the people of the United States 

GD ...thats  a terrible thing to say about Hilary Clinton, of course she cares?

[Longknife]

 

I like how we're just writing off her email scandal like it's no biggie. I've said before that indictment or no, this is ABSOLUTELY going to bite her in the ass. You do not move forward without problem if half your own staff and colleagues condemn what you've done. Plus wtf is this:

 

Edward Snowden happens across some classified info he thinks the people have a right to know, releases it, and gets called terms as dramatic as "terrorist." He cannot return to the USA without facing serious charges that'd see him behind bars for life.

 

Hillary Clinton sets up a private server with the direct intent of circumventing the law while also negligently doing so knowing the National Security servers are subjected to dozens of break-in attempts per day and in doing so jeoprodizes - amongst other things - the names and identities of FBI and CIA agents, and she's running for president.

 

To double down, Hillary Clinton condemns Edward Snowden. In her own words:

 

 

“He broke the laws of the United States,” she said. “He could have been a whistleblower, he could have gotten all the protections of a whistleblower. He chose not to do that. He stole very important information that has fallen into the wrong hands so I think he should not be brought home without facing the music.”

 

 

Please explain how her words apply to Snowden but not to herself. Did she break the law? Yes. She blatantly mishandled classified documents in a manner that should've been painfully obvious to her, and she did so with what appears to be the direct intent of circumventing laws regarding documentation and processing of such documents. Has information fallen into the wrong hands? Russia sure insists it did.

 

But this hypocrite is apparently a super qualified person to lead this country because hot damn she has a vagina. Yeah ok.

Snowden is a  traitor and deserves to spend the rest of his life in jail but he can live out the rest of his days is his " Russian heaven"  ..by now he would have realized the false image Putin has been projecting is nothing compared to the reality of actually living in Russia compared to the USA. So I say  never  let him be able to return home...having to live in countries like Russia is fitting punishment

 

And the two examples are NOTHING  alike, I am genuinely  surprised you can find commonality between them,  this just demonstrates your bias towards Hilary as you are using such a low bar

 

 

Hilary had her own email domain for convenience reasons around using things like certain devices. It should have been addressed by White House security but it was allowed to continue

 

She didnt do it to attack or undermine the entire USA

 

Snowden worked  at the NSA and deliberately stole confidential  information and then shared it with foreign countries who have numerous reasons to undermine the USA . He knowingly did this and knew this had serious consequences in an attempt to undermine the entire security system of the USA. He is a traitor, this should be unequivocal. Hilary Clinton is nothing like Snowden, she is no traitor and is a  patriot and cares for the well being of the USA    

 

 

 

Ok Bruce I know this is really hard since you're distracted by Hillary's magical shiny vagina and all, but I'm gonna try and spell it out for you.

 

Snowden leaked info to US citizens because he showed genuine concern for the well-being and personal liberties of the people. It was information the American people had zero access to that they may have cared to know about. He didn't do it to attack the USA, he didn't do it to undermine it. He did it because he felt the US citizens had a right to know what was going on with their government and the ways they may encroach on individual privacy. He did his act out of concern, a concern that thousands of people around the globe appreciate. It's interesting to note that while Snowden enjoys a mix and positive and negative reception in the USA (older generations dislike him, younger generations like him), USA's allies are almost universally fond of the guy.

 

 

Hillary? Convenience is the most weaksauce ****ing excuse one could possibly have when we're talking about top secret classified information. If I were Secretary of State and it's more convenient for me to have the nuclear missle launch codes on my bathroom wall at home, that doesn't make it smart or safe. You're basically suggesting to me that if it's convenient or easier for Hillary to do it her way, then **** the laws, right? Who needs those anyways? The thing is Clinton isn't stupid and would've had every opportunity to realize how illegal that is and how it undermines the very laws put in place regarding her work, and yet she did it. The question is why would she do this if she knows full well it's illegal and why does she continue to act non-compliant in regards to the investigation moving forward? IT'S AS IF SHE'S BEEN DOING SOMETHING BAD OR SOMETHIN'!!

 

Look at this, that's in the news today. Do you not see how that kind of information, when in the wrong hands, jeoprodizes the lives of US military and agents? Yet she knowingly housed such info on her private server, despite how relentlessly NSA servers are subjected to hack attempts, and wouldn't you know it even random yahoo hackers in Romania were able to break into her server and access that information.

 

This is a woman that is running for President of the United States. She is about to see classified documents and information daily, moreso than she did when she was Secretary of State, and you don't see how she's proven herself unqualified to handle such information? Even if you have absolute trust with Hillary and would entrust your life in her hands - aka even if you're a god damned idiot - she has proven herself incapable of handling sensitive information appropriately...and you wanna elect her president of the United States. Yeah man seems legit.

[Meshugger]

 

 

...is nothing compared to the reality of actually living in Russia compared to the USA. So I say  never  let him be able to return home...having to live in countries like Russia is fitting punishment

 

Tell us more, what is it like living in Russia?

 

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/01/25/worrying-data-raise-russia-recession-odds-economist.html

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2016/01/11/russias-recession-may-stick-around-longer-as-ruble-weakens/#219d8ca0241b

 

http://www.dw.com/en/russias-recession-woes-deepen-amid-oil-slump/a-18990311

 

 

I asked about living there. As in social networks, culture, possibility to self-fulfillment, security, access to healthcare, raising a family and such.

 

But instead you're saying that poverty is the best punishment? Ok. I would say that's quite the most frivolous answer one can make.

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

...is nothing compared to the reality of actually living in Russia compared to the USA. So I say  never  let him be able to return home...having to live in countries like Russia is fitting punishment

 

Tell us more, what is it like living in Russia?

 

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/01/25/worrying-data-raise-russia-recession-odds-economist.html

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2016/01/11/russias-recession-may-stick-around-longer-as-ruble-weakens/#219d8ca0241b

 

http://www.dw.com/en/russias-recession-woes-deepen-amid-oil-slump/a-18990311

 

 

I asked about living there. As in social networks, culture, possibility to self-fulfillment, security, access to healthcare, raising a family and such.

 

But instead you're saying that poverty is the best punishment? Ok. I would say that's quite the most frivolous answer one can make.

 

No I'm saying nothing of the sort, the economic reality of Russia is a fault of Putin's failure to diversify the economy 

 

This is his fault for not understanding or just not caring about how to sustain an economy outside of commodity exports like oil

 

The economic recession Russia is in effects negatively all aspects of Russian society, so yes once again to make my point " Russia at the moment isn't a good place to be living in because of the economic reality  " 

 

This is not hard to understand and  it isnt  the slightest bit frivolous, economic data is never frivolous 

 

And this is who Snowden betrayed the USA to and yes it was a mistake and yes he should now continue to live in Russia 

Edited June 10, 2016 by BruceVC

[Longknife]

Doomed to live in a country where high heel races are a thing? Damn, Snowden's surely regretting everything he ever did.

[Meshugger]

 

 

 

 

...is nothing compared to the reality of actually living in Russia compared to the USA. So I say  never  let him be able to return home...having to live in countries like Russia is fitting punishment

 

Tell us more, what is it like living in Russia?

 

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/01/25/worrying-data-raise-russia-recession-odds-economist.html

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2016/01/11/russias-recession-may-stick-around-longer-as-ruble-weakens/#219d8ca0241b

 

http://www.dw.com/en/russias-recession-woes-deepen-amid-oil-slump/a-18990311

 

 

I asked about living there. As in social networks, culture, possibility to self-fulfillment, security, access to healthcare, raising a family and such.

 

But instead you're saying that poverty is the best punishment? Ok. I would say that's quite the most frivolous answer one can make.

 

No I'm saying nothing of the sort, the economic reality of Russia is a fault of Putin's failure to diversify the economy 

 

This is his fault for not understanding or just not caring about how to sustain an economy outside of commodity exports like oil

 

The economic recession Russia is in effects negatively all aspects of Russian society, so yes once again to make my point " Russia at the moment isn't a good place to be living in because of the economic reality  " 

 

This is not hard to understand and  it isnt  the slightest bit frivolous, economic data is never frivolous 

 

And this is who Snowden betrayed the USA to and yes it was a mistake and yes he should now continue to live in Russia 

 

 

So even if he makes a lot of friends, raises a family that loves him, and enjoys the local cultural festivities with his family and friends it is a fitting punishment because his standard of living will have propability of being lower than in the US? As in driving a Lada Samara instead of a BMW 730 to his dacha in the country?

 

Sure. Not frivolous at all.

Edited June 10, 2016 by Meshugger

[IndiraLightfoot]

About what Snowden and Clinton did:

 

I view Snowden as civil disobedience/whistleblowing of global proportions and repercussions,

and I view Clinton's mail server as severe recklessness with sensitive information.

Edited June 10, 2016 by IndiraLightfoot

[Malcador]

Hm, doesn't whistleblowing entail working internally rather than just leaking everything to the world?

 

Minor quibble I suppose. Though now the guy is treated as some authority on security, heh.

[IndiraLightfoot]

I know, a bit of stretch there.

 

However, here in Sweden, Snowden received a prestigious international award, the Right Livelihood award, not very long ago:

“... for his courage and skill in revealing the unprecedented extent of state surveillance violating basic democratic processes and constitutional rights.”

[Guard Dog]

Gary Johnson would pardon Snowden: http://reason.com/blog/2016/06/03/as-president-gary-johnson-would-consider

[Guard Dog]

Now, onto the obvious question: Does he stand a chance? Or is it rather a snowball's in hell?

 

 

The snowball has better odds. However, in 2000 Harry Browne got 380,000 votes for President give or take. In 2004 Mike Badnarik got around 400,000 (including one from me). In 2008 Bob Barr got over half a million. In 2012 Gary Johnson got 1.2 Million. There are two goals here:

 

1) Do well enough in the early polling to get on the debate stage. 15% is the magic number. Right now he's between 6% & 10%. That at least will get the message out and show voters there is a 3rd option.

 

2) Get more votes than last time. The number of total votes the LP candidates are getting is growing faster than the rate of new voter registration. So that is a positive. in 2000 there were 1100 give or take LP members in elected office around the country. Now it's close to 3500. The Libertarian Party is the only other political entity that exists in and is on the ballot in all 50 states and all 5 territories. A lot of folks have wanted a 3rd choice... this is it.

[IndiraLightfoot]

Let's hope they muster those 15% for him then. It would be healthy for those debates.

[Hurlshort]

Gary Johnson is more than likely my candidate, and I even have my wife looking at him, since she cannot stomach Trump as a Republican. I think after the conventions we need to really push his name out there so people stop the stupid "I hate one candidate but I hate the other more, so I will vote for the lesser of two evils."

 

Sure he may have no real chance, but he can shift the paradigm a bit.

[Guard Dog]

For the last two elections I've voted for the lesser of two evils. I'm done with that for good. The lesser of two evils is still evil. I hear the expression "wasted vote" thrown around. But nothing done on principle could ever be a wasted act.

[BruceVC]

For the last two elections I've voted for the lesser of two evils. I'm done with that for good. The lesser of two evils is still evil. I hear the expression "wasted vote" thrown around. But nothing done on principle could ever be a wasted act.

GD if you dont think Hilary Clinton cares about the well being of USA citizens do you agree Trump also doesn't care?

[Guard Dog]

 

For the last two elections I've voted for the lesser of two evils. I'm done with that for good. The lesser of two evils is still evil. I hear the expression "wasted vote" thrown around. But nothing done on principle could ever be a wasted act.

GD if you dont think Hilary Clinton cares about the well being of USA citizens do you agree Trump also doesn't care?

 

Completely agree. I believe each may have one or two principles they believe in but at the end of the day they are all about themselves.

[ShadySands]

 

For the last two elections I've voted for the lesser of two evils. I'm done with that for good. The lesser of two evils is still evil. I hear the expression "wasted vote" thrown around. But nothing done on principle could ever be a wasted act.

GD if you dont think Hilary Clinton cares about the well being of USA citizens do you agree Trump also doesn't care?

 

Why does that matter? He doesn't support Trump either

[BruceVC]

 

 

For the last two elections I've voted for the lesser of two evils. I'm done with that for good. The lesser of two evils is still evil. I hear the expression "wasted vote" thrown around. But nothing done on principle could ever be a wasted act.

GD if you dont think Hilary Clinton cares about the well being of USA citizens do you agree Trump also doesn't care?

 

Completely agree. I believe each may have one or two principles they believe in but at the end of the day they are all about themselves.

 

But then we faced with a conundrum, a real problem. Lets say you are right and neither candidate cares about the well being of US citizens...what would you tell, for example, the millions of people who believe Trump when he says " I want to make the USA great again " ...how would you even raise the subject that everything they believe about Trump is false....and many of his supporters do believe he cares about the USA and its citizens ?

 

Can we even raise the truth to many supporters on both sides....do they even care or can you really convince people that " Trump\Clinton dont care of you really " ?

[BruceVC]

 

 

For the last two elections I've voted for the lesser of two evils. I'm done with that for good. The lesser of two evils is still evil. I hear the expression "wasted vote" thrown around. But nothing done on principle could ever be a wasted act.

GD if you dont think Hilary Clinton cares about the well being of USA citizens do you agree Trump also doesn't care?

 

Why does that matter? He doesn't support Trump either

 

Patience young grasshopper, I was building to  a certain point ...see the post above 

[Meshugger]

Topical considering what's going on in the background in america

 

 

The joke in the end xD

[ShadySands]

How Clinton Donor Got on Sensitive Intelligence Board