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I don't want that boon!


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52 replies to this topic

#1
magniTT

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In physical game there was an option to refuse to pass a check to acquire a boon. This was useful in more than one way:

 

1) Often you just don't want some cards, neither in your hand (they are useless), nor in you discard (they get shuffled back in the deck when you are healed and you are stuck with them).

2) Sometimes there are penalties for failed checks (is some locations, and with some scenario rules), and if you have no chance to acquire anything you could just skip the check to avoid this penalty.

3) Beginning with adventure 3 if you don't acquire a boon with BASIC trait you could remove it from the game. Sometimes we chose to refuse a check just to remove a card from the game, so that there would be more new powerful cards in the deck, even though this boon could be useful in a particular situation.

4) Sometimes you banish certain cards on purpose - so that you can choose a card you need from the vault between scenarios. But if you later come by a card of that type in a location you are forced to pass a check to acquire it, which sucks.

 

It's too bad we don't have this option now...


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#2
Kgk4569

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Yes, this has been brought up A LOT. It is planned to be included.
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#3
FatePAC

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I would just add that you can auto fail the check but not refuse to take the check.

#4
Hannibal_PJV

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Like fatePAC said, section 2. Is not possible, but everything else... maybe later.

#5
Namyra

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Also as for 3), I think it's been discussed that this will likely work differently in the app somehow, like a percentage of Basic cards getting removed automatically or so.



#6
da_mayor

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Just remember that, by the rules, if you turn down the opportunity to acquire a boon, it still counts as "failure to acquire", so any place that penalizes you for that will do so in this case.


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#7
269Hawkmoon

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So, the big place not being able to not attempt the check to acquire a boon is the Glassworks, which penalizes you for failing a check. But, if you choose not to attempt the check to acquire the boon, you haven't failed the check, you've not attempted it. So the Glassworks shouldn't penalize you. In other words, there is a difference between "fail a check to acquire a boon" and "fail to acquire a boon". You can fail to acquire a boon without failing a check to acquire a boon.

 

For now, the best you can do is pick the worst skill option and hope you don't get it. And be careful about going to the Glassworks.


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#8
da_mayor

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So, the big place not being able to not attempt the check to acquire a boon is the Glassworks, which penalizes you for failing a check. But, if you choose not to attempt the check to acquire the boon, you haven't failed the check, you've not attempted it. So the Glassworks shouldn't penalize you. In other words, there is a difference between "fail a check to acquire a boon" and "fail to acquire a boon". You can fail to acquire a boon without failing a check to acquire a boon.

 

For now, the best you can do is pick the worst skill option and hope you don't get it. And be careful about going to the Glassworks.

 

Hawk, I know YOU know this verbage, but for others reading this thread (and who haven't read the OTHER threads where this has been quoted)...

 

From the card game rulebook:

 

If the card is a boon, you may try to acquire it for your deck; if it’s a bane, you must try to defeat it (see Attempting a Check, below). If you choose not to acquire a boon, it counts as failing to acquire it.

 

So, yeah, that seems to be the case.  That'd make the Glassworks safer, but anything that says, "When you fail to acquire a boon..." will still zap you.



#9
Brainwave

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Also as for 3), I think it's been discussed that this will likely work differently in the app somehow, like a percentage of Basic cards getting removed automatically or so.


This is disappointing. The app seems the perfect way to implement the actual card game rules which were tedious to keep track of in the physical game but when you've got a computer to do it for you, seem like they'd be a lot more doable.
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#10
PinkRose

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I have never found a time I didn't want a boon.

More boons, more life.



#11
da_mayor

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I gotta admit, I hate the spell Mending.  I've had a grudge against it (and, to a barely lesser degree Guidance) since I forgot to edit a couple of characters' decks before starting and game and ended up with these instead of multiple Cures.  If I see these, I go out of my way to lower my odds of acquiring them, just to lessen my irritation.

 

Smart-game-strategy-wise, you're aboslutely right.



#12
Kgk4569

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I have never found a time I didn't want a boon.

More boons, more life.

 

True, but more junk in your deck and hand after you heal.



#13
PinkRose

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Most character has a power that requires discarding or burying.



#14
Kgk4569

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The ones that don't are: Kyra (she does, but very selective), Sajan (also limited recharging), Valeros, and Ezren, while Seelah has one that is a wildcard as it takes the top card of the deck, which could be good.

 

Also, even if you can discard or recharge cards, it is not unlimited, you can still end up with a lot of junk in your hand that limits what you can do.



#15
Borissimo

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While some of the points in the OP have merit, most do not. Let's go through them one by one:

 

1) Often you just don't want some cards, neither in your hand (they are useless), nor in you discard (they get shuffled back in the deck when you are healed and you are stuck with them).

 

This is a legitimate concern. However, it's incredibly minor. How often will this make the difference between failure and success? Almost never.

 

2) Sometimes there are penalties for failed checks (is some locations, and with some scenario rules), and if you have no chance to acquire anything you could just skip the check to avoid this penalty.

 

According to the rulebook of the newest set, Wrath of the Righteous, "If you choose not to acquire a boon, it counts as failing to acquire it." So this point is totally illegitimate. Hawk and da-Mayor believe that the Glassworks is an exception to this, drawing a distinction between "failing to acquire a boon" and "failing a check to acquire a boon," but I completely (but respectfully! :)) disagree. I think that "failing to acquire" is just a shortened form of "failing a check to acquire" because really, when are you ever going to fail to acquire a boon in any other way? It's possible I'm wrong, but only if the designers simply come out and say it; the rules in this intance are far from unequivocal.

 

In any case, however matters are settled in the Glassworks, this point is wrong. :)

 

3) Beginning with adventure 3 if you don't acquire a boon with BASIC trait you could remove it from the game. Sometimes we chose to refuse a check just to remove a card from the game, so that there would be more new powerful cards in the deck, even though this boon could be useful in a particular situation.

 

This is also completely wrong. The digital game handles box culling in a different way than the physical game does. In the digital game, whether a boon gets banished has no bearing on whether it will appear in later scenarios.

 

This is a controversial topic: some players, like me, think Obsidian's method is superior to the physical game's, while others hotly disagree. Either way, though, the ability to pass on boons won't affect what it's in your box in the digital game.

 

4) Sometimes you banish certain cards on purpose - so that you can choose a card you need from the vault between scenarios. But if you later come by a card of that type in a location you are forced to pass a check to acquire it, which sucks.

 

This is the only point in the OP that's both legitimate AND significant. At the end of the day, though, it's not game-breaking, so I don't think that on its own it confers high-priority status to the option to auto-fail boon checks.



#16
delpheki

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Whenever I come to a disagreement on a rule or topic of confusion I try to reason out the scenario in an RP sense.  Lini is adventuring through a dark dungeon.  Lini comes across a room that has a shiny sword on the wall.  Lini realizes she doesn't know how to swing a sword, can hardly hold a sword that size up, and doesn't really have the room for that sword in her bag so she simply avoids even trying to pick it up.


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#17
zeroth_hour

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delpheki: that's actually a dangerous road to tread down, as that type of intuition creates situations where you'll tear your hair out because of abstraction and simplification.

 

It's actually not incredibly minor; Ezren in particular wants his deck to be mostly spells so he can cycle through his deck without having to discard much; he really doesn't want a shortsword or something else he can't use and that will clog his deck if it gets healed in.  The reason I say this with Ezren is because he's probably the character who has the most trouble cycling through his deck out of all of them - he doesn't get blessings, he can't heal, and he mainly relies on recharging situational spells (and is worse than Seoni at doing it)

 

But I like him because he can get really ridiculous sometimes (eg Academy)



#18
269Hawkmoon

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The difference between failing to acquire and failing a check to acquire can be found in this discussion:

 

http://paizo.com/thr...lar-Question#89

 

So, while failing a check to acquire a boon results in failing to acquire a boon, if you simply decide to not attempt to acquire the boon, you haven't failed the check to acquire it.



#19
Hannibal_PJV

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That is discussion before Wrath of the righteousnes rulebook clarification?
Not want to be devils advocad, but that may have changed. But can not be sure ofcourse. Hawkmoon is allmost always right in these matters, but even he can not owerride rule changes... or can he?
;-)
But this would be nice to know as an academic point of view.

#20
zeroth_hour

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Yeah, the WotR rulebook now say (p.10) "If you choose not to acquire a boon, it counts as failing to acquire it." and Vic said he wasn't sure in that post.






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