Defining Social Justice Warrior

[Volourn]

"some weird Canadian right wing group"

 

I missed this but if you think I'm anything resembling the right wing that is hilariously laughable.

[Malcador]

"some weird Canadian right wing group"

 

I missed this but if you think I'm anything resembling the right wing that is hilariously laughable.

I dunno...you sound like the average Tory

[Hurlshort]

 

That's not exactly what I meant.

 

There are two things to look at here. First, hard work and dedication are indeed essential to get anywhere in life... unless you are born into a wealthy family. For the overwhelming majority of mankind, that's not what happens, so you gotta work. However, hard work and dedication are not a guarantee of anything. For some, it's not even a guarantee of a decent living. How many exactly is "some" depends on where you're looking, but globally it's billions. Any factors beyond hard work and dedication are outside of your control. For most people, hard work is a necessary condition, but not sufficient. The rest boils down to luck.

 

Now, while I don't doubt that you know of people who started at the bottom and have triumphed, that's exceedingly rare. Looking at economic mobility research, US-specific, the odds of striking rich aren't good:

 

"The "rags to riches" story is much more common in Hollywood than on Main Street. Only 6 percent of children born to parents with family income at the very bottom move to the very top."

 

http://www.brookings.edu/research/papers/2007/11/generations-isaacs

 

You can't just dismiss 94% of those born into the bottom-earning bracket as just lazy, no matter what the Donald might say. Now, it's patently ridiculous to think that everyone has a right to be rich, or that everyone would even want to be. But outside of selected anecdotal evidence, why do you believe that, even if you had put in at least the same amount of work as the people in your examples, you would have gotten anywhere near where they did?

 

Is it possible to succeed despite the odds? Yes. Does it take hard work and dedication? Sure, among other things. In this sense, one can consider themselves to be "self-made", even if that ignores the millenia of societal progress that have afforded "self-made" men the opportunities to succeed rather than just hunt for food or starve. For each of these "self-made" men, millions have just gotten by, and some not even that, despite putting in the work too. But then, "self-made" is just a self-aggrandizing way of saying "hard working".

 

That's the second thing to look at, as Newton put it: "If I have seen further, it is by standing on the shoulders of giants". Perhaps the most brilliant scientist in history understood that his accomplishments couldn't have occurred in a vacuum, and were built upon the centuries of work of those who came before him. "Self-made" men not wanting to pay taxes because they don't owe anything to the society that has enabled them is not just incredibly arrogant, it's laughable. Or it would be, were it not because it's such a widely accepted idea.

 

edit: can't into English

 

 

That article is great, and I tend to agree with quite a bit that is being said.  On the positive, the idea that 2 out of 3 people have higher incomes than their parents, and 1 out of 3 are upwardly mobile, seems like very good news.  The biggest red flag I see is the uneven growth, where the top is growing significantly faster than the bottom.  It's a bad trend. 

[BruceVC]

"some weird Canadian right wing group"

 

I missed this but if you think I'm anything resembling the right wing that is hilariously laughable.

How would we know.....there is no way I can say with absolute conviction " Volo is NOT right wing " ..I give you benefit of the doubt but its not 100 %  

Edited May 17, 2016 by BruceVC

[Chilloutman]

That article is great, and I tend to agree with quite a bit that is being said.  On the positive, the idea that 2 out of 3 people have higher incomes than their parents, and 1 out of 3 are upwardly mobile, seems like very good news.  The biggest red flag I see is the uneven growth, where the top is growing significantly faster than the bottom.  It's a bad trend.

Well, only solution to it is

 

A) war

B) putting limit on amount of stuff one can inherit, because if you inherit more, you will generally have easier time to multiply your assets. Thats why wealthy people are able to get so big (not all of course)

 

none of these are too appealing to me TBH

[Hurlshort]

I'm not sure those are the only solutions.  I'm pretty sure that raising the minimum wage, while plenty problematic in itself, is a heck of a lot better than either of those options.  

[Chilloutman]

I'm not sure those are the only solutions.  I'm pretty sure that raising the minimum wage, while plenty problematic in itself, is a heck of a lot better than either of those options.  

 

how does raising minimum wage makes rich people not grow wealth faster than those on minimal wage?

[BruceVC]

 

I'm not sure those are the only solutions.  I'm pretty sure that raising the minimum wage, while plenty problematic in itself, is a heck of a lot better than either of those options.  

 

how does raising minimum wage makes rich people not grow wealth faster than those on minimal wage?

 

That should work, obviously the person earning more money theoretically  will get richer quicker 

[Hurlshort]

The idea is to grow wealth across the board.  Or at the very least, keep up with inflation.  

 

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/07/23/5-facts-about-the-minimum-wage/

 

 

The rich getting richer is not a problem unless the everyone else is getting poorer. 

[aluminiumtrioxid]

raising the minimum wage, while plenty problematic in itself

 

...Why exactly?

 

I mean, seriously, who benefits from having a minimum wage so low, most people on it have to apply for various welfare programs to cover basic necessities? Why is it fair that people indirectly have to pay for services and goods they never use nor want through taxes, because the reason said services and goods are available at such low prices is that the employer is paying minimum wage to its workers?

[Gfted1]

It will be interesting to see what, if any, fallout occurs from the recent minimum wage increases.
 

Four consequences of a $15 minimum wage.

[Malcador]

If only everyone else's raise as well, I guess. Would be interesting to see how prices would shift.

 

Something galling about the numbnuts at my local Subway earning 15 an hour though.

Edited May 17, 2016 by Malcador

[Gfted1]

A lot has to do with the cost of living in your area. $15/hour in CA or NY may be reasonable but its not in less expensive locales. Im curious to see if it drives independant vendors out of business.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

A lot has to do with the cost of living in your area. $15/hour in CA or NY may be reasonable but its not in less expensive locales. Im curious to see if it drives independant vendors out of business.

They're already going down in Houston and minimum wage is $7.25. The competition with chain vendors who can provide similar stuff for lower prices is too much for them.

[Chilloutman]

no-one will get rich from working minimum wage, that was my point

[Hurlshort]

no-one will get rich from working minimum wage, that was my point

 

That is a statement of the obvious.  The goal isn't to make everyone rich, it is make sure people who have jobs have a decent quality of life.

[Volourn]

"I dunno...you sound like the average Tory"

 

L0L What is a tory. is that slkang for a story that is shorter than normal? We call that a short story here.

 

 

Bruce, what is your defintiion of a 'right wing' person.  I have my doubts I would fit the description in any meaningful way. I certainly don't fit the stereotype of a right winger in the West. Though I agree with them on some things and I agree with the left on some.

 

IMAGINE THAT. I'm not beholden to either asanine side.

 

 

As for minimum wage.. as people pointed out minimum wage is a joke b/c people on minimum wage 9at least where I live) tend to still have to depend on the gov't. Espically since most people on minium wage are suually part time wortkers on top of that. Why bother having a job if it isn't enough to support you?

 

LMAO

Edited May 17, 2016 by Volourn

[Hurlshort]

 

raising the minimum wage, while plenty problematic in itself

 

...Why exactly?

 

I mean, seriously, who benefits from having a minimum wage so low, most people on it have to apply for various welfare programs to cover basic necessities? Why is it fair that people indirectly have to pay for services and goods they never use nor want through taxes, because the reason said services and goods are available at such low prices is that the employer is paying minimum wage to its workers?

 

 

Gfted already linked a good article on some of the issues, but I'd add that all employers are different.  It is pretty easy for me to tune out the big chains when they complain about minimum wage.  McDonalds is not going to go under because it pays the fry cook a few bucks more.  They should trim the fat at the top, and given they are a consumer driven business, the consumers should be driving for that.  

 

But small businesses don't have the same profit margin.  The difference of a few bucks and hour may drop them into the red.  We need to make sure that doesn't happen.

[Malcador]

Volo you don't know what a Tory is ?

 

Term for the Conservative party here

[Volourn]

 One of many names for him but try tod efine what a tory is. My defintion is as worthwhile as the others.  HINT: I'm no Tory.

 

 

 

 "McDonalds is not going to go under because it pays the fry cook a few bucks more."
 

This myth that McD ()and other fast food places) hire people at minium wage and they stay at that level no matter what is nonsense. I believe all these places have regular pay incrases depending how long you stay with them. In fact,  the employees who get most screwed  by minimum wage are those working for small companies or the  so called ma and pa stores who don't really have any    sort of policy for wages or benefits.

[Hurlshort]

That is a good point, we do tend to focus on starting salaries.  Here is what glass door shows:

 

https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/McDonald-s-Salaries-E432.htm

 

It also should be noted that McDonalds only runs 10% of their restaurants, and the rest are franchises, which can have different policies on salary. 

[Volourn]

Unless there are some sort of special rules I'm miissing or differing on different provinces some of those minimums  seem to be illegal since minimum wage (at least in Ontario) for sure is over $10 but it shows salaries of as low as 7$ which as far as I know is not legally allowed anywhere in Kanada. Just sayin'. someone should check /report that for accuracy.

[Hurlshort]

It relies on people reporting salaries, so it probably just doesn't have enough data to deal with outliers.  It does have the averages over $10 in Canada, so that's something.

[Gromnir]

is becoming clear how little experience most folks here 'bouts regarding small businesses.  single biggest cost o' running such a business is invariably labor.  your margins is already razor thin to begin with, so something as trivial as increase cost o' those freaking ketchup packets is gonna put a noticeable dent in profits. am not kidding.  places such as mcdonalds has extreme high turnover, so fact that there is scheduled pay increases is not particular significant-- many o' your employees is always gonna be new employees. is just not a heck o' a lot o' fat to trim at an individual mcdonalds franchise, or most other smallish businesses that depend on minimum wagers. any business that depends on minimum wage employees is gonna need pass along costs to consumers.  oh, and guess what? the folks most likely to be hurt by the increase costs resulting from a minimum wage increase is the folks who is earning minimum wage.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

[majestic]

Unless there are some sort of special rules I'm miissing or differing on different provinces some of those minimums  seem to be illegal since minimum wage (at least in Ontario) for sure is over $10 but it shows salaries of as low as 7$ which as far as I know is not legally allowed anywhere in Kanada. Just sayin'. someone should check /report that for accuracy.

 

Isn't 10$ in Canada like 7$ in real money? /scnr