The Rogue and Barbarian Polishing Poll

[Elric Galad]

So, Patch 3.02 is here and we should not expect much evolution to current classes.

That is not a bad news, because according to this topic, people are pretty satisfied with current status :
https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/85366-class-balance/
Obsidian did a really nice job.

However, according to the same topic, 2 little complaints are risen :
- Casters (especially wizard and priest) seem to be a bit more powerful than the rest. Let's say that the limited ressource they have and consumables everybody can use tend to reduce the gap.
- Rogue and Barbarian are usually said to be a bit UP. Not that much by the way.

The reason behind these complaints about these 2 classes are usually :
- Barbarians tend to be a bit one trick poney
- Rogues have a short head for single target DPS, but no big gap that will justify their lack of other abilities.
- Their high level abilities are not so great. They didn't get uber skill from WM I like Twin Arrows, Immolation, etc...
 

Also, Obsidian did admit some abilities still need rework, such as Riposte on the link below (thanks Infinitron):

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/85045-riposte-rogue-viable-potd/page-2

I'm going to propose here some changes. I've tried to make them reflect not only my own opinion, but also other people views. (but yeah, that's subjective).
These modifications take into account that Obsidian is currently very unlikey to make big changes to the classes. So I'm not invoking major rework. (at least I don’t think they are “major”.)

I also tried to avoid changes on abilities which “could work”, even if not perfect.

 

 

When answering the poll, keep in mind that it’s unlikely that Obsidian would rework all the named abilities. So don’t hesitate to make some priorities ! For example, I've limited my own anwsers to 5 wishes per class. OK, 5 per class might be too much, but that's my ideas so it's quite hard to disagree with them 

 

In this thread, you can find a short description of the proposed changes, but you can find deeper explanations about these changes in: https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/85541-the-rogue-and-barbarian-polishing-thread/

(and you can also find reasons why I didn’t touch to other abilities).

This thread was positive for me because I got mostly positive review .

 

Don't hesitate if you have any questions or remarks.

Thank you for answers and review !

Edited March 28, 2016 by Elric Galad

[Blades of Vanatar]

Both list title as Rogue, you might want to change the 2nd list to Barby.

[JerekKruger]

I'm in favour of all but one of the changes, namely the rogue's smoke cloud. To my mind that change doesn't really fit, though I agree smoke cloud needs to be buffed somehow.

[MaxQuest]

Voted all options, except "rogue immolation" (i would also prefer a different approach) and "shadow step" (since it is unclear to me how needed/balanced it is).

 

Other suggestions look nice and welcome, especially riposte, barbarian shouts and one stands alone, pushing them to viable status.

[Elric Galad]

Voted all options, except "rogue immolation" (i would also prefer a different approach) and "shadow step" (since it is unclear to me how needed/balanced it is).

 

 

I didn't even vote for it myself, for about the same reasons 

[Kinowek]

Most of those proposed changes would be welcome, although I would not want to face any NPC rogues with a 100% Graze to Miss chance, or Barbarians whose leaps cast AoE prone.

 

A little too strong those two, in my opinion. The rest would be great, except for:

 

Smoke cloud... I've used it a couple times then respecced away from it. It is just inferior to other abilities, but I don't think an AoE Debuff cloud really fits with a Pillars rogue either, so I didn't vote yes to that either.

[Elric Galad]

Most of those proposed changes would be welcome, although I would not want to face any NPC rogues with a 100% Graze to Miss chance, or Barbarians whose leaps cast AoE prone.

 

A little too strong those two, in my opinion. The rest would be great, except for:

 

Smoke cloud... I've used it a couple times then respecced away from it. It is just inferior to other abilities, but I don't think an AoE Debuff cloud really fits with a Pillars rogue either, so I didn't vote yes to that either.

 

Graze to miss are only about Reflex defense

[JerekKruger]

... Barbarians whose leaps cast AoE prone.

 

Really? A level 1 Cipher gets a large AoE prone, and gets an even larger one at level 11. Seems perfectly reasonable.

[Elric Galad]

Anyway, just a few buffs to some of these abilities would make these classes ok.

 

Basically, Riposte and the strikes for the Rogue (Feign Death would be nice too) and barbaric shouts and ultimate abilities would be ok, maybe thick-skinned too...

 

These changes are rather easy to implement, I guess.

 

One Stands Alone seems to be praised too but I suppose it would require a bit deeper rework. There is currently an item that boost you when you don't have allies around. This one could be a basis for a rework and would fit the theme too.

 

Currently, I have trouble to pick 8 abilities that I'm happy to choose...

Edited March 29, 2016 by Elric Galad

[MaxQuest]

It's interesting to see how Riposte got 10 votes out of 10 atm.

 

Also the discrepancy between Barbaric Yell (8/10) and Barbaric Shout (5/10).

Edited March 30, 2016 by MaxQuest

[FlintlockJazz]

I totally got the wrong idea when I saw the thread title.  Expected to find pictures of people polishing Barbarians and Rogues.   I have to admit, I'm a bit... disappointed this wasn't the case.

[theBalthazar]

Good thread. Barbarian need all theses modifications !^^

 

Particulary : echoing shout, one stand alone, dragon leap, heart of the fury.

 

I know rogue a little bit less. So, I don't vote (never play rogue).

 

Its interesting to know why ? Rogue, its too difficult to play for attack only one person. I don't like this class for this reason.

[Elric Galad]

Good thread. Barbarian need all theses modifications !^^

 

Particulary : echoing shout, one stand alone, dragon leap, heart of the fury.

 

 

Do you realize that the 4 changes you name are almost a carbon copy of your proposal on another thread ?

 

I've only changed the AoE of One Stand Alone and Dragon Leap Prone duration you proposed.

 

You Pseudonym is quoted on the original thread on Character build Subforum, sorry not to have done the same here.

Edited March 30, 2016 by Elric Galad

[theBalthazar]

Yeah, I realize. You do a good job for group all the ideas.

[hilfazer]

I couldn't vote for One Stand Alone change because it would boost Carnage and barbarian needs to be cured from his one trick ponyness.

 

In the original thread i explained why current OSA + Heart of the Storm is not a problem.

[Blunderboss]

Riposte - Needs To Be 25% of All attacks Misses ,Grazes,Hits maybe not crits

Shadowing Beyond - 1 or 2 Per Encounter

Escape - use Cape of the Cheat all day , it has to be atleast 2 per encounter to make it worth it or im just using the cape lol

Withering/Fearsome change i agree would be very nice ,

Feign Death / Shadow Step these abilities needs tuning , Feign Death u should be able to wake up whenever u want to , Shadow Step needs to work with Backstab

other new abilities i havent used much/enough to say anything

 

Edit : Oh and we forgeting poor old Blinding Strike is it still 1 per encounter compared to Hobbling Strike 2 per encounter , i never chose blinding strike in 3 rogue playtroughs .

Edited March 31, 2016 by Blunderboss

[theBalthazar]

I couldn't vote for One Stand Alone change because it would boost Carnage and barbarian needs to be cured from his one trick ponyness.

 

In the original thread i explained why current OSA + Heart of the Storm is not a problem.

 

 

At the origins, a talent increase your potential... So increase carnage its normal. Here its not the case. Actually OSA is practically never activate. So you see +20 % damage but in reality it doesn't work.

 

The developpers surely thought about it as something to boost activate on big battles. Or, if you prone one guy of the group, the barbarian doesn't activate the power. The red arrow also be inactive in certain circumstances, yet it is surrounded, and the threat is present.

Edited March 31, 2016 by theBalthazar

[hilfazer]

 

I couldn't vote for One Stand Alone change because it would boost Carnage and barbarian needs to be cured from his one trick ponyness.

 

In the original thread i explained why current OSA + Heart of the Storm is not a problem.

 

 

At the origins, a talent increase your potential... So increase carnage its normal.

 

 

But potential increase from OSA always happens when you can also put carnage to good use. Both talents are about fighting multiple opponents.

 

Barbarians need more potential in scenarios when Carnage is not useful.

They also need a buff to talents that do not depend on INT.

[Elric Galad]

It's interesting to see how Riposte got 10 votes out of 10 atm.

 

 

Finally someone didn't vote for Riposte

[hilfazer]

 

It's interesting to see how Riposte got 10 votes out of 10 atm.

 

Finally someone didn't vote for Riposte

 

 

Someone thinks Riposte needs a bigger buff than this (: