[3.02] Paladin - Faith and Conviction (Goldpack Knights) Still Broken?

[Oxyopia]

Hi, all!

 

I noticed that the latest 3.02 patch didn't seem to correct my main character paladin's Faith and Conviction to correctly calculate the bonuses. From my understanding, Faith and Conviction is supposed to work as follows:

 

Deflection: +4 (Base) / +1 per favored rank of disposition

Fort/Ref/Wil: +8 (Base) / +2 per favored rank of disposition

 

My character is a paladin of the Goldpack Knights and I do not believe that the Stoic disposition is calculating correctly for him. I went back to and old save to verify this and have attached a screenshot illustrating the issue. 

 

In the screenshot, my character has Stoic disposition set to 1 with no disfavored reputations ranked. The total bonus for Faith and Conviction for him comes out to +4 Deflection and +9 Fort/Ref/Wil.

 

Also, in a later save, I noticed that my Rational disposition does seem to be somewhat calculating correctly. In the other screenshot posted below, we can see that my character now has rank 1 in both Stoic and Rational with no ranks in any disfavored dispositions. His total bonus for Faith and Conviction now comes out to +5 Deflection and +11 Fort/Ref/Wil.

 

Is this an issue with the game not calculating correctly? Or is it an issue with using a save from 3.01? 

 

Thanks!

Edited March 24, 2016 by Oxyopia

[Sappy69]

Same issue here.  With a Kind Wayfarers paladin main character, his favored dispositions (Benevolent, Passionate) are both maxed out at 4, while disfavored dispositions (Cruel, Deceptive) have no ranks.

 

The Faith and Conviction bonuses (not including Deep Faith) are as follows: +8 Deflection, +17 fort/ref/will.

 

Clearly still bugged as of 3.02.

[Oxyopia]

Same issue here.  With a Kind Wayfarers paladin main character, his favored dispositions (Benevolent, Passionate) are both maxed out at 4, while disfavored dispositions (Cruel, Deceptive) have no ranks.

 

The Faith and Conviction bonuses (not including Deep Faith) are as follows: +8 Deflection, +17 fort/ref/will.

 

Clearly still bugged as of 3.02.

 

Interesting. So it sounds like the issue is not related to any specific paladin order or disposition. Instead, it appears to be generally related to how the values are calculated for Faith and Conviction.

 

Thanks for providing another data point! I'm sort of relieved that the issue isn't specifically tied to my build!

Edited March 25, 2016 by Oxyopia

[Oxyopia]

Hi again!

 

I haven't heard back from Obsidian about this issue yet, so I figured that another data point couldn't hurt.

 

My main character now has rank 2 in both Stoic and Rational with no ranks in any disfavored dispositions. His current bonus from Faith and Conviction is +7 Deflection and +14 Fort/Ref/Wil. If my understanding of how this ability should work is correct, I would have expected the bonus to be +8 Deflection and +16 Fort/Ref/Wil. 

 

I've attached a screenshot of my character's reputation and resulting Faith and Conviction bonus for reference.

 

Thanks!

[Kaylon]

Now the levels are correctly affected by disposition however you don't get +1def/+2for/ref/will per level like advertised in the patch notes. It seems you get instead only 0.8def/+1.6for/ref/will per level (the final bonus being rounded down).

The progression is like that:

Lv0 - 4/8

Lv1 - 4/9 (from 4.8/9.6)

Lv2 - 5/11 (from 5.6/11.2)

Lv3 - 6/12 (from 6.4/12.8 )

Lv4 - 7/14 (from 7.2/14.4)

Lv5 - 8/16 (from 8/16)

Lv6 - 8/17 (from 8.8/17.6)

Edited March 28, 2016 by Kaylon

[limaxophobiacq]

Is there any other place in the game where fractional defence values or accuracy is even a thing? It just seems ugly and arbitrary, much like when items 'of defense' and 'of protection' where changed to +9 instead of +10 for no good reason.

Edited March 28, 2016 by limaxophobiacq

[JerekKruger]

Is there any other place in the game where fractional defence values or accuracy is even a thing? It just seems ugly and arbitrary, much like when items 'of defense' and 'of protection' where changed to +9 instead of +10 for no good reason.

 

I believe the game deals with fractions all the time. If you read combat logs for damage in detail you'll see fractional damage results. I don't know how this is applied to a character's endurance, whether they are rounded or the fractions are tracked under the hood, but they're there.

[Oxyopia]

So now I guess the question is: what is the expected functionality of Faith and Conviction?

 

By default, the base value is meant to be +4 Def and +8 For/Ref/Will, however it seems that the per rank disposition bonus is where things get murky. Most of us believe that the per rank disposition bonus should be +1 Def and +2 For/Ref/Will, but (as Kaylon points out) the current reality of the 3.02 patch puts the bonus at +0.8 Def and +1.6 For/Ref/Will.

 

So, is Faith and Conviction working as expected in 3.02 or is it still bugged? 

 

Thanks!

 

 

[limaxophobiacq]

I know it does fractional damage and health, I was talking about defense and accuracy values specifically since they as far as I understand are only ever treated as whole numbers in the system, with these fractional values from faith and conviction being rounded of. Which is different from health and endurance where the fractions are actually used.

Edited March 28, 2016 by limaxophobiacq

[Aarik D]

Hey everyone,

 

This is working as intended. Faith and Conviction got a slight nerf and the bonuses we're lowered as Kaylon has pointed out.

 

Sorry for the confusion!

[hilfazer]

Hey everyone,

 

This is working as intended. Faith and Conviction got a slight nerf and the bonuses we're lowered as Kaylon has pointed out.

 

Sorry for the confusion!

 

What about those fractional bonuses from dispositions? They were confirmed to be a bug (by yourself) here:

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/83952-v300929-px1-steam-faith-and-conviction-nerfed-of-bugged/?do=findComment&comment=1771492

but apparently they are still present in 3.02.

 

 

Also, i see no mention of Deep Faith changes but it now gives +3 to 'other defenses' instead of +5.

A bug, i assume?

[Tennisgolfboll]

Hey everyone,

 

This is working as intended. Faith and Conviction got a slight nerf and the bonuses we're lowered as Kaylon has pointed out.

 

Sorry for the confusion!

Thank you for the clarification, ive been waiting on it before i start another game.

 

It isnt a slight nerf however when you put it all together. Rather a huge nerf. From +27 for 3 defenses to +17. That is -30 in defenses not even counting the minus to deflection.

 

With the buffs to fighters as well (awesome talents in the last expansion, really gj) i know what class i will always pick over the other now.

Edited March 30, 2016 by Tennisgolfboll

[Tennisgolfboll]

 

 

Hey everyone,

 

This is working as intended. Faith and Conviction got a slight nerf and the bonuses we're lowered as Kaylon has pointed out.

 

Sorry for the confusion!

What about those fractional bonuses from dispositions? They were confirmed to be a bug (by yourself) here:

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/83952-v300929-px1-steam-faith-and-conviction-nerfed-of-bugged/?do=findComment&comment=1771492

but apparently they are still present in 3.02.

 

 

Also, i see no mention of Deep Faith changes but it now gives +3 to 'other defenses' instead of +5.

A bug, i assume?

No the final score is now 8/17 down from 13/27

 

So -5 in deflection, -10 in all others.

 

 

Just to be clear im not saying paladins are bad or anything its just that imo i liked them for their good defense more than their support so i will use fighters instead now.

 

Im not even saying it was bad to nerf the paladin.

Edited March 30, 2016 by Tennisgolfboll

[Kaylon]

Previously you had +13def/+27for/ref/will with Deep Faith. Now you have +10def/+20for/ref/will with Deep Faith. With maxed F&C+DF the paladin will have the same deflection as a fighter and +20 to the other defenses. 

[hilfazer]

Previously you had +13def/+27for/ref/will with Deep Faith. Now you have +10def/+20for/ref/will with Deep Faith. With maxed F&C+DF the paladin will have the same deflection as a fighter and +20 to the other defenses. 

 

But that is an exceptional case when pally is an PC.

 

Typical pally will have 4/8 + 2/3 + 3/6 = +9/17. Am i right?

 

BTW: A fighter with Vigorous Defense will have more in 'other defenses' than pally and WAY more deflection. 

[Kaylon]

 

Previously you had +13def/+27for/ref/will with Deep Faith. Now you have +10def/+20for/ref/will with Deep Faith. With maxed F&C+DF the paladin will have the same deflection as a fighter and +20 to the other defenses. 

 

But that is an exceptional case when pally is an PC.

 

Typical pally will have 4/8 + 2/3 + 3/6 = +9/17. Am i right?

 

BTW: A fighter with Vigorous Defense will have more in 'other defenses' than pally and WAY more deflection. 

 

 

You're right, the npc paladin will have 9/17 with deep faith. The fighter starts just with higher deflection. In the end the npc paladin will finish with -1def/+17for/ref/will compared to a fighter with the same stats.

Edited March 31, 2016 by Kaylon