The REAL state of the USA : Fact vs Fiction

[Guard Dog]

Well the CIA does have an important role to play when it comes to gathering information. I can see scaling back operations but the should not have cut intel gathering the way the last three administrations have.

[Valsuelm]

You're under the mistaken impression the CIA are the good guys and they are working in your best interests.

They're as powerful as they as ever were, and they do their job quite well. It's just that their real job isn't what it's advertised to be.

[BruceVC]

Well the CIA does have an important role to play when it comes to gathering information. I can see scaling back operations but the should not have cut intel gathering the way the last three administrations have.

 

 

You're under the mistaken impression the CIA are the good guys and they are working in your best interests.

 

They're as powerful as they as ever were, and they do their job quite well. It's just that their real job isn't what it's advertised to be.

You guys wont believe this but about 15 years ago I also could have worked in the USA but it was a military contract...I always wanted to join the CIA. I had this view of how it was the  perfect place for me. I could work independently and bend laws and break them in the name of security of the USA.....I know this is fine as long as its for the safety of your citizens 

 

People dont need to know everything...but I didnt apply but I have always admired the CIA, its amazing how they get criticized by so many Americans. No offense to anyone but I would never do that...I see it as unpatriotic

[majestic]

Big Brother would be proud of you Bruce. You're the king of sheep.

[Longknife]

 

I myself lost numerous friends who sniffed out that I wasn't a Christian until I finally figured out to keep my mouth shut about that, and the school system regularly tried to shoehorn religion into the criteria. One example is that while analyzing greek and roman mythology, they argued that's practically religion and thus this would be a great time for us to likewise study bible passages as part of the curriculum. 

 

To be fair, studying the Bible probably should be part of any literature class. There's a massive body of texts that engage with it one way or the other, where lots of nuance is lost if you don't have the same background information the writer assumes is default.

 

 

 

Depends entirely on the context of the lesson. In my case I promise you that wasn't in the interest of traditional education, but an attempt to scum over the rules and attempt some religious indoctrination.

 

If you think Theology should be an optional class students can elect to take and that all students reserve the right to not attend, with the classes themselves giving multiple religions an equal amount of coverage, sure. If you think Bible passages should be taught as English class curriculum, even if the curriculum itself is solid and fair, I promise you more religious communities will take that as an opportunity to teach Christianity in class.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

If you think Bible passages should be taught as English class curriculum, even if the curriculum itself is solid and fair, I promise you more religious communities will take that as an opportunity to teach Christianity in class.

I genuinely have no idea how important it is to have at least a cursory understanding of the Bible for most works studied in an English class, so I really can't comment on that, but I do think having some basic knowledge of Christianity is just as important as having some basic knowledge of Greek and Roman mythology for someone who wants to study European literature. These subjects have been the core pillars of culture and education for centuries here.

[BruceVC]

 

If you think Bible passages should be taught as English class curriculum, even if the curriculum itself is solid and fair, I promise you more religious communities will take that as an opportunity to teach Christianity in class.

I genuinely have no idea how important it is to have at least a cursory understanding of the Bible for most works studied in an English class, so I really can't comment on that, but I do think having some basic knowledge of Christianity is just as important as having some basic knowledge of Greek and Roman mythology for someone who wants to study European literature. These subjects have been the core pillars of culture and education for centuries here.

 

But why would that matter, I had never read the Bible before and I got my degree

 

Its probably because in Hungary the Bible is considered very important to people ?

[Mr. Magniloquent]

You're under the mistaken impression the CIA are the good guys and they are working in your best interests.

They're as powerful as they as ever were, and they do their job quite well. It's just that their real job isn't what it's advertised to be.

You guys wont believe this but about 15 years ago I also could have worked in the USA but it was a military contract...I always wanted to join the CIA. I had this view of how it was the  perfect place for me. I could work independently and bend laws and break them in the name of security of the USA.....I know this is fine as long as its for the safety of your citizens 

 

People dont need to know everything...but I didnt apply but I have always admired the CIA, its amazing how they get criticized by so many Americans. No offense to anyone but I would never do that...I see it as unpatriotic

 

Stunning. I now understand your total blind Statism. Your curious mixture of white-guilt with your total subservience to anything called "Government" is just a flaccid manifestation of your latent sociopathy. So much has become clear to me now.

 

To respond to your original post though: I would hang Obama from the same reasons that I would hang Bush (any of them). They destroy lives, liberty, and prosperity with their every edict and action. They are not merely traitors to The US Constitution or nation. They are traitors to humanity, coasting upon a sea of blood and ruin to prove it.

[BruceVC]

 

You're under the mistaken impression the CIA are the good guys and they are working in your best interests.

They're as powerful as they as ever were, and they do their job quite well. It's just that their real job isn't what it's advertised to be.

You guys wont believe this but about 15 years ago I also could have worked in the USA but it was a military contract...I always wanted to join the CIA. I had this view of how it was the  perfect place for me. I could work independently and bend laws and break them in the name of security of the USA.....I know this is fine as long as its for the safety of your citizens 

 

People dont need to know everything...but I didnt apply but I have always admired the CIA, its amazing how they get criticized by so many Americans. No offense to anyone but I would never do that...I see it as unpatriotic

 

Stunning. I now understand your total blind Statism. Your curious mixture of white-guilt with your total subservience to anything called "Government" is just a flaccid manifestation of your latent sociopathy. So much has become clear to me now.

 

To respond to your original post though: I would hang Obama from the same reasons that I would hang Bush (any of them). They destroy lives, liberty, and prosperity with their every edict and action. They are not merely traitors to The US Constitution or nation. They are traitors to humanity, coasting upon a sea of blood and ruin to prove it.

/

I'm impressed with your assessment...but I'm not sure how accurate it is? You cant psychoanalyze someone and just guess surly

 

So lets see, its not white guilt I have. I feel committed to the economic transformation in South Africa but its not a guilt trip...I feel liberated and I'm happy to be part of the solution

 

Yes of course we need a strong state that guides policy....but it wont be a dictatorship however I would allow things like freedom of speech but not offensive and hurtful words

 

 Sociopath? Dude I'm normal ...no violent and weird acts from me

 

You cannot hang the President ...thats treason, why would he deserve that? 

[Meshugger]

 

If you think Bible passages should be taught as English class curriculum, even if the curriculum itself is solid and fair, I promise you more religious communities will take that as an opportunity to teach Christianity in class.

I genuinely have no idea how important it is to have at least a cursory understanding of the Bible for most works studied in an English class, so I really can't comment on that, but I do think having some basic knowledge of Christianity is just as important as having some basic knowledge of Greek and Roman mythology for someone who wants to study European literature. These subjects have been the core pillars of culture and education for centuries here.

 

 

By Aphrodite's knickers, i agree with you on something.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

 

If you think Bible passages should be taught as English class curriculum, even if the curriculum itself is solid and fair, I promise you more religious communities will take that as an opportunity to teach Christianity in class.

I genuinely have no idea how important it is to have at least a cursory understanding of the Bible for most works studied in an English class, so I really can't comment on that, but I do think having some basic knowledge of Christianity is just as important as having some basic knowledge of Greek and Roman mythology for someone who wants to study European literature. These subjects have been the core pillars of culture and education for centuries here.

 

But why would that matter, I had never read the Bible before and I got my degree

 

Its probably because in Hungary the Bible is considered very important to people ?

 

 

 

No, it's because it was very "important" to some of our greatest writers and poets, and to miss allusions to it out of ignorance diminishes one's capacity to engage with the text. But I don't think this is a uniquely Hungarian phenomenon.

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

If you think Bible passages should be taught as English class curriculum, even if the curriculum itself is solid and fair, I promise you more religious communities will take that as an opportunity to teach Christianity in class.

I genuinely have no idea how important it is to have at least a cursory understanding of the Bible for most works studied in an English class, so I really can't comment on that, but I do think having some basic knowledge of Christianity is just as important as having some basic knowledge of Greek and Roman mythology for someone who wants to study European literature. These subjects have been the core pillars of culture and education for centuries here.

 

But why would that matter, I had never read the Bible before and I got my degree

 

Its probably because in Hungary the Bible is considered very important to people ?

 

 

 

No, it's because it was very "important" to some of our greatest writers and poets, and to miss allusions to it out of ignorance diminishes one's capacity to engage with the text. But I don't think this is a uniquely Hungarian phenomenon.

 

Fair enough, I am only familiar with modern writers and I didnt realize the Bible had such significance for older writers 

[aluminiumtrioxid]

Fair enough, I am only familiar with modern writers and I didnt realize the Bible had such significance for older writers 

 

 

...Your education never covered, say, Dante or Petrarca?

[BruceVC]

 

Fair enough, I am only familiar with modern writers and I didnt realize the Bible had such significance for older writers 

 

 

...Your education never covered, say, Dante or Petrarca?

 

Dante yes ...but I haven't read Dante for about 12 years 

[Malcador]

Is that common? Mine never did, did Shakespeare, Fitzgerald, Conrad, Steinbeck, etc. but never brought up Dante.

 

Of course the Bible was already covered due to Catholic school.

[Meshugger]

 

 

 

If you think Bible passages should be taught as English class curriculum, even if the curriculum itself is solid and fair, I promise you more religious communities will take that as an opportunity to teach Christianity in class.

I genuinely have no idea how important it is to have at least a cursory understanding of the Bible for most works studied in an English class, so I really can't comment on that, but I do think having some basic knowledge of Christianity is just as important as having some basic knowledge of Greek and Roman mythology for someone who wants to study European literature. These subjects have been the core pillars of culture and education for centuries here.

 

But why would that matter, I had never read the Bible before and I got my degree

 

Its probably because in Hungary the Bible is considered very important to people ?

 

 

 

No, it's because it was very "important" to some of our greatest writers and poets, and to miss allusions to it out of ignorance diminishes one's capacity to engage with the text. But I don't think this is a uniquely Hungarian phenomenon.

 

 

Just to inteject, one of the best movie directors as well: Tarkovsky.

[Meshugger]

 

Well the CIA does have an important role to play when it comes to gathering information. I can see scaling back operations but the should not have cut intel gathering the way the last three administrations have.

 

 

You're under the mistaken impression the CIA are the good guys and they are working in your best interests.

 

They're as powerful as they as ever were, and they do their job quite well. It's just that their real job isn't what it's advertised to be.

You guys wont believe this but about 15 years ago I also could have worked in the USA but it was a military contract...I always wanted to join the CIA. I had this view of how it was the  perfect place for me. I could work independently and bend laws and break them in the name of security of the USA.....I know this is fine as long as its for the safety of your citizens 

 

People dont need to know everything...but I didnt apply but I have always admired the CIA, its amazing how they get criticized by so many Americans. No offense to anyone but I would never do that...I see it as unpatriotic

 

 

Jesus Christ.

 

Most operatives and agents within CIA bend the rules and work they way they do because they have to in order to reach their objectives, not something they take pride in (based on interviews and books by prior agents. Cognitive dissonance and all that taken into account).

 

The fact that you would take some sort of enjoyment out of the methods shows a very sycophant behaviour, usually found in sociopaths. You wouldn't even pass the first vetting as such traits are treated as liabilities, not as assets. Rather i think you would be first in row as a test subject for the following projects:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_ARTICHOKE 

[Malcador]

Armchairs abound here.

[Valsuelm]

Is that common? Mine never did, did Shakespeare, Fitzgerald, Conrad, Steinbeck, etc. but never brought up Dante.

 

Of course the Bible was already covered due to Catholic school.

 

It's increasingly common to not bring up all sorts of people that matter. ie: It's safe to safe that some or even all of the names you mention will remain largely unknown to a great many students out there as the curriculum they are taught does not include them. The average modern public school system, and university system fails it's students in quite large ways. This is sadly, and somewhat scarily, increasingly true, as many on the front lines (parents, teachers/professors, and even occasionally students themselves) will attest to.

 

Insofar as Dante's importance to western literature, of those you've mentioned a great many would say he's only second to Shakespeare (if even second at all) in regards to influence he's had on it.

 

Dante, Chaucer, Shakespeare, and Goethe are names one should know. They arguably more than anyone else have influenced western literature in the last ~1000 years or so, and consequently the culture at large.

 

Going back further: Homer, Sophocles, Euripides, and Virgil are names in literature one should know. The bolded of arguable extra-special import.

 

Then you have philosophers people should be familiar with if not at least aware of, but sadly a great many aren't: Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Descartes, Confucius, Aquinas, and Locke are all names one should know well.

 

There are certainly other names that could be mentioned, and there's also of course works that people should be familiar with that have no known author, ie: Beowulf.

 

I highly recommend reading all of the above. Not at least being familiar with all of the above indicates a sizable hole in one's knowledge of western civilization, and the world at large. Fill it if you have to.

Edited May 17, 2016 by Valsuelm

[BruceVC]

 

 

Well the CIA does have an important role to play when it comes to gathering information. I can see scaling back operations but the should not have cut intel gathering the way the last three administrations have.

 

 

You're under the mistaken impression the CIA are the good guys and they are working in your best interests.

 

They're as powerful as they as ever were, and they do their job quite well. It's just that their real job isn't what it's advertised to be.

You guys wont believe this but about 15 years ago I also could have worked in the USA but it was a military contract...I always wanted to join the CIA. I had this view of how it was the  perfect place for me. I could work independently and bend laws and break them in the name of security of the USA.....I know this is fine as long as its for the safety of your citizens 

 

People dont need to know everything...but I didnt apply but I have always admired the CIA, its amazing how they get criticized by so many Americans. No offense to anyone but I would never do that...I see it as unpatriotic

 

 

Jesus Christ.

 

Most operatives and agents within CIA bend the rules and work they way they do because they have to in order to reach their objectives, not something they take pride in (based on interviews and books by prior agents. Cognitive dissonance and all that taken into account).

 

The fact that you would take some sort of enjoyment out of the methods shows a very sycophant behaviour, usually found in sociopaths. You wouldn't even pass the first vetting as such traits are treated as liabilities, not as assets. Rather i think you would be first in row as a test subject for the following projects:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_ARTICHOKE 

 

Well as you know I'm 41 and I did do 1 year military service in SA

 

How do you know I wasn't already interrogating people in SA and breaking the rules  .....

[Oerwinde]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well the CIA does have an important role to play when it comes to gathering information. I can see scaling back operations but the should not have cut intel gathering the way the last three administrations have.

You're under the mistaken impression the CIA are the good guys and they are working in your best interests.

 

They're as powerful as they as ever were, and they do their job quite well. It's just that their real job isn't what it's advertised to be.

You guys wont believe this but about 15 years ago I also could have worked in the USA but it was a military contract...I always wanted to join the CIA. I had this view of how it was the perfect place for me. I could work independently and bend laws and break them in the name of security of the USA.....I know this is fine as long as its for the safety of your citizens

 

People dont need to know everything...but I didnt apply but I have always admired the CIA, its amazing how they get criticized by so many Americans. No offense to anyone but I would never do that...I see it as unpatriotic

Jesus Christ.

 

Most operatives and agents within CIA bend the rules and work they way they do because they have to in order to reach their objectives, not something they take pride in (based on interviews and books by prior agents. Cognitive dissonance and all that taken into account).

 

The fact that you would take some sort of enjoyment out of the methods shows a very sycophant behaviour, usually found in sociopaths. You wouldn't even pass the first vetting as such traits are treated as liabilities, not as assets. Rather i think you would be first in row as a test subject for the following projects:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_ARTICHOKE

Well as you know I'm 41 and I did do 1 year military service in SA

 

How do you know I wasn't already interrogating people in SA and breaking the rules .....

41? I figured early 20s.

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

 

Well the CIA does have an important role to play when it comes to gathering information. I can see scaling back operations but the should not have cut intel gathering the way the last three administrations have.

You're under the mistaken impression the CIA are the good guys and they are working in your best interests.

 

They're as powerful as they as ever were, and they do their job quite well. It's just that their real job isn't what it's advertised to be.

You guys wont believe this but about 15 years ago I also could have worked in the USA but it was a military contract...I always wanted to join the CIA. I had this view of how it was the perfect place for me. I could work independently and bend laws and break them in the name of security of the USA.....I know this is fine as long as its for the safety of your citizens

 

People dont need to know everything...but I didnt apply but I have always admired the CIA, its amazing how they get criticized by so many Americans. No offense to anyone but I would never do that...I see it as unpatriotic

Jesus Christ.

 

Most operatives and agents within CIA bend the rules and work they way they do because they have to in order to reach their objectives, not something they take pride in (based on interviews and books by prior agents. Cognitive dissonance and all that taken into account).

 

The fact that you would take some sort of enjoyment out of the methods shows a very sycophant behaviour, usually found in sociopaths. You wouldn't even pass the first vetting as such traits are treated as liabilities, not as assets. Rather i think you would be first in row as a test subject for the following projects:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_ARTICHOKE

Well as you know I'm 41 and I did do 1 year military service in SA

 

How do you know I wasn't already interrogating people in SA and breaking the rules .....

41? I figured early 20s.

 

Yes people do seem to think I'm younger on these forums.....its a compliment right 

[Malcador]

 

 

Is that common? Mine never did, did Shakespeare, Fitzgerald, Conrad, Steinbeck, etc. but never brought up Dante.

 

Of course the Bible was already covered due to Catholic school.

It's increasingly common to not bring up all sorts of people that matter. ie: It's safe to safe that some or even all of the names you mention will remain largely unknown to a great many students out there as the curriculum they are taught does not include them. The average modern public school system, and university system fails it's students in quite large ways. This is sadly, and somewhat scarily, increasingly true, as many on the front lines (parents, teachers/professors, and even occasionally students themselves) will attest to.

 

Insofar as Dante's importance to western literature, of those you've mentioned a great many would say he's only second to Shakespeare (if even second at all) in regards to influence he's had on it.

 

Dante, Chaucer, Shakespeare, and Goethe are names one should know. They arguably more than anyone else have influenced western literature in the last ~1000 years or so, and consequently the culture at large.

 

Going back further: Homer, Sophocles, Euripides, and Virgil are names in literature one should know. The bolded of arguable extra-special import.

 

Then you have philosophers people should be familiar with if not at least aware of, but sadly a great many aren't: Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Descartes, Confucius, Aquinas, and Locke are all names one should know well.

 

There are certainly other names that could be mentioned, and there's also of course works that people should be familiar with that have no known author, ie: Beowulf.

 

I highly recommend reading all of the above. Not at least being familiar with all of the above indicates a sizable hole in one's knowledge of western civilization, and the world at large. Fill it if you have to.

I know of them, never really interested in them that much though - guess that is why I chose Engineering . But just went over the material we were taught. Only can do so much in English classes I guess, and we did a fair amount. Even subjected me to Joyce. Ick.

[HoonDing]

The REAL state of Bruce: Fact vs Fiction.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

Then you have philosophers people should be familiar with if not at least aware of, but sadly a great many aren't: Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Descartes, Confucius, Aquinas, and Locke are all names one should know well.

 

I highly recommend reading all of the above. 

 

 

 

I honestly fail to see how Confucius would be relevant to anybody in the western world, and I'm one of those people who read not only him, but also a sizeable chunk of the commentary and related works written by his most prominent students.