So... what's exactly the stash?

[Elthalas]

An army of invisible and invulnerable donkeys that follows you trough the world?

A bottomless bag of holding?

Or are you in possesion of a magical wand capable of reducing objects to a miniature size?


I'm curious...



PS. I'm dissapointed with that feature... I mean, if you are trying to enhance immersion with the limited camp supplies (a great idea), you shoudn't destroy it with an inventory of infinite capacity.

[falchen]

It's just so all those crafting components or non-magical swords and armor you'll only sell next time you are in town don't clutter your main inventory. There's an option to restrict it though I'm not sure what that actually does.

[Baron Pampa]

The stash is a symptom of a minor flaw in the game's design, and I guess that's the definite answer xD. I too find the ability to collect every single xaurip's spear and sell it to nearest infinetely rich junk-collecting merchant immersion-bending, and largely contributing to the issue of swimming in money by the end of the game. More meaningful system of collecting and selling loot would have improved the game.
On the other hand - I prefer that lackluster approach over IE games equipment minigames...

Edited February 26, 2016 by Baron Pampa

[Gfted1]

Iirc, during PoE development, there was a push to remove certain player activities which the deveoplers determined to be "degenerative gameplay". It was observed by the developers that's certain players, not being able to carry all the loot at once, would walk back and forth from the loot drop locations until they had gathered all the loot. This activity was determined to be "degenerative gameplay", thus the creation of an infinite stash to remove this scourge. No, I'm not kidding.

[Gromnir]

the stash is a concession to game realities.  for years the developers watch players in game after game take multiple return trips to a dungeon or crypt to retrieve l007 they could not carry due to encumbrance limitations.  does such limitations make game more fun?  for some folks, perhaps, the immersive quality o' limited encumbrance enhances the game, but experience o' the developers suggested otherwise.  

 

unlimited stash were a recognition o' the manner in which many/most folks played the ie games.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[falchen]

Iirc, during PoE development, there was a push to remove certain player activities which the deveoplers determined to be "degenerative gameplay". It was observed by the developers that's certain players, not being able to carry all the loot at once, would walk back and forth from the loot drop locations until they had gathered all the loot. This activity was determined to be "degenerative gameplay", thus the creation of an infinite stash to remove this scourge. No, I'm not kidding.

 

Makes perfect sense to me, guess another alternative approach would have been to replace all those xaurip spear etc drops with straight up gold.

Edited February 26, 2016 by falchen

[Baron Pampa]

Personally I appreciated Dungeon Siege approach - a mule following your party, and a spell which transformed loot into gold:)

[why]

I think the syash was probably the hardest thing for me to get my head around. I knew why they did it, but it was always jarring. The might thing for spells also. Neither of them bother me too much now, but I still think they should have used a term other than 'might.'

[Gfted1]

Makes perfect sense to me, guess another alternative approach would have been to replace all those xaurip spear etc drops with straight up gold.

Too bad walking back and forth for camping supplies wasn't considered "degenerative gameplay".

[Messier-31]

The OP wants a scientific explanation.

[mazeltov]

A bottomless bag of holding?

 

That was how I immediately rationalized it, and haven't thought about it since. Perfectly immersive in the D&D fantasy space that PoE inhabits. Most D&D-like games incorporate bags of holding as an anti "inventory tetris" mechanism. And bless the devs for it. I even appreciate little touches like having Shift-click send items directly into the stash of holding, instead of clicking and dragging.

 

And selling directly to a merchant from the stash? Praise Eothas. A small amount of abstraction for the sake of a large reduction in drudgery is worth it. Area loot? Hallelujah.

Edited February 26, 2016 by mazeltov

[Gromnir]

 

Makes perfect sense to me, guess another alternative approach would have been to replace all those xaurip spear etc drops with straight up gold.

Too bad walking back and forth for camping supplies wasn't considered "degenerative gameplay".

 

to be fair, there were a fatigue mechanic that s'posed removed camping from the realm o' degenerative... constitution in many o' these kinda games becomes a dump stat for any character save for frontliners.  am not sure poe fatigue beyond combat ever worked as intended. that being said, we suspect that most gamers who choose the limited camping options that come with higher difficulties take limited camping supplies into account while making tactical and strategic choices.  

 

as for a scientific explanation to the stash, well, there isn't one.  is purely pragmatic.  sure, the developers coulda' made a functional wagon train o' mules to follow you, or make an implausible magic steamer trunk or somesuch available to you in the first village you visit, but why bother? coulda' used limited resources o' game development to 'create an internal coherent explanation for the stash, but what in the game would you have been willing to give up just to get such an explanation?  game development is zero-sum.  hours o' development to actualize features (bioware had their "zots" label) is limited.  if you want something added to the game to make a bottomless stash plausible, you is necessarily taking resources away from elsewhere.  so, let the gamer come up with their own explanation... or better yet, allow the gamer to accept that a bottomless stash were a pragmatic choice. every feature has a cost.  the benefit o' a feature that serves only to explain bottomless stash?  what value would you attach to such?  developers presumably attached low value. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited February 26, 2016 by Gromnir

[Baron Pampa]

I'd like to object. While I understand that there are better things to spend resources on, a neglected and bad(in terms of immersion, not functionality) aspect of the game stays bad regardless of the reasons . Moreover, details like this are crucial in building general atmoshpere of the game. I don't mean that the stash issue makes the game bad, but it's one of the minor annoyances. The mule in Dungeon Siege, on the other hand, had a suprisingly strong and positive effect on general feel of the game.Personally, I'd cut resources spent on creating dozens of meaningless trash fights; ). 

[Gromnir]

we got no doubt that for some folks, a plausible explanation for the stash that is internal rational with the gameworld is vital.  for Gromnir, such an explanation is unnecessary.  the developers gotta make a cost v. benefit decision while recognizing that folks such as pampa and Gromnir will both be playing poe. every game is gonna offer many such developer dilemmas.  developers gotta decide if an explanation for a pure pragmatic feature is genuine called for in light of costs to implement and given their perception o' the value o' the feature to the overall quality and enjoyability o' the game, yes? 

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps am recalling nwn after release.  were a poster on the boards, a regular, who were worked up 'bout shoes.  regardless o' footwear equipped 'pon a nwn avatar, appearance did not change.  this were a gamebreaker for the poster.  no visible shoes? surely the developers understood how immersion breaking such an oversight were for many folks?  the poster were genuine... meant every word.  game were unplayable w/o visible changes resulting from footwear choices.  for Gromnir, we woulda' liked footwear to be visible, but absence o' such weren't game breaking.

 

on the other hand, the stuttering problem we suffered at release were game breaking.

Edited February 26, 2016 by Gromnir

[why]

I agree that it con be off-putting, but I don't think it amounts to a particularly onerous obstacle. At least that's true for me.

[Baron Pampa]

[...],  yes? 

 

HA! Good Fun!

It seems that we agree that the current stash is unexplainable, that it was a pragmatic decision, and that they have to be made. For you this one is of no significance, for me it has little. So...yes;).

[Gromnir]

 

[...],  yes? 

 

HA! Good Fun!

It seems that we agree that the current stash is unexplainable, that it was a pragmatic decision, and that they have to be made. For you this one is of no significance, for me it has little. So...yes;).

 

agreed.  only reason we respond is 'cause genesis poster observed that the absence o' an explanation destroyed immersion and you observed that, "details like this are crucial in building general atmoshpere of the game."  am not gonna get into all the things wrong with immersion complaints, but our point simple were that the degree to which the stash destroys immersion is highly subjective.  is such details crucial?  not universal.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

[why]

Furthermore, when one person posits that feature x bothers them based on opinion y, he should expect that other folks might offer a defense of feature based on opinion z. If it's important enough for someone to be compelled to create a thread about it based on personal preference, some of might be added enough to post in that thread on the same basis. That's how these ideas battle in the forum. Immersion is no more an objective standard than other personal preferences. Looking over this, it comes across more combative than I intended, but the phone's a pain in the ass for posting, so read this as being more equable than it sounds.

[Elric Galad]

You all fools.

 

It's simply a woman's handbag.

[Messier-31]

*deleted*

Edited February 26, 2016 by Messier-31

[Messier-31]

HAMMERSPACE

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hammerspace

[Valorian]

While traveling on the caravan and pondering about Might, the MC saw a little (1cm x 1cm x 1cm) box below his seat and picked it up. Four strange symbols were inscribed on it, one on each side. He shrugged, put it in his pocket and continued pondering. After a few hours he had an AHA moment and figured out what scientists have been debating and trying to discover for ages; the ethereal Might is in the MIDDLE, physical and spiritual strength drag each other up or down! Meaning, in numerical form to not be too abstract, 10 Might is the product of 7 physical and 13 spiritual or 5 spiritual and 15 physical etc.

 

Happy with this revelation, he rummaged in his pocket and extracted the cube. He started pressing the different symbols and suddenly the little cube became a large 1m x 1m x 1m box! He was shocked and one of his daggers dropped inside the box. He was even more shocked to discover the dagger was now 50 times smaller and lighter. Once picked up outside the box the dagger returned to its normal size. Thankfully, his excellent memory allowed him to reproduce the order in which he needed to push the symbols. He bought tweezers the next day. The end.

[Elthalas]

Hehe well, that was interesting.
Nah, I don't really think that precisely this thing destroyed immersion and ruined my game... I only thought it was funny because probably is one of the most inexplicable and meta features I encounter in the mechanics. And also, it made me think about the invisible army of mules.

I think it's a complicated debate, because... well, where do you draw the line betwen concensions to the players and chewing the food for them (or worst, encouraging cheesy behaviors)? Because in Baldurs Gate I never returned for loot, and I was not trying to RPing or anything. I was simply playing, and I wasn't going to bored myself to death selling every kobold short sword in the mines. I think the idea of coming and going for loot a little... MMOesque. And I find all the loot aspect of Pillars a little pointless (I mean, the ingredient and crafting system is pure... nonsense, and totally automatic. Like, well, the Stronghold. The stronghold is more browser-based game, but anyway).

Well, thats my opinion anyway. I don't think it's an important problem, only... baffling. I can roleplay anyway, and I try not to loot everything that's not nailed to the ground. The IE games had a lot of problems in the mechanics and that didn't limit my enjoyment or my immersion, because... well, immersion is more tied to the writting and the story and your character. Thing is, I'm 40 hours in my first playtrough and I feel that a little lacking, but... that's for another discussion.

Cheers!

[Baron Pampa]

 

 

 

[...],  yes? 

 

HA! Good Fun!

It seems that we agree that the current stash is unexplainable, that it was a pragmatic decision, and that they have to be made. For you this one is of no significance, for me it has little. So...yes;).

 

agreed.  only reason we respond is 'cause genesis poster observed that the absence o' an explanation destroyed immersion and you observed that, "details like this are crucial in building general atmoshpere of the game."  am not gonna get into all the things wrong with immersion complaints, but our point simple were that the degree to which the stash destroys immersion is highly subjective.  is such details crucial?  not universal.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Wouldn't you agree that the while every single little detail can be deemed unimportant and dismissed, the totality of them is important in building atmosphere? At least for me a high polish brings a feeling of coherence and believability into a work of fiction. And a large amount of poorly treated little things creates a somewhat repelling feel. An example of that, I think, is the case of using multiple languages in a movie. Making every character speak the language he should speak requires a lot of work for the creators of the movie, and often can be safely ignored because the audience won't miss it very much. But when it is actually introduced, it's something that matters - at least to me.

 

Are there any "general immersion theories" out there? A thought ocurred to me that people have different claims on what makes a game immersive, and whether "immersion" is important or not. But probably many, possibly including me, don't *know* what they really want;).

 

PS. I've got a better example. Running everywhere in video games is annoying. There has to be some kind of fast travel system. But if it's well integrated with the lore and incorporated into the game mechanics, it contributes to the game. The example is Morrowind - how awkard the directions sometimes were, and flawed the journal, the combination of silk striders, boats and teleports surely deepend the famous "immersion"...especially in comparison with  Oblivion, in which Bethesta took a more pragmatic approach.

Edited February 26, 2016 by Baron Pampa

[house2fly]

If you complain about the stash on the basis of immersion without also complaining about the 16 inventory slots and 4 quick slots you are a fake gamer.