the_dog_days Posted April 14, 2016 Posted April 14, 2016 They don't need a probowler, but a solid starter who won't miss every other game, not because of the talent they have but because they need to sell to the people of California to buy tickets when there are three(?) NFL teams in the state.
Bartimaeus Posted April 14, 2016 Posted April 14, 2016 Four: 49ers, Rams, Chargers, Raiders. Quote How I have existed fills me with horror. For I have failed in everything - spelling, arithmetic, riding, tennis, golf; dancing, singing, acting; wife, mistress, whore, friend. Even cooking. And I do not excuse myself with the usual escape of 'not trying'. I tried with all my heart. In my dreams, I am not crippled. In my dreams, I dance.
Gromnir Posted April 14, 2016 Author Posted April 14, 2016 I mean, to be fair, nobody saw Tom Brady or Russel Wilson period, either. You make do with what the draft gives you. ...That said, it's kind of funny that the Rams are now on the "to the top" end of this sort of trade, when they were the one receiving all the picks when RG3 was being drafted. history has been, for the most part, unkind to those who trade up or into the first round in pursuit o' a qb: rg iii, mark sanchez, jason campbell, ryan leaf, tim tebow, blaine gabbert, etc. 'course, is always the same proviso that if the qb selected (wentz or goff) becomes a franchise qb, then the trade is at least looking less foolish. regardless, am feeling bad for the new rams qb. rams needs include wr and ol. with fewer picks, the chances that rams upgrade the rest o' the offense through this draft is diminished. the trade looks to us like a desperation move by rams coaching and management 'cause those guys is in danger o' being fired and the rams do Need a qb. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
Keyrock Posted April 14, 2016 Posted April 14, 2016 I hope the Cowboys take Deforest Buckner at #4. They desperately need a pass rush and Buckner seems to have all the tools to be an elite edge rusher. Hopefully Derrick Henry slips to the second round and the Boys can scoop him up at 34. I know Dallas needs a lot more help on the defensive side of the ball, but I feel Henry is a rare talent. A big, beefy downhill between the tackles runner is a perfect match for the Boys offensive line, plus he has decent receiving skills, deceptive speed for a guy his size, and good pass protection skills (which is extremely important given Romo's injury history). RFK Jr 2024 "Any organization created out of fear must create fear to survive." - Bill Hicks
the_dog_days Posted April 14, 2016 Posted April 14, 2016 I think Henry is a prime bust candidate. He's a straight line runner, needs to get a head of steam, isn't very flexible/has limited lateral movement, and benefited from a great offensive line and a run heavy scheme. Not that he wasn't a great college back, but at best I think he's a Brandon Jacobs clone.
Keyrock Posted April 14, 2016 Posted April 14, 2016 A straight line between the tackles runner is the exact type of runner that Dallas' O-line was built for, though. There's value in having a guy who you can just hand it to on 3rd and 2 and he can just lower his shoulder and get the 1st consistently, even if the defense puts 8 in the box. RFK Jr 2024 "Any organization created out of fear must create fear to survive." - Bill Hicks
the_dog_days Posted April 14, 2016 Posted April 14, 2016 I don't think he's going to be a bad back, I just think that you can find another back just like him in the fourth round up to rookie free agency.
Gromnir Posted April 15, 2016 Author Posted April 15, 2016 I think Henry is a prime bust candidate. He's a straight line runner, needs to get a head of steam, isn't very flexible/has limited lateral movement, and benefited from a great offensive line and a run heavy scheme. Not that he wasn't a great college back, but at best I think he's a Brandon Jacobs clone. am thinking jacobs had more upside (*groan*) than henry. college and the nfl is different. the alabama ol consistent opened holes according to playbook. henry didn't need much o' a hole to exploit for big runs-- he was a great college rb. am not underestimating how great were henry. only took henry a little daylight. unfortunately, in the nfl, a rb typical needs be far more aware than in college, 'cause chances are that hole #1 is not gonna be available. also, being aware that a cutback lane has sudden opened is wasted in the nfl if the rb does not have at least good acceleration from change o' direction. film o' henry highlights a particular flaw regarding acceleration outta a cut. far too many negative plays at the college level. a great college qb can thrive despite only decent accuracy if he has good athleticism and great awareness. that great college qb will fail in the nfl. time and time again we see that if the shortcoming is accuracy, the college superstar fails in the nfl regardless o' other qualities. similarly, a nfl rb needs to be able to make at least one good cut. not need to be barry sanders or gale sayers. one cut. if the rb cannot accelerate outta the cut, he is doomed to being a situational back... at best. am seeing henry as an nfl bust. HA! God Fun! 1 "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
Hurlshort Posted April 15, 2016 Posted April 15, 2016 They don't need a probowler, but a solid starter who won't miss every other game, not because of the talent they have but because they need to sell to the people of California to buy tickets when there are three(?) NFL teams in the state. You are not competing with other teams in the state. California is huge. It is really just about overcoming the apathy of the LA area.
ManifestedISO Posted April 15, 2016 Posted April 15, 2016 Looking at the new schedule. Unless it snows in Denver on Halloween Eve, there'll be but one brrrr-cold game all season: Christmas Eve in Cleveland. Ohio! All Stop. On Screen.
kgambit Posted April 18, 2016 Posted April 18, 2016 (edited) https://www.instagram.com/p/BEJs5a7G0O0/?taken-by=vonmiller Edited April 18, 2016 by kgambit 2
Bartimaeus Posted April 18, 2016 Posted April 18, 2016 Heh, that took a second. Quote How I have existed fills me with horror. For I have failed in everything - spelling, arithmetic, riding, tennis, golf; dancing, singing, acting; wife, mistress, whore, friend. Even cooking. And I do not excuse myself with the usual escape of 'not trying'. I tried with all my heart. In my dreams, I am not crippled. In my dreams, I dance.
ManifestedISO Posted April 19, 2016 Posted April 19, 2016 Not quite as funny as indoor water polo sacking ... outdoor sitdown basketball bowling. First day back! All the FA FNGs showed up for voluntary workouts. Record heat this week, yesterday was the hottest 17 April ever. All Stop. On Screen.
kgambit Posted April 19, 2016 Posted April 19, 2016 (edited) So, is Wentz being considered the better prospect over Goff? I honestly don't think either guy is a franchise QB, which is why I hope the Cowboys don't take a QB in the draft, even though they desperately need someone soon to replace Tony Romo, whose body is held together by formaldehyde and the hopes and prayers of Cowboys fans. That said, I'd take Goff over Wentz. And the Rams appear to agree. Reports are that Goff was the higher rated of the two by both the Rams and the Browns - (small hands and all - lol) as he was considered more "pro ready" than Wentz. With the Rams likely taking Goff, the Browns are now actively trying to trade out of the second pick. Which is probably a really smart move considering they have a real shortness of talent on the team. Stockpiling picks is probably a lot smarter than drafting a quarterback at this stage. Getting something close to the haul the Titans got would be a great deal. Iggles and the Jets interested? Edited April 19, 2016 by kgambit 1
Keyrock Posted April 19, 2016 Posted April 19, 2016 (edited) Makes sense. You don't trade away a king's ransom to move up to #1 and take a guy who's going to sit for a year or two. If you're trading up to #1 you're picking a guy who's going to start week 1. Just about everybody, even the people who think Wentz will be the better QB eventually, thinks that Goff is more ready to play in the NFL right now. Edited April 19, 2016 by Keyrock 1 RFK Jr 2024 "Any organization created out of fear must create fear to survive." - Bill Hicks
kgambit Posted April 19, 2016 Posted April 19, 2016 Johnny Manziel gets dumped as a client again. First LBJ's MRMR marketing firm dropped him in January, then Erik Burkhardt dumped him a month later and now Drew Rosenhaus dumps him.
Keyrock Posted April 19, 2016 Posted April 19, 2016 I think it's safe to say that Johnny Football's NFL days are behind him now. At this rate, I'm not sure he'll even have much of a CFL career. RFK Jr 2024 "Any organization created out of fear must create fear to survive." - Bill Hicks
kgambit Posted April 19, 2016 Posted April 19, 2016 I think it's safe to say that Johnny Football's NFL days are behind him now. At this rate, I'm not sure he'll even have much of a CFL career. Arena football? 2
the_dog_days Posted April 19, 2016 Posted April 19, 2016 Johnny Manziel gets dumped as a client again. First LBJ's MRMR marketing firm dropped him in January, then Erik Burkhardt dumped him a month later and now Drew Rosenhaus dumps him. I saw that. Rosenhaus has represented some of the biggest NFL problem children but he dropped Manzel (first client he's ever dropped) in a single Lunar cycle. My take is that he didn't think Manzel can make Chad Johnson money.
Gromnir Posted April 19, 2016 Author Posted April 19, 2016 browns face a couple problems. first is getting value for their pick. there is an actual trade value chart for draft picks... no joke. pick #2 is worth 2600, and pick one in worth 3000. http://walterfootball.com/draftchart.php potential franchise qbs are almost invariably overvalued by those who hold the pick, so getting value is tough.... which brings one to second problem: nobody wants to trade away a franchise qb. you can win in the nfl without a franchise qb, but it is tough. teams know that virtual all needs at other positions could be filled, but w/o a good qb, one is likely gonna be doomed to mediocrity. pass on a franchise qb is considered foolish. that being said, trade the pick makes sense to us. whoever plays qb for the browns next year is gonna be deserving a special kinda hazard pay. david carr, a promising qb who could make all the throws and were universal lauded by scouts and gms, were mauled in his first couple years in the league. am suspecting that regardless o' wentz's talent, he would suffer a historic bad season or two in cleveland before there were even a possibility o' the situation improving. considering that the guy is coming to the nfl from ndsu, the learning curve would be a bit steep. add insult to (inevitable) injury and have him lead the browns to guarantee failure is hardly an ideal way to groom a young qb. take the picks and drop down in the draft makes sense, but given the haul the titans received, the browns is gonna feel they deserve value similar as adjusted by the linked chart. am suspecting the browns ain't gonna get such value. consensus is that the rams gave too much to move. expect proportional stoopidity from another team could result in disappointment. am admitting that there is kinda a quality logjam after the top five guys + 2 qbs. the qbs is overrated, but such is the nature o' the nfl. tunsil and ramsey are consensus elite prospects. bosa would be in the same category as tunsil and ramsey, but he has enough off-field red flags to drop him into our borderline elites: jack, buckner and the aforementioned bosa. the next 7-8 guys is excellent prospects, but they all got some issue or two that keeps 'em from being instant starters who likely reach the pro bowl at some point in their career. and then there is the rest o' the first round guys who all got similar grades from most scouts... save for robert nkemdiche who is pretty much daring nfl teams to draft him every time he does an interview. other than the top 5 guys + 2 qbs, we wouldn't be shocked by any team that chooses need instead o' so-called best player available, 'cause after 5+2, the rest o' the first round has similar talent. this is gonna be one o' the few years wherein we don't wonder why such-n'-such team were so stoopid for choosing __________ with the __ pick. doesn't actual look as if it much matters after 5+2. 'course the remainder o' the draft will have plenty o' surprises to make up for a relative unbreakable first round. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
the_dog_days Posted April 19, 2016 Posted April 19, 2016 With nearly seven or eight of the top QBs being in their mid to late thirties, I foresee a QB drought in two to four years with guys either retiring or wearing down to eventual backup status. Late 2010's NFL could look a lot like early 2000's with teams with a good run game and great defense winning Super Bowls (at least of a couple year stretch).
Bartimaeus Posted April 19, 2016 Posted April 19, 2016 browns face a couple problems. first is getting value for their pick. there is an actual trade value chart for draft picks... no joke. pick #2 is worth 2600, and pick one in worth 3000. http://walterfootball.com/draftchart.php I like this chart better (a little down the page after it references the chart you just linked), since it actually has clear methodology and isn't just a bunch of numbers seemingly arbitrarily chosen by whoever made it. However, the value both charts give for the 1st and 2nd picks are actually pretty close to each other (when adjusted for the different systems of "value", anyways - the #1 pick has 14% greater value than the #2 pick in mine, 15% in yours), so your point remains. Quote How I have existed fills me with horror. For I have failed in everything - spelling, arithmetic, riding, tennis, golf; dancing, singing, acting; wife, mistress, whore, friend. Even cooking. And I do not excuse myself with the usual escape of 'not trying'. I tried with all my heart. In my dreams, I am not crippled. In my dreams, I dance.
kgambit Posted April 20, 2016 Posted April 20, 2016 browns face a couple problems. first is getting value for their pick. there is an actual trade value chart for draft picks... no joke. pick #2 is worth 2600, and pick one in worth 3000. http://walterfootball.com/draftchart.php I like this chart better (a little down the page after it references the chart you just linked), since it actually has clear methodology and isn't just a bunch of numbers seemingly arbitrarily chosen by whoever made it. However, the value both charts give for the 1st and 2nd picks are actually pretty close to each other (when adjusted for the different systems of "value", anyways - the #1 pick has 14% greater value than the #2 pick in mine, 15% in yours), so your point remains. It would take the Iggles 1st rounder plus their 2 3rd round picks this year and their 1st and 3rd round picks in 2017. If the Iggles offer that or some variation on it, the Browns should jump on it.* *Using grom's chart
Gfted1 Posted April 20, 2016 Posted April 20, 2016 Browns trading No. 2 pick to Eagles for five picks. 1 "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa"
kgambit Posted April 20, 2016 Posted April 20, 2016 (edited) Browns trading No. 2 pick to Eagles for five picks. Browns get a 1st, 3rd and 4th this year; a 1st in 2017 and 2nd in 2018. The Iggles get the 2nd overall pick this year and a conditional 4th rd in 2017. Overall that's a great deal for the Browns. They have more holes than a sieve. http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/15280364/cleveland-browns-trade-no-2-pick-draft-philadelphia-eagles-five-picks Edited April 20, 2016 by kgambit
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