US Elections 2016

[BruceVC]

http://www.inquisitr.com/2728067/bernie-sanders-polls-after-opening-up-big-lead-in-iowa-the-sanders-surge-appears-to-be-very-real/

 

Oh my hat this is big news

 

Sanders really appears to be beating Clinton in Iowa ....and this is a CNN poll which are generally non-partisan 

[Barothmuk]

Baro its almost unethical and seems to lack integrity to attack an institution like the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation

And yet I'm not the one investing in the prison industrial complex.

[BruceVC]

 

Baro its almost unethical and seems to lack integrity to attack an institution like the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation

And yet I'm not the one investing in the prison industrial complex.

 

I'm not sure if you are being serious or just being controversial?

 

How can we seriously think that some internal donations to places like the prison system in the USA by the Gates foundation in anyway should undermine the billions of dollars they have given away in the interests of making the world a more equitable place

 

http://www.viraltide.com/top-charitable-donors-in-the-world/8/

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-gates-foundation-giving-away-a-fortune/

 

If you want to attack greedy Capitalists then focus on people like Trump but to criticize someone like Bill Gates seems incomprehensible to me?

[Meshugger]

http://www.inquisitr.com/2728067/bernie-sanders-polls-after-opening-up-big-lead-in-iowa-the-sanders-surge-appears-to-be-very-real/

 

Oh my hat this is big news

 

Sanders really appears to be beating Clinton in Iowa ....and this is a CNN poll which are generally non-partisan 

 

Good, good. 

 

Who ever wins, the global establishment loses. 

[BruceVC]

 

http://www.inquisitr.com/2728067/bernie-sanders-polls-after-opening-up-big-lead-in-iowa-the-sanders-surge-appears-to-be-very-real/

 

Oh my hat this is big news

 

Sanders really appears to be beating Clinton in Iowa ....and this is a CNN poll which are generally non-partisan 

 

Good, good. 

 

Who ever wins, the global establishment loses. 

 

Okay so let me not be so arrogant to assume Sanders has no chance of being the next Democratic presidential  candidate and therefore also possibly the next USA president 

 

But why would Clinton or Sanders impact the global establishment? What do you mean by the global establishment anyway?

[Barothmuk]

I'm not sure if you are being serious or just being controversial?

 

How can we seriously think that some internal donations to places like the prison system in the USA by the Gates foundation in anyway should undermine the billions of dollars they have given away in the interests of making the world a more equitable place

It's not just the prison system

 

 

 

 

Could've solved world hunger with all that money.

 

If you want to attack greedy Capitalists then focus on people like Trump but to criticize someone like Bill Gates seems incomprehensible to me?

Seeing how many fingers he has in many pots Mr. Gates has probably done more damage than Trump.

[Guard Dog]

 

 What do you mean by the global establishment anyway?

You know, the Oligarchs who meet in a smoky back room who actually control everything and everyone. Read all about them here: http://www.realworldorder.net/

 

[Hurlshort]

 

The folks who live on the Texas border who are typically the victims of the crimes of border jumpers might disagree with you on that one. Laredo, Eagle Pass, and El Paso have real problems with Mexican drug cartels and their use of people who cross the border unimpeded. I'm guessing Kate Steinle would disagree also if she hadn't been murdered by an illegal that had already been deported five times for criminal acts and came back a sixth. Don't know that name? That's ok Barack Obama didn't either, although this happened in San Francisco. 

 

 

While I realize it is faulty logic to paint the many with the actions of a few it sickens me to see people gloss over the criminal acts, many of them violent, of people who are breaking our laws just being here. The governments of Europe are doing the same thing by glossing over the rapes and assaults by those mindless savages they are importing from the middle east. The folks on the left who want this to happen don't want to hear about the harm it causes to people who wanted nothing more than to live their lives in peace in their home countries. 

 

 

Oh, I know the name, I was with my family at the pier just days before she was shot.  However I'm much quicker to blame a terrible mental health care system than our porous border.  This wasn't a criminal mastermind, he was a crazy person who didn't get the help he needed in either country.  He always was deported, multiple times, so it would seem that the INS was actually doing their job in this case.  

 

That aside, my comment on diversity was actually about Bill Gates, capacity, and the refugee situation.  Which has little to do with illegal immigration.  

 

Also, I think it is fair to point out that you live in a wide open space and I live in a community of field workers with questionable immigration status.  I've helped our babysitter get citizenship, for goodness sake.  They aren't all criminals, anymore than we all are criminals.

[BruceVC]

 

I'm not sure if you are being serious or just being controversial?

 

How can we seriously think that some internal donations to places like the prison system in the USA by the Gates foundation in anyway should undermine the billions of dollars they have given away in the interests of making the world a more equitable place

It's not just the prison system

 

 

 

 

Could've solved world hunger with all that money.

 

If you want to attack greedy Capitalists then focus on people like Trump but to criticize someone like Bill Gates seems incomprehensible to me?

Seeing how many fingers he has in many pots Mr. Gates has probably done more damage than Trump.

 

Okay now I see your point, you are highlighting the supposed contradictions when Bills Gates says he cares about climate change yet he donates millions to various energy companies

 

Yes that is a debatable point and I can understand the question but in future please just tell me directly this is what you are getting at because I thought you were dismissing there donations in places like Africa and only focusing on what they gave to institutions like the prison system. And I enjoy debates with you but I would prefer we just debate what you are really asking and not  what I think you mean..so it other words I sometimes misunderstand you 

 

So for me I have no issues with donations to energy companies from people because all energy companies also invest and  have policies around renewable energy and cleaner energy ...so how do we know that Gates actually didn't donate to those companies for exactly the reason that he supports there renewable energy initiatives?

 

I get your point but it doesn't mean Gates is a hypocrite or necessarily inconsistent in his views 

[Bartimaeus]

Hmm, do you have to be convicted to be a criminal, or do just have to be engaging in criminal behavior? If the former, illegal immigrants technically wouldn't be criminals until actually caught and sentenced...if the latter, most of us probably are criminals because of random, obscure laws x, y, and z (that may or may not actually ever be enforced) that we've broken sometime or another...

[BruceVC]

 

 

 What do you mean by the global establishment anyway?

You know, the Oligarchs who meet in a smoky back room who actually control everything and everyone. Read all about them here: http://www.realworldorder.net/

 

 

 

Do you realize there are people who really believe this 

[Guard Dog]

 

 

The folks who live on the Texas border who are typically the victims of the crimes of border jumpers might disagree with you on that one. Laredo, Eagle Pass, and El Paso have real problems with Mexican drug cartels and their use of people who cross the border unimpeded. I'm guessing Kate Steinle would disagree also if she hadn't been murdered by an illegal that had already been deported five times for criminal acts and came back a sixth. Don't know that name? That's ok Barack Obama didn't either, although this happened in San Francisco. 

 

 

While I realize it is faulty logic to paint the many with the actions of a few it sickens me to see people gloss over the criminal acts, many of them violent, of people who are breaking our laws just being here. The governments of Europe are doing the same thing by glossing over the rapes and assaults by those mindless savages they are importing from the middle east. The folks on the left who want this to happen don't want to hear about the harm it causes to people who wanted nothing more than to live their lives in peace in their home countries. 

 

 

Oh, I know the name, I was with my family at the pier just days before she was shot.  However I'm much quicker to blame a terrible mental health care system than our porous border.  This wasn't a criminal mastermind, he was a crazy person who didn't get the help he needed in either country.  He always was deported, multiple times, so it would seem that the INS was actually doing their job in this case.  

 

That aside, my comment on diversity was actually about Bill Gates, capacity, and the refugee situation.  Which has little to do with illegal immigration.  

 

Also, I think it is fair to point out that you live in a wide open space and I live in a community of field workers with questionable immigration status.  I've helped our babysitter get citizenship, for goodness sake.  They aren't all criminals, anymore than we all are criminals.

 

I'm not suggesting they all are. Or even most. But it is undeniable that by allowing in people who are not criminals we are bringing in many who are. But I was taking issue with your notion that people who are opposed to simply allowing illegals to walk in were so positioned out of some fear of diversity. While I'm certain that is true for some lets not kid ourselves that there isn't some real concerns for the safety of the people already living here from the ones who had no problem breaking one law to come and have no problems breaking others while here.

 

Of course what do I know. Where I live diversity means a fox squirrel and a gray squirrel living in the same tree.

[Calax]

Point of Order...

 

Does Bill Gates control what his company invests in? Or does he run it through an investment firm that doesn't give two stinky farts about idology, only about getting more green.

[Guard Dog]

 

 

 

 What do you mean by the global establishment anyway?

You know, the Oligarchs who meet in a smoky back room who actually control everything and everyone. Read all about them here: http://www.realworldorder.net/

 

 

 

Do you realize there are people who really believe this 

 

Yep, I know a few of them too. Some folks are just wired to see shadows in every corner. "Just because you're paranoid does not mean they are not all out to get you!"

[BruceVC]

Point of Order...

 

Does Bill Gates control what his company invests in? Or does he run it through an investment firm that doesn't give two stinky farts about idology, only about getting more green.

A very good question considering the billions of dollars involved 

 

It would vary from person to person but I imagine Bill Gates would be quite hands-on and at least be aware of the types of sectors they donate to. So yes he would be aware of donations to the energy sector which as I explained can be perfectly reasonable 

[Guard Dog]

This has nothing to do with what we are talking about right now but it is a great column from Jeff Jacoby of the Boston Globe today: http://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/editorials/2016/01/24/obama-vowed-healer-chief-never-made-effort/0XR8wPoJwRVkFoPMVJaD2H/story.html

 

It's a good read.

[Barothmuk]

Okay now I see your point, you are highlighting the supposed contradictions when Bills Gates says he cares about climate change yet he donates millions to various energy companies

And the PIC, and military contractors, and Walmart etc.

 

I thought you were dismissing there donations in places like Africa and only focusing on what they gave to institutions like the prison system.

I am dismissing their donations to places in Africa. When you're sitting on near 80 billion tossing aside a couple of million isn't particularly impressive.

 

And I enjoy debates with you but I would prefer we just debate what you are really asking and not  what I think you mean..so it other words I sometimes misunderstand you

It's 2:30 in the morning here. I'm sleepposting.

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

The folks who live on the Texas border who are typically the victims of the crimes of border jumpers might disagree with you on that one. Laredo, Eagle Pass, and El Paso have real problems with Mexican drug cartels and their use of people who cross the border unimpeded. I'm guessing Kate Steinle would disagree also if she hadn't been murdered by an illegal that had already been deported five times for criminal acts and came back a sixth. Don't know that name? That's ok Barack Obama didn't either, although this happened in San Francisco. 

 

 

While I realize it is faulty logic to paint the many with the actions of a few it sickens me to see people gloss over the criminal acts, many of them violent, of people who are breaking our laws just being here. The governments of Europe are doing the same thing by glossing over the rapes and assaults by those mindless savages they are importing from the middle east. The folks on the left who want this to happen don't want to hear about the harm it causes to people who wanted nothing more than to live their lives in peace in their home countries. 

 

 

Oh, I know the name, I was with my family at the pier just days before she was shot.  However I'm much quicker to blame a terrible mental health care system than our porous border.  This wasn't a criminal mastermind, he was a crazy person who didn't get the help he needed in either country.  He always was deported, multiple times, so it would seem that the INS was actually doing their job in this case.  

 

That aside, my comment on diversity was actually about Bill Gates, capacity, and the refugee situation.  Which has little to do with illegal immigration.  

 

Also, I think it is fair to point out that you live in a wide open space and I live in a community of field workers with questionable immigration status.  I've helped our babysitter get citizenship, for goodness sake.  They aren't all criminals, anymore than we all are criminals.

 

I'm not suggesting they all are. Or even most. But it is undeniable that by allowing in people who are not criminals we are bringing in many who are. But I was taking issue with your notion that people who are opposed to simply allowing illegals to walk in were so positioned out of some fear of diversity. While I'm certain that is true for some lets not kid ourselves that there isn't some real concerns for the safety of the people already living here from the ones who had no problem breaking one law to come and have no problems breaking others while here.

 

Of course what do I know. Where I live diversity means a fox squirrel and a gray squirrel living in the same tree.

 

You funny  

 

Do you know the  difference between a fox squirrel and gray squirrel ? Have you ever eaten squirrel, I was watching one episode of  Bizarre Foods America and Andrew Zimmerman eats squirrel in West Virginia. I love that show, its legitimate and I  always think what he eats always looks so yummy. I am a very experimental eater and basically eat everything and all parts of an animal but I won't eat insects. But check these slide out

 

http://www.travelchannel.com/shows/bizarre-foods/photos/bizarre-foods-america-west-virginia-pictures

[Calax]

This has nothing to do with what we are talking about right now but it is a great column from Jeff Jacoby of the Boston Globe today: http://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/editorials/2016/01/24/obama-vowed-healer-chief-never-made-effort/0XR8wPoJwRVkFoPMVJaD2H/story.html

 

It's a good read.

I think most of the comments that Jeff used were essentially the President letting off steam. Consider that he's been stuck in this position of power, with more than half of the people he has to work with deliberately declaring in the media "We won't work with him, we will make him a one term president and oppose him at every turn!" You'd get frustrated if every thing you tried to do was refuted out of spite simply because of your political viewpoint. And while you're trying to be a humanitarian and make peoples lives easier and better, you're getting stymied simply because the other side doesn't want you to succeed (not out of the kindness of their own hearts).

 

He's working with a group of politicians who declare that 9/11 first responders were national heroes and treasures, and yet they only extended the health benefits for those guys after a massive campaign by Jon Stewart. And even then the bill didn't get into what they were promised it would get into.

[Meshugger]

 

 

 What do you mean by the global establishment anyway?

You know, the Oligarchs who meet in a smoky back room who actually control everything and everyone. Read all about them here: http://www.realworldorder.net/

 

 

 

Wall Street certainly has gone through a change of PR, i have to say.

 

//edit: made me laugh

 

Edited January 24, 2016 by Meshugger

[Guard Dog]

 

This has nothing to do with what we are talking about right now but it is a great column from Jeff Jacoby of the Boston Globe today: http://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/editorials/2016/01/24/obama-vowed-healer-chief-never-made-effort/0XR8wPoJwRVkFoPMVJaD2H/story.html

 

It's a good read.

I think most of the comments that Jeff used were essentially the President letting off steam. Consider that he's been stuck in this position of power, with more than half of the people he has to work with deliberately declaring in the media "We won't work with him, we will make him a one term president and oppose him at every turn!" You'd get frustrated if every thing you tried to do was refuted out of spite simply because of your political viewpoint. And while you're trying to be a humanitarian and make peoples lives easier and better, you're getting stymied simply because the other side doesn't want you to succeed (not out of the kindness of their own hearts).

 

He's working with a group of politicians who declare that 9/11 first responders were national heroes and treasures, and yet they only extended the health benefits for those guys after a massive campaign by Jon Stewart. And even then the bill didn't get into what they were promised it would get into.

 

Right there Calax you are doing the same thing he is: Rejecting the notion that opposition to anything he wants to do is rooted solely in racism or personal animus rather than and well thought out but opposing viewpoint. You see him as the "good guy" who only wants to help people. That makes anyone opposed to doing that or going about it his way the "bad guys". That is exactly why we Americans will be shooting at each other again in the future.

[Oerwinde]

 

 

 

 

 

The ignorant liberal elite, right there. The capacity, he says. What an arrogant thing to say, when he would never feel this capacity.

 

I don't know man, the people I see complaining about immigration the most tend to live in wide open spaces surrounded by mostly white people. Typically living among a diverse community makes it harder to be against diversity.

The opposite seems to be true with my family. My mother, like myself, lives in an area that is plenty racially diverse. She cannot stand black people (though she makes an exception for my black cousin) or Hispanic people. My extended family however, being the reasonable people they are don't have any issues at all with minorities; though they live in pretty much all white neighborhoods because of their wealth.

I find this as well, my 95% white hometown was all about welcoming minorities and such, in greater Vancouver everyone hates the chinese and indians because they make up 50% of the population.

 

Familiarity breeds contempt.

Edited January 24, 2016 by Oerwinde

[Calax]

 

 

This has nothing to do with what we are talking about right now but it is a great column from Jeff Jacoby of the Boston Globe today: http://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/editorials/2016/01/24/obama-vowed-healer-chief-never-made-effort/0XR8wPoJwRVkFoPMVJaD2H/story.html

 

It's a good read.

I think most of the comments that Jeff used were essentially the President letting off steam. Consider that he's been stuck in this position of power, with more than half of the people he has to work with deliberately declaring in the media "We won't work with him, we will make him a one term president and oppose him at every turn!" You'd get frustrated if every thing you tried to do was refuted out of spite simply because of your political viewpoint. And while you're trying to be a humanitarian and make peoples lives easier and better, you're getting stymied simply because the other side doesn't want you to succeed (not out of the kindness of their own hearts).

 

He's working with a group of politicians who declare that 9/11 first responders were national heroes and treasures, and yet they only extended the health benefits for those guys after a massive campaign by Jon Stewart. And even then the bill didn't get into what they were promised it would get into.

 

Right there Calax you are doing the same thing he is: Rejecting the notion that opposition to anything he wants to do is rooted solely in racism or personal animus rather than and well thought out but opposing viewpoint. You see him as the "good guy" who only wants to help people. That makes anyone opposed to doing that or going about it his way the "bad guys". That is exactly why we Americans will be shooting at each other again in the future.

 

Yes and no. Yes, I do think that he's being targeted out of political expediancy rather than somebody genuinely disagreeing with him. And I'm not pulling this out of nowhere, it's why the vocal party base (ie the most radical members) of the republican party (Like WOD) consider John Beohner to be an utter failure because they didn't get 100% of what they wanted.

 

And here's an example from 2010 of how the Republican party had been operating towards Obama

http://www.politico.com/story/2010/10/the-gops-no-compromise-pledge-044311

 

I'm not saying that republicans are inherently evil, or that they have **** ideas or whatever, what I'm saying is that for the entire Obama administration, Obama has had to deal with a political machine that's not dedicated to compromise or advancing their own political agenda, it's singular goal was to stop him and his agenda at all costs. Meanwhile your globe article is grumbling about how Obama is grumbling and teasing about not being able to get common ground. Our entire political system is designed for compromise, but the current tone from the republican side of the aisle is "My way or go **** yourself!"

[Hurlshort]

It takes two to tango, as they say.  

[Guard Dog]

 

 

 

This has nothing to do with what we are talking about right now but it is a great column from Jeff Jacoby of the Boston Globe today: http://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/editorials/2016/01/24/obama-vowed-healer-chief-never-made-effort/0XR8wPoJwRVkFoPMVJaD2H/story.html

 

It's a good read.

I think most of the comments that Jeff used were essentially the President letting off steam. Consider that he's been stuck in this position of power, with more than half of the people he has to work with deliberately declaring in the media "We won't work with him, we will make him a one term president and oppose him at every turn!" You'd get frustrated if every thing you tried to do was refuted out of spite simply because of your political viewpoint. And while you're trying to be a humanitarian and make peoples lives easier and better, you're getting stymied simply because the other side doesn't want you to succeed (not out of the kindness of their own hearts).

 

He's working with a group of politicians who declare that 9/11 first responders were national heroes and treasures, and yet they only extended the health benefits for those guys after a massive campaign by Jon Stewart. And even then the bill didn't get into what they were promised it would get into.

 

Right there Calax you are doing the same thing he is: Rejecting the notion that opposition to anything he wants to do is rooted solely in racism or personal animus rather than and well thought out but opposing viewpoint. You see him as the "good guy" who only wants to help people. That makes anyone opposed to doing that or going about it his way the "bad guys". That is exactly why we Americans will be shooting at each other again in the future.

 

Yes and no. Yes, I do think that he's being targeted out of political expediancy rather than somebody genuinely disagreeing with him. And I'm not pulling this out of nowhere, it's why the vocal party base (ie the most radical members) of the republican party (Like WOD) consider John Beohner to be an utter failure because they didn't get 100% of what they wanted.

 

And here's an example from 2010 of how the Republican party had been operating towards Obama

http://www.politico.com/story/2010/10/the-gops-no-compromise-pledge-044311

 

I'm not saying that republicans are inherently evil, or that they have **** ideas or whatever, what I'm saying is that for the entire Obama administration, Obama has had to deal with a political machine that's not dedicated to compromise or advancing their own political agenda, it's singular goal was to stop him and his agenda at all costs. Meanwhile your globe article is grumbling about how Obama is grumbling and teasing about not being able to get common ground. Our entire political system is designed for compromise, but the current tone from the republican side of the aisle is "My way or go **** yourself!"

 

Bush got the exact same thing from the Dems after 2006. Clinton got it from the Republicans after 1994. Although to both of their credit Clinton and the 104th Congress did manage to get a few thing s accomplished not the least of which was a balanced budget. This acrimony is not new but it is getting worse. But Obama has been the nastiest about it yet and nasty begets nastier.