The Rape of Europe

[obyknven]

Meanwhile in German internets

 

[Woldan]

/Edit: About guns in general- just imagine germans would be carrying guns as well... what do people believe would have happened then? A huge shootout on the streets with real guns instead of firecrackers?

Maybe women would not have been raped if the attackers knew they could be carrying a gun? But they knew the laws and that those women were completely defenseless.

 

Knowing someone could be armed is a very effective deterrent, you don't even have to instigate a shootout or run around guns blazing to have a very powerful defensive effect - simply knowing the potential victims could be armed and could exert lethal force makes dumb people think twice about doing things to their fellow citizen.

 

Ask yourself, if you were a criminal and you had to chose between molesting a female police officer or a female pedestrian - which one would you choose? 

 

 

I wonder if such mass molesting of women could have happened in Texas. 

Edited January 11, 2016 by Woldan

[Sakai]

I wonder if such mass molesting of women could have happened in Texas. 

Lol, bringing up America to argue a pro-gun case might not be the best idea. 

Edited January 11, 2016 by Sakai

[Lexx]

Sorry but I'll doubt it. Someone would have tried, then someone would have pulled a gun and then it escalated even more.

 

The real ones to blame here is the police, imo. Not enough men and not enough presence and too slow in their reaction. They should have knocked down this "shooting people with rockets" and stuff the moment it started.

[Longknife]

 

Streets of Berlin during New Years Eve

 

 

I thought that the germans had banned guns.

 

I am no expert, but aren't this gas pistols? They aren't banned here. Ofc it is usually not the smartest idea to wield them in public.

 

Other than that, I'd like to have them all removed from my country simply because of rocket shooting into people. This counts for everyone who does this. There was at least one report about a 27 years old woman who got her leg blown off this time, just because some idiot thought it would be funny to point a crappy czech battery into a group of people. Yeah, and the throwing and shooting of firecrackers on police and firefighters is really low.

 

/Edit: About guns in general- just imagine germans would be carrying guns as well... what do people believe would have happened then? A huge shootout on the streets with real guns instead of firecrackers? Would that be so much better? I doubt.

 

 

 

If you understand German, the guy being interviewed is basically explaining that from what he gathers this is one group vs. another group, aka there was a "war" going on in the street where it was one side of the street vs the other. The reporter asks if it's serious, he says it's just for fun. The report is more about how these guys were acting rather wreckless, as of course yeah, launching fireworks at each other and the like isn't exactly the height of public safety.

 

The guns were not mentioned, which I found far too odd for a country where you'd never see a pistol brandished or fired on the street like that, so I did a bit of googling, found this: http://www.kotte-zeller.de/Schreckschusspistolen.htm?websale8=kotte-zeller-shop&ci=009890

 

 

These are indeed gas pistols, and that website explicitly advertises them as being a popular item that they tend to sell a lot of during New Years.

 

So in short, the video is some refugees staging a "war" against each other, and the reason it's being reported is because a lot of moms and children found it unnerving while at times their fun got so wild it was a bit of a safety concern (launching fireworks at each other and the like).

 

 

 

As for the article, it's the BKA, our office for responding to crime (the police management you could say), basically stating that they're familiar with the "Taharrush Gamea" practice from having heard of it in other countries (less so in Germany) and are going to do everything to ensure it does not become a problem or regular occurance here. What Taharrush Gamea is, is basically when a group of muslim guys sexually harass or rape a woman in public.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

Knowing someone could be armed is a very effective deterrent, you don't even have to instigate a shootout or run around guns blazing to have a very powerful defensive effect - simply knowing the potential victims could be armed and could exert lethal force makes dumb people think twice about doing things to their fellow citizen.

 

Citation?

[Darkpriest]

Seems that we have even worse cases of manipulation. I will try to gwt a direct link but it seems that during last summer's "we are sthlm" sweden police deliberately hidden facts of sexual assaults by afghan and other immigrant males to avoid giving arguments to Swe anti-immigrants.

 

The article was released recently by Dagens Nyheter.

 

I have no idea what medium that is, but the action of the police is deapicable and unacceptable! It was so bad that thwy even wanted to create seperate sectors for males.and females, yet in rwports there was 0 mention of the incidents.

 

Nice f'kin PC. More of it please.

[Drowsy Emperor]

 

 

Streets of Berlin during New Years Eve

 

 

I thought that the germans had banned guns.

 

I am no expert, but aren't this gas pistols? They aren't banned here. Ofc it is usually not the smartest idea to wield them in public.

 

Other than that, I'd like to have them all removed from my country simply because of rocket shooting into people. This counts for everyone who does this. There was at least one report about a 27 years old woman who got her leg blown off this time, just because some idiot thought it would be funny to point a crappy czech battery into a group of people. Yeah, and the throwing and shooting of firecrackers on police and firefighters is really low.

 

/Edit: About guns in general- just imagine germans would be carrying guns as well... what do people believe would have happened then? A huge shootout on the streets with real guns instead of firecrackers? Would that be so much better? I doubt.

 

 

 

As for the article, it's the BKA, our office for responding to crime (the police management you could say), basically stating that they're familiar with the "Taharrush Gamea" practice from having heard of it in other countries (less so in Germany) and are going to do everything to ensure it does not become a problem or regular occurance here. What Taharrush Gamea is, is basically when a group of muslim guys sexually harass or rape a woman in public.

 

 

Lol, mass sexual harassment for fun is a real thing. This is the sort of thing Goebbels would say and everyone would think its demonisation and propaganda.

 

In sweden too:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2016/01/11/world/europe/ap-eu-sweden-sexual-assaults.html

 

I guess these are going to be written off as far-right propaganda too? 

[Darkpriest]

@Drowsy

 

I wanted to get to the original source, but NY Times is good enough, as it is in English

 

These are source articles i believe:

 

http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/assaults-at-the-stockholm-festival-have-never-been-fully-investigated/

 

http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/questions-and-answers-on-dns-handling-of-events-in-the-kungstradgarden/

[Meshugger]

@Drowsy

 

I wanted to get to the original source, but NY Times is good enough, as it is in English

 

These are source articles i believe:

 

http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/assaults-at-the-stockholm-festival-have-never-been-fully-investigated/

 

http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/questions-and-answers-on-dns-handling-of-events-in-the-kungstradgarden/

 

 

 

This is a sore point, sometimes, we do not dare to say how things really are because we believe it will play into the hands of the Sverigedemokraterna (Sweden Democrats). We have to take responsibility for this within the police, says Police Chief Peter Ågren.

 

So, the police admits that they have done a cover up for political reasons. What's the difference between them and a random milita again? More importantly, why should any swede pay taxes when those safeguarding society are actively working against it?

[Drowsy Emperor]

Its all about clinging to power. Its not that they're concerned that the Swedish Democrats would turn Sweden into Nazi Germany. They wouldn't for a multitude of reasons, the most important of which is that they're not nearly as radical as the media portrays them. I happen to have read every party program for every single Swedish party and they're all remarkably similar. Swedish Democrats are a typical conservative party, in the old sense of the word. Not a revolutionary, dictatorial or militant party by any stretch of the imagination. They flirt with the extreme right, but the leadership are men "of the system", suits. 

 

The real issue is that a victory for the SD would undo the entire ideology and societal fantasy other parties are based upon. And since its already standing on glass legs ( supporting itself by suppressing any dissent on the contentious issue of immigration, which is not really just immigration but an entire world view,  "weltanschauung"  ), once defeated, they know it would be the end of their political careers for a good long time. It would be impossible to "bounce back" from that ideological defeat and the entire current Swedish political crowd would end up jobless.

 

Its like the Soviet Union at the end of its days. The prevailing ideology cannot afford to compromise on any issue because its so frayed and tattered that pulling away a single string would undo it all. And hordes of politicians have become so invested in it that they backed themselves into a corner and can't transition to any other position.

Edited January 11, 2016 by Drowsy Emperor

[Longknife]

 

As for the article, it's the BKA, our office for responding to crime (the police management you could say), basically stating that they're familiar with the "Taharrush Gamea" practice from having heard of it in other countries (less so in Germany) and are going to do everything to ensure it does not become a problem or regular occurance here. What Taharrush Gamea is, is basically when a group of muslim guys sexually harass or rape a woman in public.

 

Lol, mass sexual harassment for fun is a real thing. This is the sort of thing Goebbels would say and everyone would think its demonisation and propaganda.

 

In sweden too:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2016/01/11/world/europe/ap-eu-sweden-sexual-assaults.html

 

I guess these are going to be written off as far-right propaganda too? 

 

 

 

....You...you talking to me?

 

If so I'm very confused, since all I did was translate.

[Drowsy Emperor]

 

 

As for the article, it's the BKA, our office for responding to crime (the police management you could say), basically stating that they're familiar with the "Taharrush Gamea" practice from having heard of it in other countries (less so in Germany) and are going to do everything to ensure it does not become a problem or regular occurance here. What Taharrush Gamea is, is basically when a group of muslim guys sexually harass or rape a woman in public.

 

Lol, mass sexual harassment for fun is a real thing. This is the sort of thing Goebbels would say and everyone would think its demonisation and propaganda.

 

In sweden too:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2016/01/11/world/europe/ap-eu-sweden-sexual-assaults.html

 

I guess these are going to be written off as far-right propaganda too? 

 

 

 

....You...you talking to me?

 

If so I'm very confused, since all I did was translate.

 

 

Nah I was just quoting you and commenting.

[Nonek]

Meanwhile in the Caspian Sea a huge isthmus of land sprang from the waters and licked along the jagged shoreline, now twisted and reshaped into a lustful grin. A black island pupil arose from the Aral Sea, was blinked away by the waves and then returned to cast its lecherous gaze upon the soft, succulent green lands huddled around the Mediterranean. Slowly the Taiga waggled suggestively, as if it were the forested eyebrows of the West Siberian Plains, and the whole mass of Asia pushed itself towards the frail form of maiden Europe.

[obyknven]

Typical German Merkel-supporter.

 

Hungarians continue giggling about Germans.

[BruceVC]

@Drowsy

 

I wanted to get to the original source, but NY Times is good enough, as it is in English

 

These are source articles i believe:

 

http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/assaults-at-the-stockholm-festival-have-never-been-fully-investigated/

 

http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/questions-and-answers-on-dns-handling-of-events-in-the-kungstradgarden/

I have to  be honest I'm not sure really what you guys are getting at  with raising these issues of increased inappropriate behavior from the refugees? I thought we all agreed that due to the social and historical precedence that there would be a small element within the refugees that would commit this type of behavior 

 

But surly  no one is suggesting this is normal conduct for Muslims  from the ME ? I would agree that in certain countries like Pakistan there are real issues with how women get treated but before the war I don't think Syria was a country that was notorious for treating women badly?

[Chilloutman]

 

@Drowsy

 

I wanted to get to the original source, but NY Times is good enough, as it is in English

 

These are source articles i believe:

 

http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/assaults-at-the-stockholm-festival-have-never-been-fully-investigated/

 

http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/questions-and-answers-on-dns-handling-of-events-in-the-kungstradgarden/

I have to  be honest I'm not sure really what you guys are getting at  with raising these issues of increased inappropriate behavior from the refugees? I thought we all agreed that due to the social and historical precedence that there would be a small element within the refugees that would commit this type of behavior 

 

But surly  no one is suggesting this is normal conduct for Muslims  from the ME ? I would agree that in certain countries like Pakistan there are real issues with how women get treated but before the war I don't think Syria was a country that was notorious for treating women badly?

 

Well its only delusion that most of the refugees are Syrians....

[BruceVC]

 

 

@Drowsy

 

I wanted to get to the original source, but NY Times is good enough, as it is in English

 

These are source articles i believe:

 

http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/assaults-at-the-stockholm-festival-have-never-been-fully-investigated/

 

http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/questions-and-answers-on-dns-handling-of-events-in-the-kungstradgarden/

I have to  be honest I'm not sure really what you guys are getting at  with raising these issues of increased inappropriate behavior from the refugees? I thought we all agreed that due to the social and historical precedence that there would be a small element within the refugees that would commit this type of behavior 

 

But surly  no one is suggesting this is normal conduct for Muslims  from the ME ? I would agree that in certain countries like Pakistan there are real issues with how women get treated but before the war I don't think Syria was a country that was notorious for treating women badly?

 

Well its only delusion that most of the refugees are Syrians....

 

Yes but still....what is the concern?  Are you worried that the majority of the refugees will be criminals and rapists?

[Darkpriest]

I'd put Syrians in the "" becuase a lot of those Syrians are probably from other islamic states in the region.

 

So far the only correlation is that the more immigrants from muslim countries the higher rates in the sexual assaults and murders.

Edited January 12, 2016 by Darkpriest

[BruceVC]

I'd put Syrians in the "" becuase a lot of those Syrians are probably from other islamic states in the region.

 

So far the only correlation is that the more immigrants from muslim countries the higher rates in the sexual assaults and murders.

Okay yes I will agree with that, you guys have very low crimes rates as we discussed in the past

 

So I can imagine this increased crime even though not high by my standard is a concern to you....is that what worries you the most? That crime will increase or are you worried about Islamic extremism from within the ranks of the refugees?

[Chilloutman]

Yes but still....what is the concern?  Are you worried that the majority of the refugees will be criminals and rapists?

No, but media/german goverment portrayed immigrants as refugees from war torn Syria (state with reasonable education and quite high culture which can mingle with 'west' culture without much problem) as beneficial for our society and/or at least refugees from war. Where in reality its just mass economic migration from cultures which 'west' can't mingle with as long as there will be at least some people believing in freedom of speech and women equality

 

basically they tell you that all immigrants are Syrian doctors where in fact its much more Eritrean goatherd

[Rosbjerg]

So far the only correlation is that the more immigrants from muslim countries the higher rates in the sexual assaults and murders.

 

As we have historically seen with any mass migration, especially from countries troubled with war and/or famines irregardless of religion or culture. The massive clashes in New York for instance, between European immigrants flooding in in the 19th century.

 

The real failure here was both that these men failed to realize they were in a different country with different morals, failed to deal with their own trauma and 'emasculation' of having to depend on others in a culture that teaches heavy male independence and deciding to take it out on their host country - and a bigger failure from authorities that utterly failed to understand that this was basically bound to happen if these men were allowed to go out unsupervised into a culture they have no understanding off, except by their exposure from mass media. Which as we know, is heavily sexually saturated... In short a complete recipe for disaster.

 

One of the reason it didn't happen here, was because we've essentially locked up any immigrants in barracks, under heavy supervision, until they've received several courses in both our culture and language. And have been lightly cleared and background checked. The way and reason for doing that here however is a bit too draconian for my tastes (and pretty openly racist), but the rationale is not wrong.

 

It is however still important that we do not blame an entire culture for this or take this ****ed experience as proof that we can never coexists. We can easily assimilate immigrants, as long as we understand where and what they come from.

 

edit: and you don't really have to go back that far before you'd see similar situations in western culture. With rape gangs terrorizing London's parks and women travelling alone or in small groups. This type of criminal behavior is a byproduct of a heavily traditional, suppressive and authority dominated culture, that stigmatizes sexuality. The only exception I've seen is Japan and it's surprising that they are as good as suppressing it as they are, of course it bubbles over in popular culture for them, with rape games etc, but that's certainly manageable.

[Rosbjerg]

Double post - but try travelling to Istanbul, Marrakesh, Cairo or some of the progressive metropols of the Muslim world and you can see how the traditonalist authority culture is slowly melting away and women are seen much more as equals, both literally and sexually. Very similar to Europe in the early days of the 20th century.

 

There are small anti-establishment cultures emerging, from punk/rap/young adults movemnt to women rights groups. With all the progressive art and all the clamp downs you'd except too. It's very interesting to witness actually,

[Meshugger]

To put it even more simple:

 

All nations have their own Eloi and Morlocks. The number and how rowdy the Morlocks are might shift a bit, but the main point is that they are a bad bunch and we have laws, norms and code of conduct to keep them in order. Our law abiding, nice and innocent Eloi have told us that importing more Eloi's from other countries will make the host country full of more nice Eloi's who chat about different food recipies, dance moves and interesting festivals. So the great Mother of all Eloi's said that the Eloi's are all welcome.

 

Turns out we got the Morlocks instead. So now we have a different kind of Morlocks behaving very badly in a new way which is different compared to what the our Morlocks were behaving from before and thus, we have instead a bunch of new Morlock problems not experienced before.

 

But our Eloi refuse to believe it and actively try to say that the Morlocks are still Eloi and we are being very bad for mistaking them for being Morlocks; going so far as covering up facts about what the new Morlocks are up to, and blame our Eloi for Morlock behaviour not even conducted by our Morlocks.

 

Many feel that bringing in the new Morlocks during summer and fall was a mistake and should be thrown out. But our Eloi do not like that and think that throwing out someone elses Morlocks makes us Morlocks even if it was our Eloi that started the mess in the first place.

 

This story is still in development so you have to wait a while for the ending.

[BruceVC]

 

Yes but still....what is the concern?  Are you worried that the majority of the refugees will be criminals and rapists?

No, but media/german goverment portrayed immigrants as refugees from war torn Syria (state with reasonable education and quite high culture which can mingle with 'west' culture without much problem) as beneficial for our society and/or at least refugees from war. Where in reality its just mass economic migration from cultures which 'west' can't mingle with as long as there will be at least some people believing in freedom of speech and women equality

 

basically they tell you that all immigrants are Syrian doctors where in fact its much more Eritrean goatherd

 

I imagine there will be some periods where the adjustment will create challengers. And by adjustment I mean the integration of the refugees into European culture.Lets be honest, some of them won't be able to integrate...but I suspect that will be maximum 5 % 

 

The vast majority will become productive citizens paying taxes once employed...but yes if they don't get jobs that will become an issue 

 

 

So far the only correlation is that the more immigrants from muslim countries the higher rates in the sexual assaults and murders.

 

As we have historically seen with any mass migration, especially from countries troubled with war and/or famines irregardless of religion or culture. The massive clashes in New York for instance, between European immigrants flooding in in the 19th century.

 

The real failure here was both that these men failed to realize they were in a different country with different morals, failed to deal with their own trauma and 'emasculation' of having to depend on others in a culture that teaches heavy male independence and deciding to take it out on their host country - and a bigger failure from authorities that utterly failed to understand that this was basically bound to happen if these men were allowed to go out unsupervised into a culture they have no understanding off, except by their exposure from mass media. Which as we know, is heavily sexually saturated... In short a complete recipe for disaster.

 

One of the reason it didn't happen here, was because we've essentially locked up any immigrants in barracks, under heavy supervision, until they've received several courses in both our culture and language. And have been lightly cleared and background checked. The way and reason for doing that here however is a bit too draconian for my tastes (and pretty openly racist), but the rationale is not wrong.

 

It is however still important that we do not blame an entire culture for this or take this ****ed experience as proof that we can never coexists. We can easily assimilate immigrants, as long as we understand where and what they come from.

 

edit: and you don't really have to go back that far before you'd see similar situations in western culture. With rape gangs terrorizing London's parks and women travelling alone or in small groups. This type of criminal behavior is a byproduct of a heavily traditional, suppressive and authority dominated culture, that stigmatizes sexuality. The only exception I've seen is Japan and it's surprising that they are as good as suppressing it as they are, of course it bubbles over in popular culture for them, with rape games etc, but that's certainly manageable.

 

You make some good points Ros, I respect your positive attitude

 

The only advice I would give you is dont see this whole integration based on whether the refugees will commit any crime. Because I guarantee you even in Denmark there will be the odd issue of some refugee doing something illegal. And I don't want you to become jaded like many of our other friends on this forum 

 

I just hope the majority of refugees find work and can contribute to the overall society they live in....because a future of social grants isn't going to make them very popular