Ok, let's settle it once and for all: ROMANCES.

[Cantousent]

Annah was boring while Fall From Grace was exciting? You're Psychotic. Truly barmy freakin' MAD!

[Volourn]

MADly in love with FFG, that is.

[Meshugger]

Eh, let me get this straight. In PS:T, your character only gets some small fragments that might indicate that there's a romance?

[Cantousent]

Well, yeah. I guess that would be fair to say. Maybe a little more than that, but it's definitely backseat to the rest of the story.

[Volourn]

And, in PST's case that's a good thing

[Vyperhand]

AFA the Bastila/Revan Romance, it was actually done very well, (except the ending of the game completely ignoring it, which just about ruins the rest) if you take it in its proper context.

1) The KOTOR story took weeks or months of "real-time" presented in 25-40 hours of game time. Much down-time available therefor long conversations and games and friendship while traversing hyperspace.

 

2) The character was portrayed true to her nature: brash, passionate and "quick to get involved"

 

3) They were trying to illustrate the dynamic of a Lifebond without making it so central the game was ruined without it. That's tough by any standards.

 

With all that, I sure haven't played a game with an optional romance done better or more believably than that one.

 

Yes, it could have still been better with a few simple additions. If you go out of your way to save the love interest in combat when overwhelmed, getting a thank you and bonus "romance points" would have been very nice. Perhaps the ability to buy the love interest presents as a way of also gaining "romance points" for example. Spend some of those piles of creds on nice jewelry or somesuch? And some sort of indicator/meter when talking how well you're doing, like a colored heart at the beginning of personal or cut-scene dialogs? Maybe take a lesson from the old Harvest Moon series there? Or am I just crazy? I don't think so, considering the percentage leaning in favor of romance, that the more developed the romance and engine for it are, the better.

[/pseudo-rant]

 

um... thanks for listening?

[Drakron]

Eh, let me get this straight. In PS:T, your character only gets some small fragments that might indicate that there's a romance?

With Fall-From-Grace, yes and even after all this time we cannot be sure of it being a romance or not.

 

Annah was diferent, there is definitly a romance there and she stays with TNO because of that, even to her death.

 

Also there are others, Ravel and Deionarra that love TNO and even if not joinable NPCs their love drives the story and its as intregal part of the game as everything else.

 

Of course that TNO is not forced to take the romances, Deionarra did love TNO but his previous incarnation just used her ... he had no love for her and used her feelings for his own gains, nothing stops your from trying the same angle with Annah.

[Cantousent]

um... thanks for listening?

 

*tip of the hat

 

It's not all that hard to listen.

 

It's true. Since we're simply going to have romances in our games, no one can really argue with the idea that the romances should be well done. What the definition of a "well done" romance is remains a matter for debate.

 

Drakron: Yep, there was a lot of romance swirling around PS:T. It wasn't in your face most of the time, but it was there.

[Meshugger]

Eh, let me get this straight. In PS:T, your character only gets some small fragments that might indicate that there's a romance?

With Fall-From-Grace, yes and even after all this time we cannot be sure of it being a romance or not.

 

Annah was diferent, there is definitly a romance there and she stays with TNO because of that, even to her death.

 

Also there are others, Ravel and Deionarra that love TNO and even if not joinable NPCs their love drives the story and its as intregal part of the game as everything else.

 

Of course that TNO is not forced to take the romances, Deionarra did love TNO but his previous incarnation just used her ... he had no love for her and used her feelings for his own gains, nothing stops your from trying the same angle with Annah.

To put it short then, it was subtle. I just kept wondering why so many like it in the first place.

[nightcleaver]

I liked the romance in PS: T just fine. It all went into the story is what I liked, which didn't really happen in KOTOR. There's Carth-Leviathan, sure, but you get the EXACT same scene with SLIGHTLY different undercurrents to the same conversation later. The only integration into the plot the Bastila romance has is at the very end, or if you get 1/1 million lucky, at the temple - even if THAT one happens, though, it's still pretty minor. I couldn't really pinpoint what it is that's missing in the KOTOR romance, I just know the Carth half proposal thing seemed really out of place to me. The more intimate conversations with Bastila, as self-imposed as she is, could have actually had some intimate undercurrents, you know? Nothing really seemed intimate or even FORCED to avoid intimacy until the kiss/starforge scenes. No, I couldn't say how you would change that - maybe it's just the voice acting. Then again, before that there was only the parents/past conversation that was faintly intimate. No way to know what the Dev time/limitations were, but those were problems as I saw it.

 

The way I see it, over all: the Carth romance was awkwardly to the side, the Bastila romance was too front and center.

[Drakron]

Well because romances in games rarely are suble, they throw in a NPC that reaks of "romance option" that its almost impossible to miss.

 

Worst is thet thrown a clich

[Vyperhand]

The only integration into the plot the Bastila romance has is at the very end, or if you get 1/1 million lucky, at the temple - even if THAT one happens, though, it's still pretty minor.

Actually, that's a bug in the game... to get it 100% of the time, don't talk about what happened between you after the fade-to-black screen. If you do, a bug partially bombs out the romance plot.

 

I'll get back on topic now, I swear.

[Ivan the Terrible]

I even take Anomen over Carth.

Bite your tongue. NOTHING tops Anomen for being a misguided romance; how anyone at Bioware thought people would find that tight-ass attractive is beyond me.

[Drakron]

Bite your tongue. NOTHING tops Anomen for being a misguided romance; how anyone at Bioware thought people would find that tight-ass attractive is beyond me.

Anomen is damaged goods as well, the diference is that Anomen tries to act as he think he sould act as a knight and Carth is just "untrusting".

 

Anomen requires we look deep because its not on the surface withi is the major diference of Carth and Anomen, in Carth case its everything on the surface, if you try to see Carth beyond what he shows there is nothing there as Anomen hides a lot and to know his past (as so his motivation) we must do his "knighthood" subquest and one way or another we can mold Anomen future.

 

As a NPC he is clearly superior to Carth, Carth is a clich

[Vyperhand]

Is it strange to anyone else that as lopsided as this poll was that there wasn't more (any?) developer commentary?

[Darque]

They're probably afraid to comment.

 

Given how BIG an issue Romances seem to be, I can't say I blame them. Especially since everything they say will be looked under a microscope thriceover and interpreted a dozen ways.

[Volourn]

"Especially since everything they say will be looked under a microscope thriceover and interpreted a dozen ways."

 

 

You exaggerate at the LOW end. :D

[Darque]

I was trying to be tactful

[Volourn]

Not in my vocabulary.

[Darque]

:D

[Cantousent]

Not in my vocabulary.

Aw, come on, Vol. You're the spirit of tact and diplomacy.

[Volourn]

That post is the Spirit of Sarcasm. :D

[Darque]

You know you love the attention

[Volourn]

:ph34r:

[Darth Jebus]

If done badly, they make you cringe.

 

Any Star Wars romance done properly should make you cringe. Four words for you: Attack of the Clones. <_<