Single-target vs. AoE DPS builds...

[vertigofm]

Hi,

I'm new to this game.  I prefer melee builds in these games and noticed that almost every build- barbarians and paladins- seems to stress AoE damage.  They all really push intelligence for that reason.  

Is AoE a core function of this game?  In playing all the Baldur's Gate games I rarely used AoE spells or attacks....  


Just trying to see if AoE is pretty much the way you have to go to be effective, or if many people play single-target DPS builds?



Thanks,



Frank

[AndreaColombo]

It depends on many things.

 

Barbarian builds focus on AoE because that's a Barbarian's thing in this game (they get Carnage at level one and deal AoE damage with melee attacks automatically.)

 

If you are playing at higher difficulty settings, and particularly on Path of the Damned, AoE is pretty handy as you'll face many large mobs that would otherwise take a long time to defeat.

 

That said, single-target DPS is still very much a thing in this game and my every main character focuses exactly on that. So it mostly comes down to play style and personal preference, in the end.

[Boeroer]

I once played a party of six rogues (=greatest single target damage dealers) - turned out to be doable, but veeery tedious. I would always say that not AoE damage, but AoE cround control is the key to an easy playthrough. But in general, it's the mix and the synergies that count. And good tactics of course. 

[mosspit]

Ideally you will want a bit of both.

 

Having only AoE dmg will make boss encounter slow as you can't burst them fast or enemy casters wind up staying alive for longer than they should. That's where single target dps shines - taking down priority targets fast.

 

AoE makes sense as there are alot of trash encounters in the game. And also there are boss encounters which have lots of adds added so thinning down the numbers fast is desirable. 

[Tigranes]

Either way you can easily be a godly death-dealer, so don't over-worry before you start playing. Rogues will work well with your preferences.

[PrimeJunta]

Yeah, what @Boeroer said. Crowd control is king, especially at harder difficulties. If you've got your CC game down, you'll be able to debuff and disable even the toughest enemies to the point that middling point-damage will get the job done.

 

I've played a bit with this theory, and find that -- roughly speaking -- there's a linear relationship between ease and your crowd control potential. I tried an all-caster party (druid x 2, wizard x 2, cipher, priest), and it got... really easy. You can layer on six debuffs to open with, and then four AoE direct-damage spells, which makes most fights ... really short. That only burns up two spells each on your Vancian casters, which means even your late Chapter 1 party is good for three or four tough fights before needing a rest -- and in practice it's much more, as your cipher doesn't run out of casts, and most fights are so easy you only need to use one each of the wiz and druid. (PotD difficulty.)

[brindle88]

I once played a party of six rogues (=greatest single target damage dealers) - turned out to be doable, but veeery tedious. I would always say that not AoE damage, but AoE cround control is the key to an easy playthrough. But in general, it's the mix and the synergies that count. And good tactics of course.

 

You struggled with 6 rogues ?

 

I can beat the game with one rogue on POTD.

 

Misleading post.

[brindle88]

Hi,

I'm new to this game. I prefer melee builds in these games and noticed that almost every build- barbarians and paladins- seems to stress AoE damage. They all really push intelligence for that reason.

Is AoE a core function of this game? In playing all the Baldur's Gate games I rarely used AoE spells or attacks....

Just trying to see if AoE is pretty much the way you have to go to be effective, or if many people play single-target DPS builds?

Thanks,

Frank

If your new to the game your going to have to get your head around the builds and mechanics.

 

Coming onto this forum and asking questions can be helpful, though a lot of the users here will just give you answers that relate to what they like best.

 

For example if you made a post on this forum titled " what is the most powerful class " you will get various and contradicting responses from users saying that basically every class is the most powerful class. They will just say the class they like best.

 

To answer your op: generally melee classes don't focus on AOE. You have suggested that barbarians and paladins do, paladins get that aoe flame ability quite late in the game that is very powerful though they are still a single target dps dealer. Barbarians have carnage which applies secondary damage to mobs. On POTD most creatures have a min DR of 12 that will make the carnage worthless. People on here may tell you otherwise because they like barbarians but I have tried them about 10 times and I can't make them work on POTD.

Edited December 19, 2015 by brindle88

[rheingold]

@brindle. Please read before commenting. Boeroer did not say he struggled just that it was tedious, presumably because of the micromanaging involved which with 6 rogues is considerably more than with one....

 

Regarding which classes are most powerful, well while there are some overpowered builds, Obs have done a far better job than the good old ie games. There is no equivalent of the good old Kensai/Mage. And all of the classes can be overpowered built properly. Just look at the build forum.

[why]

I'm with Rheingold. There is no class that cannot succeed in Pillars. The party makes the most difference. Moreover, from what I've seen, just about any build can win in a single player game no matter what the class. Getting into vendetta's regarding which class is over powered or not is silly. If you think about what you're doing, every build can win in a single player main character build.

 

Sorry, a little bit slow tonight, but I still stand by my position. I've made plenty of sub standard PC buids that have managed to muddle through just fine.

Edited December 19, 2015 by why

[brindle88]

@brindle. Please read before commenting. Boeroer did not say he struggled just that it was tedious, presumably because of the micromanaging involved which with 6 rogues is considerably more than with one....

Regarding which classes are most powerful, well while there are some overpowered builds, Obs have done a far better job than the good old ie games. There is no equivalent of the good old Kensai/Mage. And all of the classes can be overpowered built properly. Just look at the build forum.

I'm sorry I didn't no that I had to speak slowly so you can understand.

[Zenbane]

I'm sorry I didn't no that I had to speak slowly so you can understand.

 

 

He understands perfectly fine because he knows the difference between the words "tedious" and "difficult" whereas you seem to think that they are synonymous. I agree that you should speak slowly, but only because if you go slow enough you might catch your errors before hitting the reply button.

 

In this case, Boerer clearly said that the task was 'tedious' which means monotonous; and often implies simplicity in repetition. How you managed to confuse that with "difficult" is (ironically) quite tedious, in the 'slow or dull' aspect of its definition.

[brindle88]

 

I'm sorry I didn't no that I had to speak slowly so you can understand.

 

 

 

He understands perfectly fine because he knows the difference between the words "tedious" and "difficult" whereas you seem to think that they are synonymous. I agree that you should speak slowly, but only because if you go slow enough you might catch your errors before hitting the reply button.

 

In this case, Boerer clearly said that the task was 'tedious' which means monotonous; and often implies simplicity in repetition. How you managed to confuse that with "difficult" is (ironically) quite tedious, in the 'slow or dull' aspect of its definition.

Well where all glad you sorted that out for us. Are you sure you don't want to write a few more hundred words? Your last explanation was a bit short.

[Livegood118]

Woe unto those who post in a brindle thread

[Boeroer]

Seriously - what's wrong with the brindle? You enter a thread, start provoking forum members left and right and when people backfire you'll say they are bitchy.

 

If you can't get a barbarian to work in PoTD (after ten times trying) it says more about you than it says something about the barb.

 

I don't have favourite classes by the way. I used all of them in several playthroughs (>1500h playtime) and they all can be great or lame.

[Zenbane]

If you can't get a barbarian to work in PoTD (after ten times trying) it says more about you than it says something about the barb.

 

 

lmao, it almost sounds like you're a Marriage Councilor who's tired of dealing with a dysfunctional couple

[Torm51]

One thing he said is right.  Paladin has ZERO AEO damage capability until you get take Sacred Immolation late in the game (if you do...I know you should but I know some paladins with dumped INT builds don't).

[Boeroer]

I didn't!

 

Still a good char.

[JerekKruger]

Seriously - what's wrong with the brindle?

 

Honestly I think it's best not to ask, or even engage directly. 

[Abbzug]

 

Seriously - what's wrong with the brindle?

 

Honestly I think it's best not to ask, or even engage directly. 

 

 

Exactly. Don't negotiate with terrorists.

[gkathellar]

 

 

Seriously - what's wrong with the brindle?

 

Honestly I think it's best not to ask, or even engage directly. 

 

 

Exactly. Do Not Feed the Troll.

 

FTFY

[PrimeJunta]

In re barbs, not my fave class either but they definitely do work. I've built several that are powerful enough. I just find playing them to be a bit... what's the word... tedious: basically you're firing the same two per-encounter abilities in the same order every time. That's dull. Same reason I'm a bit unenthusiastic about the cipher.

To go on a bit of a tangent, what don't I find dull?
 

1. The low-maintenance pawn. A fighter can be built this way: you position him, and he does his thing, while you focus on the active characters.
2. The mobility-based striker. You play this one by actively positioning him, giving him a target, and then moving again if he gets targeted.
3. The caster with the big repertoire. You pick the right tool for the job, and there are enough different tools and jobs that you end up using lots of different ones in different combinations.

Most of the Pillars classes fall into these categories when built "to type." Fighters, rangers, and paladins are mostly type 1's (pallies with a touch of type 3), rogues and monks are type 2's (monks with a touch of type 3), wizards, druids, and priests are type 3's. The barb, cipher, and chanter aren't: they have a quite a few abilities you need to trigger, but you end up triggering mostly the same ones in the same order in every fight. 

 

TBH I haven't played with the AI scripts in 2.03 so it's possible that could be automated, which would put them into the type 1 category.

[KDubya]

Just wanted to throw out there that Monks have pretty good AoE damage from Torment's Reach and from Flagellant's Path.

 

Torment's is a cone shaped AoE that adds +50% crushing damage as a full attack. If you are dual wielding it basically does 300% damage ( your right hand +50% and your left hand +50%). It also debuffs might by -2. Unlike Carnage their is not any penalty to attack or reduced damage in the AoE.

 

Flagellant's Path is a line AoE attack with like 10 meter range (I think, might be 8 meters), 2 meter width and a defense debuff to all targets.

 

Instead of a squishy barbarian you can go with a studly Monk and have your AoE melee damager.

[Boeroer]

Good thing about carbage though: on hit/crit effects and spellchances on weapons work with it. Thinks like disorieting, prone, stun etc. all work as AoE with a barb. Torment's Reach doesn't do that (it's still a great ability).

[Yosharian]

Hi,

 

I'm new to this game.  I prefer melee builds in these games and noticed that almost every build- barbarians and paladins- seems to stress AoE damage.  They all really push intelligence for that reason.  

 

Is AoE a core function of this game?  In playing all the Baldur's Gate games I rarely used AoE spells or attacks....  

 

 

Just trying to see if AoE is pretty much the way you have to go to be effective, or if many people play single-target DPS builds?

 

 

 

Thanks,

 

 

 

Frank

My tip to you is: don't play a Barbarian.