Dark souls 3

[Fenixp]

Oh I absolutely get that, Vaeliorin, we all have different requirements of games, especially RPGs. FROM software is and always was primarily concerned with gameplay tho, and the thing with realistic levels is that they tend to be repetitive and don't present new challenges often enough. At some point, you need to make a choice - either you go realistic route or purely gameplay route. Personally, I was for instance very concerned when Bethesda decided to make a switch from believable dungeons present in Morrowind to very linear and gamey dungeons in Oblivion (and I was right to be concerned as it's even worse in Skyrim), but those games are primarily concerned with constructing believable worlds.

 

In today world when we mentioned something obvious, people still demand an evidence...

You're damn right I demand evidence when you say level design is bad in a game which is widely praised by level designers for having fantastic level design. You know, level designers? Those people who design videogames for a living?

 

i. They put in invisible path blocker at narrow path such in The Great Hollow and Blighttown, you walk upon it and fall with no reason. You must walk slow bit by bit on it to get past, or jump over if you already know the spot

Yes, they're designed in order for you to walk slowly on them. That's the point. You're calling it bad level design for it doing precisely what it's supposed to.

 

ii. It's a third person view game but they limit your view bbecause most area iare small and the enemy is too big, you often find out your view blocked by things and the enemy itself

? I have no idea what are you trying to say.

 

iii. most areas force you to change your weapon because of your weapon will hit walls, even though your weapon logically can give thrust attack but the game say otherwise, broadsword cannot thrust but long sword can, so you must change from broadsword to longsword in those areas

Yes. That's not bad level design, that's deliberate. Weapons were specifically designed in such a way that they collide like this with walls in order for you to be forced into changing weapons and using different tactics in different areas in order to make gameplay more diverse.

 

iv. weapon attacks will make you move a bit mostly, that could lead you to fall in narrow path, unless you change your weapon to range or use magic you will get problem and often causing death when fighting enemies at those area such as in Blightown levels

Yes, that's very deliberate. You need to be aware of your surroundings at all times and be careful to not attack at wrong moments as to not fall. I have fallen once from attacking. Yes, once. Then I learned that's a thing which can happen, figured out how much do attacks of my weapons make me step forward, and used these attacks accordingly. You're right, the game actually forces you to use your brain before pressing the attack button - you need to have enough space so your weapon doesn't collide with a wall and so you don't step off a ledge. And you know what I started doing after figuring out these attacks work in such a way that you can fall off? I started luring more difficult enemies to the ledges and I made them fall one by one, killing them. That's why this mechanic is there. Also, that has nothing to do with level design.

 

v. some enemies just throw you off the area giving instant death such as Iron Golem, and most enemies have a very big hit box making you cannot escape, they often placed at small areas

First of all, if you're talking about Taurus Demon, you can actually roll between his legs. And yes, some enemies can kill you instantly if you're not careful. Did you know you can kill Iron Golem instantly by making him fall?

 

vi. fire breathing dragon will burn the whole area, the only way is get out from it's area effect if you can, blocking done nothing because it will push you and breaking your poise

Do you know why does the dragon knock you down? It knocks you down because the breathing attack does such an insane amount of damage that it would kill you instantly, while knocking you down gives you small time of invulnerability. They literally made the breath attack knock you down in order for the bridge with the dragon to be fair and not instantly kill you. Meanwhile, there are about 3 places on that very bridge which shield you from the flames completely. Not a level design problem.

 

vii. some enemis can jump in blink off screen and when they do that your attack missed, and if you lock on them in narrow path it will make you fall because your attack following them such as in the catacombs

Which is why you don't use weapons that make you step forward too much in catacombs. When you attack with a spear and your shield raised at the same time, you don't step forward at all. Alternatively, you make sure to never attack from side of a ledge. But yes, so far, this is the only point where you're right - funnily enough it's not a problem of level design, it's a problem of how your attacks home on enemies who are no longer on screen.

 

viii. the catacomb is pitch dark and have ledges, the only way is to find light source, using magic or items giving light, if using lantern you must sacrifice your defense while enemies in that areas can ravage you in tight dark area like those giant dog skeletons, they can jump offscreen too

I mean... Yes? Are you just whining that the game is difficult or what?

 

ix. those giant skeletons can simply kick you of ledges

You can kick them off ledges. Not a level design concern.

 

Your entire post was essentially filled with "I can't play the game well enough, it's bad!", some personal concerns and then a bunch of things which are not related to level design at all, not to mention half of your complaints coming from you being unable to adjust to your environment and the other half coming from the fact that you can do the same things as non-boss enemies in the game. So... Yeah, again, I suggest you don't try to pass as a fact something you can't at all speak about with at least a little bit of actual knowledge. There are also so many actual issues with the game's level design (which doesn't make the level design bad, it just makes it not perfect) and you have not managed to pinpoint a single one.

Edited December 5, 2015 by Fenixp

[Qistina]

i. what? The path are CLEAR but they put in invisible path blocker making you fall on a straight clear path, there is no excuse, it is simply cheap dificulty

 

ii. Gaping dragon and so many other enemies will block your view if you play with camera angle, you cannot see what your character is doing because they took the whole screen showing their butt

 

iii. it is a bad design forcing you to change your prefered play style just to fit the level design. What character creation and customization if for again?

 

iv. be aware of surrounding is not an issue, your character fall because you can't control it's movement, you can't cancel attacks, you fall because of that. They know it and they take advantage of it and call it "dificulty"

 

v. enemies that can give instant death is cheap enemy, they are not dificult but cheap. Yeah why not make all enemies can give instant death you can't do anything about when it happen.

 

vi. There is no reason dragon breath is like a hurricane or tonado attack that knock you down wearing heavy armor and heavy shield. The one at the bridge continously do that at very tight space. All you need is to exploit. That's what the game is about, exploit.

 

vii. see, why i want to use spear if i create a sword master? Why i want to use a sword if i am a magic user?

 

viii. The game is not difficult at all for me, it only appear to be difficult with fake difficulties.

 

ix. there are more than one, even if you block them, their just make you fall of ledges.

 

The game is all about you memorize it, you depend on your metagame to defeat the game. That's what runners do, they beat the game in 1 hour because they have memorize and run past everything.

 

So it is a perfect level design in your opinion when runners can just ignore everything and win the game in 1 hour?

[Fenixp]

All right, just watched the DS3 gameplay video. It looks a lot slower than Bloodborne which is a good thing since all Souls games are. Other than that, it looks pretty good. I'll reserve judgement until I actually see the full game, I'm curious what kind of improvements will the devs bring to the formula.

 

viii. The game is not difficult at all for me, it only appear to be difficult with fake difficulties.

By your own admission you're not able to look at attack animations and only use them when they don't get you killed, you're unable to change weapons in order to accomodate for various situations, you're unable to remain mobile and keep track of your surroundings in order to not fall off a ledge, you're unable to see one of the most telegraphed attacks in the game (Iron Golem and his swooping attack where he essentially gives you enough time to run around him 3 times before he actually executes it), you're unable to play the game without using exploits (which, by the way, were added to the game deliberately in order to make it easier for players who can't handle it) and you're unable to properly fight without a shield in order to get light(which you also can get around using a helmet that you can get). It's quite clearly difficult for you.

 

So it is a perfect level design in your opinion when runners can just ignore everything and win the game in 1 hour?

I just said the level design is not perfect, didn't I? Yeah, I'm pretty sure I did. Also, you can finish Morrowind in 17 minutes or so and it's one of my favourite games of all time. And yes, it's good level design when it allows for various approaches, what's on earth wrong with that now? Edited December 5, 2015 by Fenixp

[Mamoulian War]

Capra demon and small area is designed to intentionally troll you (Bed of Chaos also). But once I figure it out I can beat him with zweihander.

Capra Demon was the reason, why I stopped to play DS (

 

I played as pyromancer and was unable to stay alive in the room more than 5 seconds... after few hours, I just quit the game for good...

 

I had very close to Demon's Souls platinum, and not a single boss on NG+++ were so annoying and depressing for me than this one :-/

[Qistina]

All right, just watched the DS3 gameplay video. It looks a lot slower than Bloodborne which is a good thing since all Souls games are. Other than that, it looks pretty good. I'll reserve judgement until I actually see the full game, I'm curious what kind of improvements will the devs bring to the formula.

 

viii. The game is not difficult at all for me, it only appear to be difficult with fake difficulties.

By your own admission you're not able to look at attack animations and only use them when they don't get you killed, you're unable to change weapons in order to accomodate for various situations, you're unable to remain mobile and keep track of your surroundings in order to not fall off a ledge, you're unable to see one of the most telegraphed attacks in the game (Iron Golem and his swooping attack where he essentially gives you enough time to run around him 3 times before he actually executes it), you're unable to play the game without using exploits (which, by the way, were added to the game deliberately in order to make it easier for players who can't handle it) and you're unable to properly fight without a shield in order to get light(which you also can get around using a helmet that you can get). It's quite clearly difficult for you.

 

So it is a perfect level design in your opinion when runners can just ignore everything and win the game in 1 hour?

I just said the level design is not perfect, didn't I? Yeah, I'm pretty sure I did. Also, you can finish Morrowind in 17 minutes or so and it's one of my favourite games of all time. And yes, it's good level design when it allows for various approaches, what's on earth wrong with that now?

 

 

 

What i mean is Dark Souls 1 only need meta game to survive, you don't really need skills to play, you don't get better it is just you know and you survive because of you know. You only found it is dificult out of ignorance about the game, as soon as you already know what is there, you can simply passed and exploit.

 

You will NEVER fail, because you die and live again, so eventually you will success. All enemies never move around, they are exactly where they are everytime you live again and they are fixed. meaning if you upgrade your weapon or level up a bit, those enemies you thought hard are not hard at all, you kill them in one hit

 

Let say you are magic user using magic weapon, then you find out your magic deal less damage and you die, then you know that enemy you fight have high resistence to magic, then you change your weapon, using upgraded physical damage weapon, and using magic that give physical damage, you kill that enemy easily. Not because you are good, it just because you know the enemy is high magic resistence, that's all.

 

The rest of things that being thought dificult are not dificult, it is just the devs exploiting your ignorance of the game and exploiting game-mechanic. They are using the same formula in Dark Souls 2 and they add more enemies on each areas. Before there was one boss level enemy with two minnions in an area, now they add two or three boss level enemies with minions in an area...for the sake to make it look hard...

 

I strongly believe Dark Souls 3 will not get any better other than visual...yes i like the visual

Edited December 5, 2015 by Qistina

[Lexx]

 

Capra demon and small area is designed to intentionally troll you (Bed of Chaos also). But once I figure it out I can beat him with zweihander.

Capra Demon was the reason, why I stopped to play DS (

 

I played as pyromancer and was unable to stay alive in the room more than 5 seconds... after few hours, I just quit the game for good...

 

I had very close to Demon's Souls platinum, and not a single boss on NG+++ were so annoying and depressing for me than this one :-/

 

I actually never played DS1 that far (burned out on many hours of playing DS2), but I think I've heard you can beat him with throwing firebombs into the arena without actually being in the arena?

[pmp10]

 

 

Capra demon and small area is designed to intentionally troll you (Bed of Chaos also). But once I figure it out I can beat him with zweihander.

Capra Demon was the reason, why I stopped to play DS (

 

I played as pyromancer and was unable to stay alive in the room more than 5 seconds... after few hours, I just quit the game for good...

 

I had very close to Demon's Souls platinum, and not a single boss on NG+++ were so annoying and depressing for me than this one :-/

 

I actually never played DS1 that far (burned out on many hours of playing DS2), but I think I've heard you can beat him with throwing firebombs into the arena without actually being in the arena?

 

There is a small ledge in the back of area that sometimes allows attacking without being hit.

Any other game would class that as a exploit.

[Bartimaeus]

Capra Demon sucks. Well, Capra Demon himself is fine: it's those stupid unpredictable dogs that'll screw you over a few dozen times in a row because they move weird and act differently every time you're in. Would not recommend on NG7 at SL1.

[Vaeliorin]

 

 

Capra demon and small area is designed to intentionally troll you (Bed of Chaos also). But once I figure it out I can beat him with zweihander.

Capra Demon was the reason, why I stopped to play DS (I played as pyromancer and was unable to stay alive in the room more than 5 seconds... after few hours, I just quit the game for good...I had very close to Demon's Souls platinum, and not a single boss on NG+++ were so annoying and depressing for me than this one :-/

I actually never played DS1 that far (burned out on many hours of playing DS2), but I think I've heard you can beat him with throwing firebombs into the arena without actually being in the arena?

You can kill him with dung pies or whatever they're called, throwing them up over the wall before ever going through the fog gate. Seems really cheesy to me, so I've never done it, but I know it's possible. Probably could do it with firebombs, but I've never seen that.

[Majek]

I actually never played DS1 that far (burned out on many hours of playing DS2), but I think I've heard you can beat him with throwing firebombs into the arena without actually being in the arena?

 

Well DS2 has it's own variation, if you don't chicken out and kills everything from above. So if you can deal with that, you could have easily beaten Capra. Besides, it was tuned down after a few months.

 

 

Capra Demon was the reason, why I stopped to play DS (

 

I played as pyromancer and was unable to stay alive in the room more than 5 seconds... after few hours, I just quit the game for good...

 

I had very close to Demon's Souls platinum, and not a single boss on NG+++ were so annoying and depressing for me than this one :-/

 

This doesn't make any sense to me.  You could probably kill Vanguard demon in DS prologue so why not Capra? It's all about dodging anyway. Or it was in the first few months. AFter that you just ran in and blew everything to pieces.

[Mamoulian War]

I bought the game right at the beginning, the dogs always shred me to pieces before I was able to do anything. Pyromancer has only 8 charges of some flaming stuff. The dogs just owned me before I was able to do anything with the charges :-/

[Qistina]

Yes that's the thing about it, not balanced...

 

Sorcerors can buy a lot of magic early on, maybe not the first time playing, but at the second or later surely players know there is a sorceror below Firelink Shrine in New Londo where you can but a lot of magic making early game is like cutting butter. The low level magic have 30 charges, and you can stack with more, this is enough to one shot everything at Undead Burg and Undead Parish. it takes two or three shots to kill the Black Knight

 

But choosing a Pyromancer will forced you to play melee because the only way to buy more Pyromacy spells is by saving a guy who got trapped by barrels in the Depth...he's a Pyromancer master and he got trapped by barrels and not able to beat the two giant female cooks while you can...logic? Pyromancer only have 8 charges and it is a very long way before can buy more. In order to get there is by getting a key to the basement and fight Capra Demon, i don't remember if Master Key can open the door.

 

Cleric and Knight also have no problem getting miracles so early in the game, get more healings.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Qistina

[Mamoulian War]

Well, looks like I have chosen wrong class As soon as I finish Tales of Graces f, I will decide, if the game will deserve second chance from me

[Qistina]

If you plan to play as Sorcerer and want to buy sorceries early on at New Londo, make sure you farm first at the prison, they are not cheap

 

Playing as Sorcerer does make things easy.....

[Mamoulian War]

Well, I really liked the Pyromancer, just the 8 charges was for me not enough... and I did not knew how to properly allocate stats Any hints from experience, what stats are best to powerup for Pyromancer?

[Qistina]

Well Pyromancer is okay, you have no stats related to Pyromancy, you only need to upgrade your flame at your hand, you can do this by saving that Pyromancer master first, he can upgrade it for you and sell you spells. In the mean time before saving him, you can allocate any stats you want...i suggest increase your Vitality, Attunement and Endurance...because you need to melee in a long way. By means you can make your Pyromancer into anything but it will be costly, you need to spend more souls for that.

 

if you want to be a strict Pyromancer then the only important stats are the 3 stats i mentioned above. But mind you that there are a lot of enemies who are fire resist. To upgrade your flame is not cheap. After you reach level 10 flame there is another Pyromancer master will show up in Blighttown swamp, she sell you more spells and can upgrade your flame furthermore into ascended flame, the visual look  similar however.

 

If you want an all fire themed character, upgrde your weapon into fire and chaos weapons, these weapons will not level with stats but by upgrading them, there is a blacksmith in the Catacomb can do that, but you must find embers to upgrade further.

 

Oh i forgot, if you join Chaos Servant and rise in rank by giving Humanities you will get two special Pyromancy spells from the The Fair (Spider) Lady depends on your rank

 

And there are a lot of spells you can found in your travel...

Edited December 7, 2015 by Qistina

[Mamoulian War]

Thank you, that will help I will try it again maybe during the Christmas Holiday

[Qistina]

Remember that you can stack same spells, so you need a lot of attunement points, 50 is the maximum give you 10 slots, they do not increase progressively however, meaning from 16 will give you 4 slots, but 19 will give you the next and then 23, 28, 34 and so on up to 50 points giving the max 10 slots

 

Some powerful spells will take up 2 slots

Edited December 7, 2015 by Qistina

[Cyseal]

This boss reminds me on Bed of chaos.

[Fenixp]

This boss reminds me on Bed of chaos.

You're saying it like that's a good thing :-P

[Cyseal]

Well, Bed of chaos is one of the most unique bosses ever. Altough, I have headscratches every time I get there.

But, the boss from footage is also a ancient tree, almost like an ent.

Bed of chaos is actually a witch inside the tree,so  this DS3 boss reminded me pf it because of a witch-like hand appearing in the end.

[Bartimaeus]

Bed of Chaos is mildly interesting lore-wise, absolutely garbage gameplay-wise, and quite likely the worst boss of Dark Souls. I pray that the shown boss is nothing like her in the latter respect.

Edited December 27, 2015 by Bartimaeus

[Cyseal]

There won't be any similar game mechanics like Bed of chaos. Fromsoft confirmed that. I think that the next boss phase after the fall is in the abyss.

[Majek]

Nothing wrong gameplaywise with Bed of Chaos.  It's a puzzle not a DPS fight and it was a nice distraction compared to the way there.

[Fenixp]

Puzzle-based bosses are fine, but bed of chaos was horrible. Fighting it was just no fun and what's worse, there was pretty much no skill involved.