Turkey shoots down russian jet

[Sarex]

Erdogan has been playing the nationalist card a lot when the last election came around here, drumming up support from all the non jihadists to secure election victory. Nothing like starting a new war with the Kurds to get more votes at the ballots. He probably took notes from Bush's election campaigns, the current incumbent rarely get toppled in the middle of a conflict.

 

It predates Erdogan and it's on a national level, he is pretty much telling them what they want to hear.

[213374U]

Most of the people in my country didn't even vote for the current party in power (they had 24% of the vote but got over 50% of the seats), there was an outcry against bombing Syria that ended up preventing the current government from doing so, and were lied to by Mr Blair about Iraq (who most people want arrested for war crimes now), but you are right they won't care when they come knocking just as those your government have oppressed won't care either when they come knocking for you.  The only people who won't suffer from all this is the very people responsible for it all, it'll be the schmucks like you and me that pay the price.

 

Yeah, perhaps we should perfect "democracy" over here before attempting to export it. But dem mad profits tho.

 

It's interesting how people have been tricked into voting against their own collective interests. Are you familiar with Owen Jones?

[Drowsy Emperor]

 

 

Yeah I also don't have that view....its very negative 

 

 

It's the means by which some people cope with the lack of agency in their life by making themselves believe that those who suffer "had it coming".  I can understand it, but unfortunately those in power benefit the most from it.

 

 

You keep telling yourself that, it won't make it any more true but if it makes you feel good about yourself then more power to you.

 

See if the people your government oppressed care when they come knocking.

 

Most of the people in my country didn't even vote for the current party in power (they had 24% of the vote but got over 50% of the seats), there was an outcry against bombing Syria that ended up preventing the current government from doing so, and were lied to by Mr Blair about Iraq (who most people want arrested for war crimes now), but you are right they won't care when they come knocking just as those your government have oppressed won't care either when they come knocking for you.  The only people who won't suffer from all this is the very people responsible for it all, it'll be the schmucks like you and me that pay the price.

 

 

The former Ottoman empire conquered, ruled (and terrorized) my country and the region in general for several hundred years. When the Turkey of today starts shooting down Russian planes one way of seeing it is that they're knocking on that imperialist door again in which case my attitude (going from historical experience) can only instantly shift from cold indifference to outright enmity.

 

Strictly speaking I harbor no ill will towards any Turk or anyone else, but as far as their presence in Europe goes - once was more than enough.

 

Naturally, its all politicians moving pieces on a board and the innocents who pay the price, but when all is said and done, some pieces are more dear to me than others.

[FlintlockJazz]

 

Most of the people in my country didn't even vote for the current party in power (they had 24% of the vote but got over 50% of the seats), there was an outcry against bombing Syria that ended up preventing the current government from doing so, and were lied to by Mr Blair about Iraq (who most people want arrested for war crimes now), but you are right they won't care when they come knocking just as those your government have oppressed won't care either when they come knocking for you.  The only people who won't suffer from all this is the very people responsible for it all, it'll be the schmucks like you and me that pay the price.

 

Exactly! That is the system we chose and continue to chose it so we are responsible for it. Also don't think that it's only about Iraq. My country also holds a grudge for what you did to us in WW2, 1990 and 1999.

 

In my region, there isn't a single country in which the people would not wish harm upon each other in hopes that it would somehow make it's own situation better.

 

Croatia is getting military equipment (from the West (US I think)) that can be converted to a range where they can launch missiles at us (Serbia) and they are licking their lips about it. Apart from that they are constantly look for a way to trip us up. Albania is looking for any way it can to destabilize the region around it and annex Kosovo to it's borders. Macedonia is fighting a battle with it's own people because it's Muslim population has gotten so high it's influence can now cause a civil war and it's changing one puppet regime for another. Bosnia has Muslim terrorist training camps in it that are operating unchecked and the country it self is falling apart because the system that is in place is unable to do anything about that. Bulgaria is just falling apart economically, because the west won't help and they can't look to the east for fear of economic reprisal from said west. Hungary is pissed at us for letting immigrants through even though they would have probably condemned us as monsters with the rest of the world for not helping them otherwise.

 

I won't even go in to the past conflicts and misdeeds, because that would need and essay to explain and would include the whole of Europe.

 

Indeed, though I don't think anyone chose it, most were just born into it and through upbringing, indoctrination, and lack of agency end up with no choice.  It's like a train on autopilot now, self-perpetuating with us trapped within it mostly unaware that we are trapped.  And people are right to feel angry at those who have hurt their families or oppressed them, it's just that quite often the other person was also oppressed too and was getting revenge, creating a cycle.  What could a person do when everyone else is too heavily invested in the status quo to risk changing it even if they were aware of it, and what would we change it to even if we could?  I personally await out robot overlords to rise up and take over, they couldn't do any worse.  All Hail Skynet!!!  Vote HAL 9000 for a free tomorrow (from humans).

[FlintlockJazz]

 

Most of the people in my country didn't even vote for the current party in power (they had 24% of the vote but got over 50% of the seats), there was an outcry against bombing Syria that ended up preventing the current government from doing so, and were lied to by Mr Blair about Iraq (who most people want arrested for war crimes now), but you are right they won't care when they come knocking just as those your government have oppressed won't care either when they come knocking for you.  The only people who won't suffer from all this is the very people responsible for it all, it'll be the schmucks like you and me that pay the price.

 

Yeah, perhaps we should perfect "democracy" over here before attempting to export it. But dem mad profits tho.

 

It's interesting how people have been tricked into voting against their own collective interests. Are you familiar with Owen Jones?

 

Yeah, I think a lot of people are starting to realise that we don't have a real democracy, at least not anymore.  More an oligarchy.

 

Not familiar with Owen Jones, but I do find it interesting how people have been voting against themselves across the world.  Here many people kept on voting for New Labour because "we always voted Labour because they are the party of the working class like me" despite it being so obvious that Blair had changed it into something completely different.

[BruceVC]

 

 

Most of the people in my country didn't even vote for the current party in power (they had 24% of the vote but got over 50% of the seats), there was an outcry against bombing Syria that ended up preventing the current government from doing so, and were lied to by Mr Blair about Iraq (who most people want arrested for war crimes now), but you are right they won't care when they come knocking just as those your government have oppressed won't care either when they come knocking for you.  The only people who won't suffer from all this is the very people responsible for it all, it'll be the schmucks like you and me that pay the price.

 

Yeah, perhaps we should perfect "democracy" over here before attempting to export it. But dem mad profits tho.

 

It's interesting how people have been tricked into voting against their own collective interests. Are you familiar with Owen Jones?

 

Yeah, I think a lot of people are starting to realise that we don't have a real democracy, at least not anymore.  More an oligarchy.

 

Not familiar with Owen Jones, but I do find it interesting how people have been voting against themselves across the world.  Here many people kept on voting for New Labour because "we always voted Labour because they are the party of the working class like me" despite it being so obvious that Blair had changed it into something completely different.

 

Flint I have a very different view of the West, I am a huge supporter of the West. By the way my family come from the UK, we have property in London and the UK would be the place I immigrate to if South Africa collapses

 

I can give you a much more positive view but only if you want to read it  

[Zoraptor]

Erdogan has been playing the nationalist card a lot when the last election came around here, drumming up support from all the non jihadists to secure election victory. Nothing like starting a new war with the Kurds to get more votes at the ballots. He probably took notes from Bush's election campaigns, the current incumbent rarely get toppled in the middle of a conflict.

 

On the annexation front, Turkey has already stolen a bit of Syria previous; the part of 'Turkey' where the Su-24 was shot down was part of Syria until France gave it away and there was a referendum held to annex it which involved bussing large numbers of Turks in to ensure the right result was found. Indeed, that is a very easy way to claim that Turkey's airspace was never violated, simply say that it's occupied Syrian airspace (same for Golan Heights, where no one except Israel recognises their annexation). But in any case, getting Turkey out of any safe zone would be a big problem, anyone thinking otherwise can look to Cyprus.

[Darkpriest]

Some other articles:

 

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/erdogan-trump-card-against-putin-222844006.html

 

http://nextbigfuture.com/2015/12/russia-adding-second-airbase-in-syria.html

 

 

It seems that US is willing to officially send some operatives into Syria:

 

http://news.yahoo.com/carter-u-special-operations-forces-expanding-iraq-182504093.html

[Mamoulian War]

The first few paragraphs of the Yahoo article are pretty hilarious... Poor Turkmen Grey Wolves "terrorists"...

[Mamoulian War]

Something you will never probably never see in most of the western media

 

Interview of Czech Television with Assad

 

Google Translate. I Hope it is accurate enough translation.

 

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=cs&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ceskatelevize.cz%2Fct24%2Fsvet%2F1628712-asad-pro-ct-rebelove-jsou-jako-zoldaci-vetsina-plni-zajmy-jinych&edit-text=&act=url

 

EDIT: I do not know, if the video is available in all countries, but the whole video interview is in English.

Edited December 2, 2015 by Mamoulian War

[BruceVC]

Some other articles:

 

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/erdogan-trump-card-against-putin-222844006.html

 

http://nextbigfuture.com/2015/12/russia-adding-second-airbase-in-syria.html

 

 

It seems that US is willing to officially send some operatives into Syria:

 

http://news.yahoo.com/carter-u-special-operations-forces-expanding-iraq-182504093.html

 

 

The first few paragraphs of the Yahoo article are pretty hilarious... Poor Turkmen Grey Wolves "terrorists"...

How do you guys feel about Turks from a historical East European perspective ?

[Mamoulian War]

I have no problem with Turks. My favourite holiday site in Europe is in Turkey. I have problem with Erdogan's way of handling stuff :-/ And hypocrisy of EU on this matter...

Edited December 2, 2015 by Mamoulian War

[BruceVC]

I have no problem with Turks. My favourite holiday site in Europe is in Turkey. I have problem with Erdogan's way of handling stuff :-/ And hypocrisy of EU on this matter...

So would you feel your country would accept say 20,000 Turkish refugees ?

[Mamoulian War]

No, because our prime minister is a bigot and his voting campaign for next year's election, is based on anti-islamic fear-mongering.

 

here you can read, what our independent journalist think about the newest deal with Erdogan...

 

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=sk&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aktuality.sk%2Fclanok%2F309306%2Fkomentar-daga-danisa-ako-turecko-likviduje-novinarov-a-prefackava-eu%2F&edit-text=&act=url

 

Google translate from slovak to english is usually crap, so I hope this will be accurate enough... the more educated people here are seeing it the same way, as this journalist, altgough, he is to much right wing journalist, he has a lot of valid points in his reports on the war against Daesh.

[BruceVC]

No, because our prime minister is a bigot and his voting campaign for next year's election, is based on anti-islamic fear-mongering.

 

here you can read, what our independent journalist think about the newest deal with Erdogan...

 

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=sk&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aktuality.sk%2Fclanok%2F309306%2Fkomentar-daga-danisa-ako-turecko-likviduje-novinarov-a-prefackava-eu%2F&edit-text=&act=url

 

Google translate from slovak to english is usually crap, so I hope this will be accurate enough... the more educated people here are seeing it the same way, as this journalist, altgough, he is to much right wing journalist, he has a lot of valid points in his reports on the war against Daesh.

Thank for sharing I am learning a lot , is Slovakian language the same as Czech?

[Drowsy Emperor]

Something you will never probably never see in most of the western media

 

Interview of Czech Television with Assad

 

Google Translate. I Hope it is accurate enough translation.

 

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=cs&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ceskatelevize.cz%2Fct24%2Fsvet%2F1628712-asad-pro-ct-rebelove-jsou-jako-zoldaci-vetsina-plni-zajmy-jinych&edit-text=&act=url

 

EDIT: I do not know, if the video is available in all countries, but the whole video interview is in English.

 

How are you bearing up personally as you experience?

On a personal level for me it has no effect, because no one takes seriously the Western leaders. For many reasons. First of all - do not trust, secondly - have a vision, they are shallower, for the third - not independent, are doing what America commands. They do not esteem practically most European leaders seemed to exist. We look to the lord and master of the US, so it does not feel personally. In war it matters to me what he wants Syrian people and how the people of Syria watching me, the others do not interest me. These changes in European attitudes towards Syria, and me personally, it's up and down. But I personally have not changed, remain the same since I was in 2000, became president. So you have to ask them why their attitudes change.

 

 

Lol, what have we come to that even Assad says this.

[Chilloutman]

 

No, because our prime minister is a bigot and his voting campaign for next year's election, is based on anti-islamic fear-mongering.

 

here you can read, what our independent journalist think about the newest deal with Erdogan...

 

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=sk&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aktuality.sk%2Fclanok%2F309306%2Fkomentar-daga-danisa-ako-turecko-likviduje-novinarov-a-prefackava-eu%2F&edit-text=&act=url

 

Google translate from slovak to english is usually crap, so I hope this will be accurate enough... the more educated people here are seeing it the same way, as this journalist, altgough, he is to much right wing journalist, he has a lot of valid points in his reports on the war against Daesh.

Thank for sharing I am learning a lot , is Slovakian language the same as Czech?

 

Very Close, we can understand each other without problem (well, if you are not too young)

[BruceVC]

 

 

No, because our prime minister is a bigot and his voting campaign for next year's election, is based on anti-islamic fear-mongering.

 

here you can read, what our independent journalist think about the newest deal with Erdogan...

 

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=sk&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aktuality.sk%2Fclanok%2F309306%2Fkomentar-daga-danisa-ako-turecko-likviduje-novinarov-a-prefackava-eu%2F&edit-text=&act=url

 

Google translate from slovak to english is usually crap, so I hope this will be accurate enough... the more educated people here are seeing it the same way, as this journalist, altgough, he is to much right wing journalist, he has a lot of valid points in his reports on the war against Daesh.

Thank for sharing I am learning a lot , is Slovakian language the same as Czech?

 

Very Close, we can understand each other without problem (well, if you are not too young)

 

Why did your countries separate ?

[Mamoulian War]

 

No, because our prime minister is a bigot and his voting campaign for next year's election, is based on anti-islamic fear-mongering.

 

here you can read, what our independent journalist think about the newest deal with Erdogan...

 

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=sk&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aktuality.sk%2Fclanok%2F309306%2Fkomentar-daga-danisa-ako-turecko-likviduje-novinarov-a-prefackava-eu%2F&edit-text=&act=url

 

Google translate from slovak to english is usually crap, so I hope this will be accurate enough... the more educated people here are seeing it the same way, as this journalist, altgough, he is to much right wing journalist, he has a lot of valid points in his reports on the war against Daesh.

Thank for sharing I am learning a lot , is Slovakian language the same as Czech?

 

 

Not the same, but very  very close, we can both talk in our own language and we understand each other, without issues.

[Mamoulian War]

 

 

 

No, because our prime minister is a bigot and his voting campaign for next year's election, is based on anti-islamic fear-mongering.

 

here you can read, what our independent journalist think about the newest deal with Erdogan...

 

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=sk&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aktuality.sk%2Fclanok%2F309306%2Fkomentar-daga-danisa-ako-turecko-likviduje-novinarov-a-prefackava-eu%2F&edit-text=&act=url

 

Google translate from slovak to english is usually crap, so I hope this will be accurate enough... the more educated people here are seeing it the same way, as this journalist, altgough, he is to much right wing journalist, he has a lot of valid points in his reports on the war against Daesh.

Thank for sharing I am learning a lot , is Slovakian language the same as Czech?

 

Very Close, we can understand each other without problem (well, if you are not too young)

 

Why did your countries separate ?

 

 

By greedy politicians in 1993, but without war, which would not be possible in many of the "civilized" countries

 

They just signed some papers, and we became two states.

[Mamoulian War]

 

Something you will never probably never see in most of the western media

 

Interview of Czech Television with Assad

 

Google Translate. I Hope it is accurate enough translation.

 

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=cs&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ceskatelevize.cz%2Fct24%2Fsvet%2F1628712-asad-pro-ct-rebelove-jsou-jako-zoldaci-vetsina-plni-zajmy-jinych&edit-text=&act=url

 

EDIT: I do not know, if the video is available in all countries, but the whole video interview is in English.

 

How are you bearing up personally as you experience?

On a personal level for me it has no effect, because no one takes seriously the Western leaders. For many reasons. First of all - do not trust, secondly - have a vision, they are shallower, for the third - not independent, are doing what America commands. They do not esteem practically most European leaders seemed to exist. We look to the lord and master of the US, so it does not feel personally. In war it matters to me what he wants Syrian people and how the people of Syria watching me, the others do not interest me. These changes in European attitudes towards Syria, and me personally, it's up and down. But I personally have not changed, remain the same since I was in 2000, became president. So you have to ask them why their attitudes change.

 

 

Lol, what have we come to that even Assad says this.

 

 

Yes, I consider myself proud European, but EU including our own politicians are acting as US vassals, not as the proud leaders of their own nations... And this might in the end cause the collapse of European Union and spark WWIII sooner or later...

Edited December 2, 2015 by Mamoulian War

[Chilloutman]

 

 

 

 

No, because our prime minister is a bigot and his voting campaign for next year's election, is based on anti-islamic fear-mongering.

 

here you can read, what our independent journalist think about the newest deal with Erdogan...

 

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=sk&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aktuality.sk%2Fclanok%2F309306%2Fkomentar-daga-danisa-ako-turecko-likviduje-novinarov-a-prefackava-eu%2F&edit-text=&act=url

 

Google translate from slovak to english is usually crap, so I hope this will be accurate enough... the more educated people here are seeing it the same way, as this journalist, altgough, he is to much right wing journalist, he has a lot of valid points in his reports on the war against Daesh.

Thank for sharing I am learning a lot , is Slovakian language the same as Czech?

 

Very Close, we can understand each other without problem (well, if you are not too young)

 

Why did your countries separate ?

 

 

By greedy politicians in 1993, but without war, which would not be possible in many of the "civilized" countries

 

They just signed some papers, and we became two states.

 

Actually Slovaks were very nationalist (after czechs invested tons of money to industrialise them ) but no hard feelings from Czech side, town were I live is full of Slovaks because of better job opportunities and univeristies. We are like brothers and sisters who like to tease each other from time to time

[Mamoulian War]

 

 

 

 

 

No, because our prime minister is a bigot and his voting campaign for next year's election, is based on anti-islamic fear-mongering.

 

here you can read, what our independent journalist think about the newest deal with Erdogan...

 

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=sk&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aktuality.sk%2Fclanok%2F309306%2Fkomentar-daga-danisa-ako-turecko-likviduje-novinarov-a-prefackava-eu%2F&edit-text=&act=url

 

Google translate from slovak to english is usually crap, so I hope this will be accurate enough... the more educated people here are seeing it the same way, as this journalist, altgough, he is to much right wing journalist, he has a lot of valid points in his reports on the war against Daesh.

Thank for sharing I am learning a lot , is Slovakian language the same as Czech?

 

Very Close, we can understand each other without problem (well, if you are not too young)

 

Why did your countries separate ?

 

 

By greedy politicians in 1993, but without war, which would not be possible in many of the "civilized" countries

 

They just signed some papers, and we became two states.

 

Actually Slovaks were very nationalist (after czechs invested tons of money to industrialise them ) but no hard feelings from Czech side, town were I live is full of Slovaks because of better job opportunities and univeristies. We are like brothers and sisters who like to tease each other from time to time

 

 

Well it was only the typical "loud minority" Led by V. Meciar and J.Slota and their "nationalistic" rhetoric because they wanted to get their corrupt hands on privatizing the fruits of the said industrialization :-/

 

Lot of common people at that time prefered loose federation over separate states :-/

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

 

 

 

No, because our prime minister is a bigot and his voting campaign for next year's election, is based on anti-islamic fear-mongering.

 

here you can read, what our independent journalist think about the newest deal with Erdogan...

 

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=sk&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aktuality.sk%2Fclanok%2F309306%2Fkomentar-daga-danisa-ako-turecko-likviduje-novinarov-a-prefackava-eu%2F&edit-text=&act=url

 

Google translate from slovak to english is usually crap, so I hope this will be accurate enough... the more educated people here are seeing it the same way, as this journalist, altgough, he is to much right wing journalist, he has a lot of valid points in his reports on the war against Daesh.

Thank for sharing I am learning a lot , is Slovakian language the same as Czech?

 

Very Close, we can understand each other without problem (well, if you are not too young)

 

Why did your countries separate ?

 

 

By greedy politicians in 1993, but without war, which would not be possible in many of the "civilized" countries

 

They just signed some papers, and we became two states.

 

Actually Slovaks were very nationalist (after czechs invested tons of money to industrialise them ) but no hard feelings from Czech side, town were I live is full of Slovaks because of better job opportunities and univeristies. We are like brothers and sisters who like to tease each other from time to time

 

 

Well it was only the typical "loud minority" Led by V. Meciar and J.Slota and their "nationalistic" rhetoric because they wanted to get their corrupt hands on privatizing the fruits of the said industrialization :-/

 

Lot of common people at that time prefered loose federation over separate states :-/

 

This is interesting, do you see now when you are faced with a perceived  threat like Islamic extremism that actually challengers your entire culture how similar you are ? In other words you are family 

[Chilloutman]

This is interesting, do you see now when you are faced with a perceived  threat like Islamic extremism that actually challengers your entire culture how similar you are ? In other words you are family

Man learn to quote, no-one wants to read wall of text which are no longer integral to disscussion bellow