European Refugee Crisis

[Amentep]

What Amentep says is correct. However, Qistina does have a point in this regard: "extremist Muslims" too often imply that what ISIS does is just standard Islam beliefs gone too far. There is not enough effort by the Western media - and, indeed, by the religious leaders of Muslim communities themselves - to communicate just how and why these groups do not represent Islam. Very few people in the West know anything about what being a Muslim entails, so it is very easy for people to think that there might be something in the religion that encourages such 'extremism'.

I think it comes down to soundbite-ism. There's no way you can actually deal with the complexities regarding Islamic groups, sub-groups and which sides believe what in 60 seconds.  And 60 seconds or less is what the nightly news wants to give you (or conversely its what most people want from the nightly news so it is what we all get).

 

 

 

What Amentep says is correct. However, Qistina does have a point in this regard: "extremist Muslims" too often imply that what ISIS does is just standard Islam beliefs gone too far. There is not enough effort by the Western media - and, indeed, by the religious leaders of Muslim communities themselves - to communicate just how and why these groups do not represent Islam. Very few people in the West know anything about what being a Muslim entails, so it is very easy for people to think that there might be something in the religion that encourages such 'extremism'.

mmmm......I dont think I agree with that, I guess I expect you guys to be a lot more cleverer than that...I hold you guys in high regard 

 

How hard is it to not assume that the actions of 20,000 extrmists don't represent 2 Billion muslims globally....did you guys honestlly not realize this?

 

It seems like we need to state the obvious ?

 

I think a lot of people do realize this.  I think there's also a lot of people who've never really given it much thought at all, and so can only react when presented with terrorist acts, for example.

[Meshugger]

<whistles innocently>

 

 

Half-hearted, feeble retort: 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OthKVyLRndc

 

TL;DW: Mr posh British has not even grasped the situation.

Edited November 23, 2015 by Meshugger

[Drowsy Emperor]

What the **** has this thread turned into

Edited November 23, 2015 by Drowsy Emperor

[Darkpriest]

What the **** has this thread turned into

 

I know, right...

[BruceVC]

Funny, that, from a British person. Interestingly Canada is refusing to take single men, essentially, as refugees - http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-refugee-plan-women-children-families-1.3330185

 

Doubt there was much a security risk to begin with considering the source we are taking them from (camps).

Malc...you Canadians have some  weird social issues. Firstly Volo makes a post about Canadian varsity students not knowing what a Yoga class is now this....what about a single man who left his family  in Syria, is Canada going to deny him chance to create a life for himself . You guys need my advice ....if I send you a PM maybe you print it out and give it you new PM...he is young and believes in SJ so he will think its from you who is a concerned citizen....the hardest part being can you pretend to be concerned about your country 

[Malcador]

Well it does suck for a single guy who just wants out of being drafted by either side or just dead. But other countries will take them.

 

Had to laugh at people pointing out Steve Jobs was born to Syrians. That's a reason to keep them out, surely

[BruceVC]

Well it does suck for a single guy who just wants out of being drafted by either side or just dead. But other countries will take them.

 

Had to laugh at people pointing out Steve Jobs was born to Syrians. That's a reason to keep them out, surely

Malc do you know what  no one has thought of ....and its fine you can take credit for my idea

 

Canada has huge territories of uninhabited land, forests and mountains  ....lets be honest. Canada could invite another 100,000 Syrians and let them live in that uninhabited land ...its not like you would see them or be bothered by them 

 

It would be right thing to do

[Qistina]

 

I ask you, why your media NEVER use this word "HERETIC/HERETICAL"?

 

They don't want to say "these are heretic Muslims", "these are heretical Islam"...why?

 

Because heretic is a term only an insane religious zealot would ever use. 

 

 

 

Because heretic implies that there's only one true religion or doctrine, of which all must follow in the land, which in turn is taboo in western, secular society. 

 

We are civilized now and use words like "racist", "homophobic" or "misogynist" instead. Get with the times already.

 

No, it is because they don't want to upset their best friend, the Saudi....

 

 

You see, the Wahhabi in all other places, outside Arab, they call such thing in the video above as haram, not allowed, unIslamic, they always try to ban such thing...but in Saudi Arabia...it becomes halal, allowed, and many justifications come out from their scholars...

[Qistina]

And what is this...is this even Islamic?

 

 

[Namutree]

 

Because heretic is a term only an insane religious zealot would ever use. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No, it is because they don't want to upset their best friend, the Saudi....

 

We would never use heretic regardless of our relationship with the Saudi. This has nothing to do with them. We will never use heretic word in our lingo again. Perhaps you aren't that familiar with the west's past, but that word has a dark history that we aren't eager to repeat.

Edited November 24, 2015 by Namutree

[Qistina]

Al Qaeda, ISIS, Boko Haram, An Nusra, and whatever, they are all heretics. They are not even Islamic, but yet they are proud to make themselves as "protector of Islam", "true Islam", while actually they are just bull****ing everyone. They imposed their heretical teaching to everyone else, while they themselves are like in those videos

 

To Saudi women, they don't allow to drive, must cover the whole body, must cover the face, not allowed to this and that....while in clubs and hidden places they throw money to sexy night club singers, hedonistic. Now don't you guys suprised why ISIS sell women, rape women and such? But western media always portray these hooligans as "ISLAMIC"...

 

This is what i call hipocrisy, they are not even religious but they being portrayed as religious, "extremely religious", it's bull****. Just because they are Arabs doesn't mean they are religiously Muslims and doesn't mean Muslims taking them as role model. They are no difference than any hooligans out there and corrupt.

[BruceVC]

Al Qaeda, ISIS, Boko Haram, An Nusra, and whatever, they are all heretics. They are not even Islamic, but yet they are proud to make themselves as "protector of Islam", "true Islam", while actually they are just bull****ing everyone. They imposed their heretical teaching to everyone else, while they themselves are like in those videos

 

To Saudi women, they don't allow to drive, must cover the whole body, must cover the face, not allowed to this and that....while in clubs and hidden places they throw money to sexy night club singers, hedonistic. Now don't you guys suprised why ISIS sell women, rape women and such? But western media always portray these hooligans as "ISLAMIC"...

 

This is what i call hipocrisy, they are not even religious but they being portrayed as religious, "extremely religious", it's bull****. Just because they are Arabs doesn't mean they are religiously Muslims and doesn't mean Muslims taking them as role model. They are no difference than any hooligans out there and corrupt.

No but there are many people in the West who wont call ISIS  Islamic because they are acting in a way that many Islamic commentators say they aren't Muslim. Obama for example doesn't refer to them as Islamic

 

For me I don't know why people think it matters. As I said earlier most  people know they don't represent the Muslim community 

[Qistina]

What i am trying to say is, just because there are many Syrian refugees in Europe now, doesn't mean they are like those hooligans, there are many Christian Syrians too, they are orthodox mind you. But western media play fear mongering. When Muslims do bad things, the media will attribute it to Islam and all Muslims. let say there are bombings in Europe, the first thing that come out is "Islam" and Syrian refugees will be blamed.

 

Syrian and Saudi are two dfferent race anyway, not the same stock of people.

 

Muslims are of different races, we have different values, we have different agendas. Just because those heretics doing whatever they are doing, doesn't mean they represent Islam. And there is no such thing as liberal, moderate and extremist Islam. There is only Islam. It just non-heretic and heretical Islam.

[Namutree]

 

 they are not even religious but they being portrayed as religious, "extremely religious", it's bull****. 

It's how they portray themselves.

 

 

 

This is what i call hipocrisy, 

Most religious people are extremely hypocritical. Especially fundamentalists. Them being this way only makes the case of them being motivated by Islam stronger.

[Qistina]

see what i mean...you are using another word...fundemental...what is this? It is you who give such label. i already tell you about heretical and non-heretical. But you choose to use the word "fundemental" as if it is a real thing

 

What is fundemental Islam anyway?

[Namutree]

 

Muslims are of different races, we have different values, we have different agendas. Just because those heretics doing whatever they are doing, doesn't mean they represent Islam. And there is no such thing as liberal, moderate and extremist Islam. There is only Islam. It just non-heretic and heretical Islam.

Except that the liberal Muslims think they are practicing the non-heretical Islam, the moderates think they are practicing the non-heretical Islam, and the wahhabist think they are practicing the non-heretical Islam. There is no "correct" interpretation of Islam, or any religion for that matter; because there is no active Deity to show up and clarify what he and his prophet's meant. So until God shows up and tells us DIRECTLY (No cult leaders prophets) it's impossible to determine who's wrong.

[Namutree]

see what i mean...you are using another word...fundemental...what is this? It is you who give such label. i already tell you about heretical and non-heretical. But you choose to use the word "fundemental" as if it is a real thing

 

What is fundemental Islam anyway?

Fundamentalism is when you take quotes from holy books as literally true. For example: Some one who believes the events in the book of Sega Genesis literally happened.

 

Basically people whom take their religion waaaaay too seriously and it blinds them to basic reality. They tend to be seen as poor representatives of their religion (often ignoring the proper context of their holy doctrines) and are for the most part hopelessly insane. They're also usually a danger to themselves and others.

[Elerond]

 

Al Qaeda, ISIS, Boko Haram, An Nusra, and whatever, they are all heretics. They are not even Islamic, but yet they are proud to make themselves as "protector of Islam", "true Islam", while actually they are just bull****ing everyone. They imposed their heretical teaching to everyone else, while they themselves are like in those videos

 

To Saudi women, they don't allow to drive, must cover the whole body, must cover the face, not allowed to this and that....while in clubs and hidden places they throw money to sexy night club singers, hedonistic. Now don't you guys suprised why ISIS sell women, rape women and such? But western media always portray these hooligans as "ISLAMIC"...

 

This is what i call hipocrisy, they are not even religious but they being portrayed as religious, "extremely religious", it's bull****. Just because they are Arabs doesn't mean they are religiously Muslims and doesn't mean Muslims taking them as role model. They are no difference than any hooligans out there and corrupt.

No but there are many people in the West who wont call ISIS  Islamic because they are acting in a way that many Islamic commentators say they aren't Muslim. Obama for example doesn't refer to them as Islamic

 

For me I don't know why people think it matters. As I said earlier most  people know they don't represent the Muslim community 

 

 

Actually as long as we call them ISIS or ISIL we are calling them Islamic as we accept them to be part of Islam in their name. It is clever branding trick from their leaders. Even Daesh term, which said leaders are said to hate, has implication that they are Islamic.

 

I would not be so bold and assume that most of people know that they don't represent Islam and Muslim community, because even though there isn't actually any good study about subject, so polls and political behavior seem to show that people link them more and more heavily to mainstream Islam.

[BruceVC]

 

 

Al Qaeda, ISIS, Boko Haram, An Nusra, and whatever, they are all heretics. They are not even Islamic, but yet they are proud to make themselves as "protector of Islam", "true Islam", while actually they are just bull****ing everyone. They imposed their heretical teaching to everyone else, while they themselves are like in those videos

 

To Saudi women, they don't allow to drive, must cover the whole body, must cover the face, not allowed to this and that....while in clubs and hidden places they throw money to sexy night club singers, hedonistic. Now don't you guys suprised why ISIS sell women, rape women and such? But western media always portray these hooligans as "ISLAMIC"...

 

This is what i call hipocrisy, they are not even religious but they being portrayed as religious, "extremely religious", it's bull****. Just because they are Arabs doesn't mean they are religiously Muslims and doesn't mean Muslims taking them as role model. They are no difference than any hooligans out there and corrupt.

No but there are many people in the West who wont call ISIS  Islamic because they are acting in a way that many Islamic commentators say they aren't Muslim. Obama for example doesn't refer to them as Islamic

 

For me I don't know why people think it matters. As I said earlier most  people know they don't represent the Muslim community 

 

 

Actually as long as we call them ISIS or ISIL we are calling them Islamic as we accept them to be part of Islam in their name. It is clever branding trick from their leaders. Even Daesh term, which said leaders are said to hate, has implication that they are Islamic.

 

I would not be so bold and assume that most of people know that they don't represent Islam and Muslim community, because even though there isn't actually any good study about subject, so polls and political behavior seem to show that people link them more and more heavily to mainstream Islam.

 

Seriously...you Finns as well? Guys I am really shocked that people look at ISIS and assume this is what the global Muslim community believes...but thanks for honesty

 

Elerond why do people in the EU tease Sweden and say things like " the Swedes are all self-hating and they enjoy taking in refugees " ?

[Elerond]

 

 

 

Al Qaeda, ISIS, Boko Haram, An Nusra, and whatever, they are all heretics. They are not even Islamic, but yet they are proud to make themselves as "protector of Islam", "true Islam", while actually they are just bull****ing everyone. They imposed their heretical teaching to everyone else, while they themselves are like in those videos

 

To Saudi women, they don't allow to drive, must cover the whole body, must cover the face, not allowed to this and that....while in clubs and hidden places they throw money to sexy night club singers, hedonistic. Now don't you guys suprised why ISIS sell women, rape women and such? But western media always portray these hooligans as "ISLAMIC"...

 

This is what i call hipocrisy, they are not even religious but they being portrayed as religious, "extremely religious", it's bull****. Just because they are Arabs doesn't mean they are religiously Muslims and doesn't mean Muslims taking them as role model. They are no difference than any hooligans out there and corrupt.

No but there are many people in the West who wont call ISIS  Islamic because they are acting in a way that many Islamic commentators say they aren't Muslim. Obama for example doesn't refer to them as Islamic

 

For me I don't know why people think it matters. As I said earlier most  people know they don't represent the Muslim community 

 

 

Actually as long as we call them ISIS or ISIL we are calling them Islamic as we accept them to be part of Islam in their name. It is clever branding trick from their leaders. Even Daesh term, which said leaders are said to hate, has implication that they are Islamic.

 

I would not be so bold and assume that most of people know that they don't represent Islam and Muslim community, because even though there isn't actually any good study about subject, so polls and political behavior seem to show that people link them more and more heavily to mainstream Islam.

 

Seriously...you Finns as well? Guys I am really shocked that people look at ISIS and assume this is what the global Muslim community believes...but thanks for honesty

 

Elerond why do people in the EU tease Sweden and say things like " the Swedes are all self-hating and they enjoy taking in refugees " ?

 

 

I would guess it because that is how right-wing media in USA has pictured Sweden and some people in EU use that is as joke or ammunition depending on their political views.

Like for example http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2015/04/20/self-loathing-sweden-should-only-welcome-persecuted-immigrants-not-the-persecuting/

 

In Finland I haven't seen such behavior, but Finland has long standing tradition to tease and mock Sweden for everything so we aren't influenced by others in that sector that much because they are usually far behind us anyway with their jokes and teases.

 

But to actually answer your question I don't know and I am not sure if they even say such thing in any meaningful amounts outside of internet forums where it can be used to strengthen some individuals own political views. 

[BruceVC]

What i am trying to say is, just because there are many Syrian refugees in Europe now, doesn't mean they are like those hooligans, there are many Christian Syrians too, they are orthodox mind you. But western media play fear mongering. When Muslims do bad things, the media will attribute it to Islam and all Muslims. let say there are bombings in Europe, the first thing that come out is "Islam" and Syrian refugees will be blamed.

 

Syrian and Saudi are two dfferent race anyway, not the same stock of people.

 

Muslims are of different races, we have different values, we have different agendas. Just because those heretics doing whatever they are doing, doesn't mean they represent Islam. And there is no such thing as liberal, moderate and extremist Islam. There is only Islam. It just non-heretic and heretical Islam.

Okay now you have made me remember a real criticism I have of the Muslim world ...I hope you can answer

 

Why is the Muslim world fine with the fact that the EU is taking in about 2 million Syrian Muslims. Why should the EU be taking in any Syrians?  

 

How many refugees is Malaysia taking in? Countries like Saudi Arabia are taking in none ...none. Yet the Muslim world is fine with these Syrians going to leave there home in the ME and going to a Christian country?And we know that many Muslims have issues with the EU ....yet obviously these issues aren't enough to want to help the Syrians

 

I explained earlier that one of the reasons that makes the West the most dominant ideology in the world is it believes in human rights...this a good example of that 

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

 

Al Qaeda, ISIS, Boko Haram, An Nusra, and whatever, they are all heretics. They are not even Islamic, but yet they are proud to make themselves as "protector of Islam", "true Islam", while actually they are just bull****ing everyone. They imposed their heretical teaching to everyone else, while they themselves are like in those videos

 

To Saudi women, they don't allow to drive, must cover the whole body, must cover the face, not allowed to this and that....while in clubs and hidden places they throw money to sexy night club singers, hedonistic. Now don't you guys suprised why ISIS sell women, rape women and such? But western media always portray these hooligans as "ISLAMIC"...

 

This is what i call hipocrisy, they are not even religious but they being portrayed as religious, "extremely religious", it's bull****. Just because they are Arabs doesn't mean they are religiously Muslims and doesn't mean Muslims taking them as role model. They are no difference than any hooligans out there and corrupt.

No but there are many people in the West who wont call ISIS  Islamic because they are acting in a way that many Islamic commentators say they aren't Muslim. Obama for example doesn't refer to them as Islamic

 

For me I don't know why people think it matters. As I said earlier most  people know they don't represent the Muslim community 

 

 

Actually as long as we call them ISIS or ISIL we are calling them Islamic as we accept them to be part of Islam in their name. It is clever branding trick from their leaders. Even Daesh term, which said leaders are said to hate, has implication that they are Islamic.

 

I would not be so bold and assume that most of people know that they don't represent Islam and Muslim community, because even though there isn't actually any good study about subject, so polls and political behavior seem to show that people link them more and more heavily to mainstream Islam.

 

Seriously...you Finns as well? Guys I am really shocked that people look at ISIS and assume this is what the global Muslim community believes...but thanks for honesty

 

Elerond why do people in the EU tease Sweden and say things like " the Swedes are all self-hating and they enjoy taking in refugees " ?

 

 

I would guess it because that is how right-wing media in USA has pictured Sweden and some people in EU use that is as joke or ammunition depending on their political views.

Like for example http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2015/04/20/self-loathing-sweden-should-only-welcome-persecuted-immigrants-not-the-persecuting/

 

In Finland I haven't seen such behavior, but Finland has long standing tradition to tease and mock Sweden for everything so we aren't influenced by others in that sector that much because they are usually far behind us anyway with their jokes and teases.

 

But to actually answer your question I don't know and I am not sure if they even say such thing in any meaningful amounts outside of internet forums where it can be used to strengthen some individuals own political views. 

 

Yes I think its a joke ....but I also think it was some sort of historical insult?

[Qistina]

 

see what i mean...you are using another word...fundemental...what is this? It is you who give such label. i already tell you about heretical and non-heretical. But you choose to use the word "fundemental" as if it is a real thing

 

What is fundemental Islam anyway?

Fundamentalism is when you take quotes from holy books as literally true. For example: Some one who believes the events in the book of Sega Genesis literally happened.

 

Basically people whom take their religion waaaaay too seriously and it blinds them to basic reality. They tend to be seen as poor representatives of their religion (often ignoring the proper context of their holy doctrines) and are for the most part hopelessly insane. They're also usually a danger to themselves and others.

 

 

That's what Wahhabi do...lol

 

And that's heretical

Edited November 24, 2015 by Qistina

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

 

Al Qaeda, ISIS, Boko Haram, An Nusra, and whatever, they are all heretics. They are not even Islamic, but yet they are proud to make themselves as "protector of Islam", "true Islam", while actually they are just bull****ing everyone. They imposed their heretical teaching to everyone else, while they themselves are like in those videos

 

To Saudi women, they don't allow to drive, must cover the whole body, must cover the face, not allowed to this and that....while in clubs and hidden places they throw money to sexy night club singers, hedonistic. Now don't you guys suprised why ISIS sell women, rape women and such? But western media always portray these hooligans as "ISLAMIC"...

 

This is what i call hipocrisy, they are not even religious but they being portrayed as religious, "extremely religious", it's bull****. Just because they are Arabs doesn't mean they are religiously Muslims and doesn't mean Muslims taking them as role model. They are no difference than any hooligans out there and corrupt.

No but there are many people in the West who wont call ISIS  Islamic because they are acting in a way that many Islamic commentators say they aren't Muslim. Obama for example doesn't refer to them as Islamic

 

For me I don't know why people think it matters. As I said earlier most  people know they don't represent the Muslim community 

 

 

Actually as long as we call them ISIS or ISIL we are calling them Islamic as we accept them to be part of Islam in their name. It is clever branding trick from their leaders. Even Daesh term, which said leaders are said to hate, has implication that they are Islamic.

 

I would not be so bold and assume that most of people know that they don't represent Islam and Muslim community, because even though there isn't actually any good study about subject, so polls and political behavior seem to show that people link them more and more heavily to mainstream Islam.

 

Seriously...you Finns as well? Guys I am really shocked that people look at ISIS and assume this is what the global Muslim community believes...but thanks for honesty

 

Elerond why do people in the EU tease Sweden and say things like " the Swedes are all self-hating and they enjoy taking in refugees " ?

 

 

I would guess it because that is how right-wing media in USA has pictured Sweden and some people in EU use that is as joke or ammunition depending on their political views.

Like for example http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2015/04/20/self-loathing-sweden-should-only-welcome-persecuted-immigrants-not-the-persecuting/

 

In Finland I haven't seen such behavior, but Finland has long standing tradition to tease and mock Sweden for everything so we aren't influenced by others in that sector that much because they are usually far behind us anyway with their jokes and teases.

 

But to actually answer your question I don't know and I am not sure if they even say such thing in any meaningful amounts outside of internet forums where it can be used to strengthen some individuals own political views. 

 

I read that link about Sweden, surly that can't be right....it makes it out like Sweden is some barbaric land?

[Qistina]

Wahhabis taken the Quran literally, they also taking weak and false hadith, that's why they are like what you see. Like this

 

 

Do you guys see any other Muslims look like this? No? it is because only heretics look like this.

 

Afghanistan is so ****ed by heretical teaching imported by Saudi-USA, they become like this

 

Edited November 24, 2015 by Qistina