European Refugee Crisis

[BruceVC]

I see  the other thread was locked but I had written a long post to Meshugger and I really want to post it

 

Also this is an important social change for all our members who live in the EU....and we need somewhere to discuss our concerns and look for solutions

 

Anyway here is my post to Meshugger

 

 

Let me guess: more quotas, a more heterogenous society, more forced tolerance, more restriction on speech in real life and online, essentially undermining any trust or common bond that could keep a society together without a repressive government. Thus, making Europe more like the Middle East than Europe before in order to keep it together.

 

But I am all ears, please tell me what solutions that i might've missed.

 

 

"No....thats way off. I'm sorry you think so less of my insight on these matters ....but I suppose its because of our pointless debates in the GG thread 

 

So firstly you are asking a valid and reasonable question, this has been asked by many people and studied  and the various outcomes analyzed. So I'll just summarize the various responses 

 

• Yes  one of the targets of Islamic extremism is the whole EU but groups like ISIS prefer to target the countries that they feel have been actively involved in a war against Islam as it adds to the sensationalism and there definition of " meaningful jihad " . So this would be places like France and the UK. 
• Large numbers of people from the ME don't like Finland, I'm not sure why? Its probably the weather ...remember those immigrants from Iraq saying Finland wasn't  that hospitable and recommended people go somewhere else .....I have to say thats quite the claim to fame. People come from a war torn hell hole like the occupied territories of Iraq under  ISIS where death, beheadings or crucifixion  await you  and yet they can't live in Finland .....  But on a serious note the good news is I doubt Finland is a destination of choice so you will naturally get less long term immigrants

So these  are just reasons why Finland is one of the EU countries that wouldn't normally be on the radar for a Paris style attack....these alone should reassure you a little 

 

Now I'll comment on the actual homegrown terrorism

 

• Yes its true homegrown terrorism is theoretically the hardest to stop. But the Boston Marathon  attacks are what are almost impossible to prevent. You have a small group of people who are foreigners and don't share there views with the greater Muslim community, so the attack is not  discussed or boasted about on social media and the normal information gathering techniques like informants are ineffective. Why I'm mentioning this is that in places like the USA and UK they do prevent attacks through information gathering...so dont assume an attack once thought about is inevitable 
• Attacks like Paris and the London underground were originated  from people who had lived in the communities for years, this can be prevented by having a good relationship with the Muslim community and having people who  really will inform. Now I mention this because this requires a social reality for people like the refugees where they feel part of the system.....countries like Denmark,  Sweden ,Finland and Norway are well known for excellent methods of integrating foreigners so once again this will reduce overall likelihood of attacks. How many extremist attacks have occurred in the Scandinavian countries over the last 10 years? And this is despite the fact that there are people who have left these countries and even fought in Syria
• France has a huge problem, they have trying to integrate Muslims from there former colonies for decades but they did this before it was understood that to reduce resentment and social alienation you can't just have people living in ghettos on social grants ..this breeds fundamentalism. France has also been correctly involved in various campaigns against extremism ....add to that sectors of the Muslim community there who are disillusioned and France becomes the logical target in the EU. But I'm not blaming the French...they are just in an invidious position historically when it comes to Islamic extremism..and of course we all stand by France 
• Why I mentioned France is  because a place like Finland is seen very differently to extremists and also the UK is equally considered a target. Yet we have seen fewer attacks succeed in the UK . Why is that ? Apart from the geography its because of the integration of the Muslim community and the fact there is better dialogue between the UK government and the UK Muslim community . So integration is very important 
• So in summary, yes you will have thousands of Syrians arriving in Finland. I imagine they will be nervous and see Finland as an alien place culturally compared to what they use to...but your government will provide the necessary resources to integrate them. Also you mustn't compare these Syrians to the Algerians and Tunisians that you see in  French gangs who are often involved in crime . The vast majority of them will not be  criminals and just want a place they can safely raise there families  and will give no issues to your country. And even if a small percentage are extremists they would rather target a place like France

 

Finally there is nothing wrong with being concerned and asking the questions you asked , I can imagine for all you guys like Mam, Dark and yourself this whole refugee migration must seem a little daunting. I would expect you to have doubts which is understandable ...then we had the Paris attacks so you guys might have thought " OMG ....and we are letting thousands of them into our country...what have our governments done " 

 

 

But the people who committed the Paris attacks are not motivated or have views like the Syrians arriving in Finland...so dont make a comparison. Anyway  I  hope to have alleviated some of your concerns....let me know if have other questions  " 

 

•  

Edited November 23, 2015 by BruceVC

[Meshugger]

Remove Finland from the equation as we have had a miniscule influx of refugees to have any effect on society so far. Also, fix the formatting, it's difficult to read.

[BruceVC]

Remove Finland from the equation as we have had a miniscule influx of refugees to have any effect on society so far. Also, fix the formatting, it's difficult to read.

Okay but I thought you had concerns about a home grown attack?

 

Interesting but the lack of refugees arriving in Finland confirms one of my points 

[Darkpriest]

I am sorry but Scandinavian countries are not attacked because they bend over their butts amd do whatever the closed communities want plus they are not even commenting on Syrian developments and provide ZERO military assistance. Funnily they have to sometimes convoy Ambulances or firefighters with police force to certain districts and areas. Coincidentaly those are muslim areas with immigrants from middle east and north africa... While I am no swede i was there several times.

[BruceVC]

I am sorry but Scandinavian countries are not attacked because they bend over their butts amd do whatever the closed communities want plus they are not even commenting on Syrian developments and provide ZERO military assistance. Funnily they have to sometimes convoy Ambulances or firefighters with police force to certain districts and areas. Coincidentaly those are muslim areas with immigrants from middle east and north africa... While I am no swede i was there several times.

Sure I have heard that about the Scandinavian countries before....lickety called them " self-hating Swedes "   

 

I found it quite funny because as a foreigner I was unaware of this type of view ...but I can understand why some in the EU may see the Scandinavians approach as maybe far too accommodating...I understand not all countries will or can do this

And yes if they have no military commitments then this just reduces the chance of an attack even more 

 

 

What country are you worried about in the EU?

[Chilloutman]

 

Finally there is nothing wrong with being concerned and asking the questions you asked , I can imagine for all you guys like Mam, Dark and yourself this whole refugee migration must seem a little daunting. I would expect you to have doubts which is understandable ...then we had the Paris attacks so you guys might have thought " OMG ....and we are letting thousands of them into our country...what have our governments done " 

 

 

But the people who committed the Paris attacks are not motivated or have views like the Syrians arriving in Finland...so dont make a comparison. Anyway  I  hope to have alleviated some of your concerns....let me know if have other questions  " 

 

Sure Paris attackers are next generation of imigrants, so we can expect same outcome of another generation of refuges?

[Drowsy Emperor]

 

Sure Paris attackers are next generation of imigrants, so we can expect same outcome of another generation of refuges?

 

 

You can expect the same outcome for as long as there are individuals who believe enough in Islam. And unlike the Soviet Union and its Baader-Meinhof types, jihadis of their era, you will not see Islam wither away in a few decades. At least for as long as the great majority of the masses that comprise the faith are inevitably poor (therefore difficult to seduce with a middle class hedonistic lifestyle), and in a constant state of population expansion (which ensures they stay relatively poor).

 

And if the native population of Europe continues the trend of shrinking birth rates and importation of low wage workers from Islamic countries that they cannot successfully assimilate (as has been proven repeatedly) then the problem will last until a tipping point of some sort is reached.

 

The problem is not the odd terrorist attack or in Islam itself, its the lack of a stable European identity that goes beyond "let's keep our wealthy status quo ad inifinitum". If Europeans knew who they were, positioning vis-a-vis Islam or any other entity would be much easier. The position of the great majority of muslims versus Europeans is fundamentally one of enmity based in religion. You can think what you like of that attitude, but its clear and logical. The position of Europe versus Islam is to ignore this aspect of muslim identity, create a separate category for the most combative ones ("extremists") thereby sweeping the problem under the rug and essentially pretending that nothing is happening. 

 

The European "solution" of expecting them all to become little secular Frenchmen and Germans, singing La Marseillaise and reading Goethe was a bit... presumptuous... to begin with. 

Edited November 23, 2015 by Drowsy Emperor

[BruceVC]

 

 

Finally there is nothing wrong with being concerned and asking the questions you asked , I can imagine for all you guys like Mam, Dark and yourself this whole refugee migration must seem a little daunting. I would expect you to have doubts which is understandable ...then we had the Paris attacks so you guys might have thought " OMG ....and we are letting thousands of them into our country...what have our governments done " 

 

 

But the people who committed the Paris attacks are not motivated or have views like the Syrians arriving in Finland...so dont make a comparison. Anyway  I  hope to have alleviated some of your concerns....let me know if have other questions  " 

•  

•  

Sure Paris attackers are next generation of imigrants, so we can expect same outcome of another generation of refuges?

 

Good question but no, remember France does face two real social problems that are relatively unique to the rest of Europe 

 

They have a huge problem with the integration of Muslims from there colonies

They are actively involved in numerous campaigns in places like Africa against extremism

 

I really admire the French for there effort and assistance they are giving there former African colonies...but sadly this makes them a real target for the extremists 

 

So my point being France has different social challenges to other European countries 

[Chilloutman]

 

 

 

Finally there is nothing wrong with being concerned and asking the questions you asked , I can imagine for all you guys like Mam, Dark and yourself this whole refugee migration must seem a little daunting. I would expect you to have doubts which is understandable ...then we had the Paris attacks so you guys might have thought " OMG ....and we are letting thousands of them into our country...what have our governments done " 

 

 

But the people who committed the Paris attacks are not motivated or have views like the Syrians arriving in Finland...so dont make a comparison. Anyway  I  hope to have alleviated some of your concerns....let me know if have other questions  " 

• • 
     

 

Sure Paris attackers are next generation of imigrants, so we can expect same outcome of another generation of refuges?

 

Good question but no, remember France does face two real social problems that are relatively unique to the rest of Europe 

 

They have a huge problem with the integration of Muslims from there colonies

They are actively involved in numerous campaigns in places like Africa against extremism

 

I really admire the French for there effort and assistance they are giving there former African colonies...but sadly this makes them a real target for the extremists 

 

So my point being France has different social challenges to other European countries

 

yeah sure, islamic ghettos are problem only in France, suuuureee....

[BruceVC]

 

 

Sure Paris attackers are next generation of imigrants, so we can expect same outcome of another generation of refuges?

 

 

You can expect the same outcome for as long as there are individuals who believe enough in Islam. And unlike the Soviet Union and its Baader-Meinhof types, jihadis of their era, you will not see Islam wither away in a few decades. At least for as long as the great majority of the masses that comprise the faith are inevitably poor (therefore difficult to seduce with a middle class hedonistic lifestyle), and in a constant state of population expansion (which ensures they stay relatively poor).

 

And if the native population of Europe continues the trend of shrinking birth rates and importation of low wage workers from Islamic countries that they cannot successfully assimilate (as has been proven repeatedly) then the problem will last until a tipping point of some sort is reached.

 

The problem is not the odd terrorist attack or in Islam itself, its the lack of a stable European identity that goes beyond "let's keep our wealthy status quo ad inifinitum". If Europeans knew who they were, positioning vis-a-vis Islam or any other entity would be much easier. The position of the great majority of muslims versus Europeans is fundamentally one of enmity based in religion. You can think what you like of that attitude, but its clear and logical. The position of Europe versus Islam is to ignore this aspect of muslim identity, create a separate category for the most combative ones ("extremists") thereby sweeping the problem under the rug and essentially pretending that nothing is happening. 

 

The European "solution" of expecting them all to become little secular Frenchmen and Germans, singing La Marseillaise and reading Goethe was a bit... presumptuous... to begin with. 

 

I really wish you wouldn't make such negative posts....I don't believe a word of it but I'm worried you may exacerbate the tension that many of European members are feeling 

 

The Syrian refugees coming to Europe DOES NOT  represent some sort of clash of civilizations. But I will say this, I may even agree with you that perhaps Muslim countries do resent the West for some or other reason but the reality is you will not see some sort of Islamic conversion of Europe because the Muslim world is simply just not stronger or admired enough to influence this

 

Sorry to sound direct but thats why Europeans have nothing to fear...your ideology and culture cannot be conquered by someone weaker than you  

[Elerond]

I am sorry but Scandinavian countries are not attacked because they bend over their butts amd do whatever the closed communities want plus they are not even commenting on Syrian developments and provide ZERO military assistance. Funnily they have to sometimes convoy Ambulances or firefighters with police force to certain districts and areas. Coincidentaly those are muslim areas with immigrants from middle east and north africa... While I am no swede i was there several times.

 

Funnily didn't got actually any of your facts right. But on other hand you got them just so as people from Nordic Countries seem to want to represent their countries to outside world.

 

First Finland is not actually part of Scandinavia (and also there isn't one single approach that Nordic countries have adopted towards any immigrants, but they all have quite different way to approach the subject)

Second Nordic countries don't actually give special privileges for Muslims or other immigrants, but instead immigrants often have difficulties to get same utilities that typical members of original population have.

Third Norway, Denmark, Sweden and Finland actually have given military assistance against ISIS for quite long time now. Which is thing that comes as surprise for quite many Nordic people.

Forth there isn't not actually those certain districts (where ambulances and firefighters need police escort) even in Sweden where those "news" about it come.

 

I would say that reason why Nordic countries aren't targeted by Islamic terrorists (although Denmark was already target of such attack), is because they are poor targets for them. Because even in Sweden, that has largest Muslim population in Nordic Countries, Muslims make only 5% of total population, which means that amount of people that could be recruited to do such attacks is low. Also attacks in Nordic countries will produce much less coverage for their ideology.

 

Also it is worth to note that Islam isn't actually one single religion, which has quite big influence in current crisis in Iraq and Syria. And it is also quite important factor when it comes to question how probable it is that some members of Muslim population become radicalized. 

 

Interesting article to read

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alastair-crooke/isis-wahhabism-saudi-arabia_b_5717157.html

[Chilloutman]

 

 

Sure Paris attackers are next generation of imigrants, so we can expect same outcome of another generation of refuges?

 

You can expect the same outcome for as long as there are individuals who believe enough in Islam. And unlike the Soviet Union and its Baader-Meinhof types, jihadis of their era, you will not see Islam wither away in a few decades. At least for as long as the great majority of the masses that comprise the faith are inevitably poor (therefore difficult to seduce with a middle class hedonistic lifestyle), and in a constant state of population expansion (which ensures they stay relatively poor).

 

And if the native population of Europe continues the trend of shrinking birth rates and importation of low wage workers from Islamic countries that they cannot successfully assimilate (as has been proven repeatedly) then the problem will last until a tipping point of some sort is reached.

 

The problem is not the odd terrorist attack or in Islam itself, its the lack of a stable European identity that goes beyond "let's keep our wealthy status quo ad inifinitum". If Europeans knew who they were, positioning vis-a-vis Islam or any other entity would be much easier. The position of the great majority of muslims versus Europeans is fundamentally one of enmity based in religion. You can think what you like of that attitude, but its clear and logical. The position of Europe versus Islam is to ignore this aspect of muslim identity, create a separate category for the most combative ones ("extremists") thereby sweeping the problem under the rug and essentially pretending that nothing is happening. 

 

The European "solution" of expecting them all to become little secular Frenchmen and Germans, singing La Marseillaise and reading Goethe was a bit... presumptuous... to begin with.

 

I really wish you wouldn't make such negative posts....I don't believe a word of it but I'm worried you may exacerbate the tension that many of European members are feeling 

 

The Syrian refugees coming to Europe DOES NOT  represent some sort of clash of civilizations. But I will say this, I may even agree with you that perhaps Muslim countries do resent the West for some or other reason but the reality is you will not see some sort of Islamic conversion of Europe because the Muslim world is simply just not stronger or admired enough to influence this

 

Sorry to sound direct but thats why Europeans have nothing to fear...your ideology and culture cannot be conquered by someone weaker than you

 

Tell this to Romans...

[Darkpriest]

@Elerond.

 

I am not a citizen there so I just stated what it seems to look like from my perspective when some news hit the higher coverage or from some lunch talks while there and some incident happens

[Darkpriest]

 

 

Sure Paris attackers are next generation of imigrants, so we can expect same outcome of another generation of refuges?

 

You can expect the same outcome for as long as there are individuals who believe enough in Islam. And unlike the Soviet Union and its Baader-Meinhof types, jihadis of their era, you will not see Islam wither away in a few decades. At least for as long as the great majority of the masses that comprise the faith are inevitably poor (therefore difficult to seduce with a middle class hedonistic lifestyle), and in a constant state of population expansion (which ensures they stay relatively poor).

 

And if the native population of Europe continues the trend of shrinking birth rates and importation of low wage workers from Islamic countries that they cannot successfully assimilate (as has been proven repeatedly) then the problem will last until a tipping point of some sort is reached.

 

The problem is not the odd terrorist attack or in Islam itself, its the lack of a stable European identity that goes beyond "let's keep our wealthy status quo ad inifinitum". If Europeans knew who they were, positioning vis-a-vis Islam or any other entity would be much easier. The position of the great majority of muslims versus Europeans is fundamentally one of enmity based in religion. You can think what you like of that attitude, but its clear and logical. The position of Europe versus Islam is to ignore this aspect of muslim identity, create a separate category for the most combative ones ("extremists") thereby sweeping the problem under the rug and essentially pretending that nothing is happening.

 

The European "solution" of expecting them all to become little secular Frenchmen and Germans, singing La Marseillaise and reading Goethe was a bit... presumptuous... to begin with.

Truth to be told I can't blame them for not wanting to read Goethe

 

And yeah. We had plenty examples in history. Babylon, Egypt, Greece, Rome etc. With Rome being the best example as it ell to religious turmoils and barabrian invasions

Edited November 23, 2015 by Darkpriest

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

Sure Paris attackers are next generation of imigrants, so we can expect same outcome of another generation of refuges?

 

You can expect the same outcome for as long as there are individuals who believe enough in Islam. And unlike the Soviet Union and its Baader-Meinhof types, jihadis of their era, you will not see Islam wither away in a few decades. At least for as long as the great majority of the masses that comprise the faith are inevitably poor (therefore difficult to seduce with a middle class hedonistic lifestyle), and in a constant state of population expansion (which ensures they stay relatively poor).

 

And if the native population of Europe continues the trend of shrinking birth rates and importation of low wage workers from Islamic countries that they cannot successfully assimilate (as has been proven repeatedly) then the problem will last until a tipping point of some sort is reached.

 

The problem is not the odd terrorist attack or in Islam itself, its the lack of a stable European identity that goes beyond "let's keep our wealthy status quo ad inifinitum". If Europeans knew who they were, positioning vis-a-vis Islam or any other entity would be much easier. The position of the great majority of muslims versus Europeans is fundamentally one of enmity based in religion. You can think what you like of that attitude, but its clear and logical. The position of Europe versus Islam is to ignore this aspect of muslim identity, create a separate category for the most combative ones ("extremists") thereby sweeping the problem under the rug and essentially pretending that nothing is happening. 

 

The European "solution" of expecting them all to become little secular Frenchmen and Germans, singing La Marseillaise and reading Goethe was a bit... presumptuous... to begin with.

 

I really wish you wouldn't make such negative posts....I don't believe a word of it but I'm worried you may exacerbate the tension that many of European members are feeling 

 

The Syrian refugees coming to Europe DOES NOT  represent some sort of clash of civilizations. But I will say this, I may even agree with you that perhaps Muslim countries do resent the West for some or other reason but the reality is you will not see some sort of Islamic conversion of Europe because the Muslim world is simply just not stronger or admired enough to influence this

 

Sorry to sound direct but thats why Europeans have nothing to fear...your ideology and culture cannot be conquered by someone weaker than you

 

Tell this to Romans...

 

 

 

 

 

Sure Paris attackers are next generation of imigrants, so we can expect same outcome of another generation of refuges?

You can expect the same outcome for as long as there are individuals who believe enough in Islam. And unlike the Soviet Union and its Baader-Meinhof types, jihadis of their era, you will not see Islam wither away in a few decades. At least for as long as the great majority of the masses that comprise the faith are inevitably poor (therefore difficult to seduce with a middle class hedonistic lifestyle), and in a constant state of population expansion (which ensures they stay relatively poor).

 

And if the native population of Europe continues the trend of shrinking birth rates and importation of low wage workers from Islamic countries that they cannot successfully assimilate (as has been proven repeatedly) then the problem will last until a tipping point of some sort is reached.

 

The problem is not the odd terrorist attack or in Islam itself, its the lack of a stable European identity that goes beyond "let's keep our wealthy status quo ad inifinitum". If Europeans knew who they were, positioning vis-a-vis Islam or any other entity would be much easier. The position of the great majority of muslims versus Europeans is fundamentally one of enmity based in religion. You can think what you like of that attitude, but its clear and logical. The position of Europe versus Islam is to ignore this aspect of muslim identity, create a separate category for the most combative ones ("extremists") thereby sweeping the problem under the rug and essentially pretending that nothing is happening.

 

The European "solution" of expecting them all to become little secular Frenchmen and Germans, singing La Marseillaise and reading Goethe was a bit... presumptuous... to begin with.

Truth to be told I can't blame them for not wanting to read Goethe

 

And yeah. We had plenty examples in history. Babylon, Egypt, Greece, Rome etc. With Rome being the best example as it ell to religious turmoils and barabrian invasions

 

Chilloutman and Dark

 

 

Can I ask you guys something....do you feel that with this influx of refugees coming to Europe that European culture is threatened? 

 

 

And do you draw comparisons between the EU now and Rome...in other  words the Romans also thought they would last forever ?

[Qistina]

All other terrorists will be happy because whatecver they do, the Muslims will be blamed....

[BruceVC]

All other terrorists will be happy because whatecver they do, the Muslims will be blamed....

I doubt that, do you think Muslims get blamed unfairly ?

[Chilloutman]

Chilloutman and Dark

 

 

Can I ask you guys something....do you feel that with this influx of refugees coming to Europe that European culture is threatened? 

 

 

And do you draw comparisons between the EU now and Rome...in other  words the Romans also thought they would last forever ?

1) not now but in lets say 20 years if cours will remain same

 

2) yes, they thought so (as every empire)

 

''Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.''

[Qistina]

 

All other terrorists will be happy because whatecver they do, the Muslims will be blamed....

I doubt that, do you think Muslims get blamed unfairly ?

 

 

Watch Fox News or CNN, when there is something blown up, the first question that come out is "do Muslims involved?". So now it is even easier to make Muslims the black sheep...anyone can wear the mask with some arabic words, shouting "Allahuakbar!!" then making crimes, caught on videos or CCTV, everyone will just assume "religion of peace strikes again!"...just admit such thing will happen...do you think criminals in the west won't think like that?

Edited November 23, 2015 by Qistina

[Gfted1]

...do you think criminals in the west won't think like that?

I checked with the Illuminati and they told me that's not true.

[Qistina]

Like i mentioned in the other post, what you guys really need is Islamic scholar of your own people, there are many western Muslims as i know, many white Muslims, send them to learn about religion to a point they can be Islamic scholars. All the problem with Muslims will be solved. What happen now is the clash of culture, that's all.

 

Admit it, western people see "Muslim" as "Eastern"...this is the core problem. I admit Muslims are to be blamed because we love to importing our own culture and customs into religion in which making confusion to western people. Most of things attribute to Islam and Muslims are actually masked by culture, not really religion itself.

 

So when we say "Muslim" what comes to western people mind is "Middle Eastern" or "Pakistan" or "Afghanistan"...and your media doesn't helping to clear the matter because of being political bitch supporting war on Middle East...in anyway, the struggle toward Muslims is only about culture

 

You have no problem with Jews because they are so mixed up with western culture, truely you can't tell a person is a Jew in Europe or America because they look like any other Europeans or Americans, you only know if they admit it or going into their home and seeing Jewish stuff...this is because the Jews have been so long in Europe and mix with you. You don't bother them anymore, unlike in medieval time

 

So now, the problem of the west toward Muslims is just cultural, you don't want to be look like eastern people, you don't want your precious culture replaced by alien culture. This is western attitude. In contra, eastern people are welcoming western cultures...eastern people today are westernized, not like original anymore....

Edited November 23, 2015 by Qistina

[Blarghagh]

I believe there was an attempt to exterminate them about 60 years ago, so I'd say "no problem with Jews since medieval time" is an overstatement.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

Threadly reminder the Irish are behind this.

[Qistina]

I already share much about my country, my people, the changes of my poeple throughout history....from ancient time to modern...you guys have mind surely you guys can see how eastern changed...my people don't look like what we are 100 years ago, 50 years ago...but western people don't change much, because you guys refuse to change. Eastern people today wear T-Shirt, tie, coat, blouse, gown, skirt...but do we ever see western people wear kimono, sari, baju kurung...? Of course some of you do but it is not universally...western clothing is eastern clothing now...do you ever think why? It is because eastern peoples are open minded actually...

 

Eastern people also enjoy jazz, rock, metal, and whatever the western music come out with it's full packages, for example metal fans in the east will look the same like metal fans in the west....but do western people enjoy darbouka, gamelan, keronchong, oriental music...and all it's packages? No...some of you maybe but not universally.

 

You see here how western peoples are actually degenerated? You are so proud of yourself and refuse to change, this will be your downfall...in contra, eastern people learn so much about you and benefit from it, this is our strength, this will make us rise....the future belong to Asia...

Edited November 23, 2015 by Qistina

[Drowsy Emperor]

 

 

Sure Paris attackers are next generation of imigrants, so we can expect same outcome of another generation of refuges?

You can expect the same outcome for as long as there are individuals who believe enough in Islam. And unlike the Soviet Union and its Baader-Meinhof types, jihadis of their era, you will not see Islam wither away in a few decades. At least for as long as the great majority of the masses that comprise the faith are inevitably poor (therefore difficult to seduce with a middle class hedonistic lifestyle), and in a constant state of population expansion (which ensures they stay relatively poor).

 

And if the native population of Europe continues the trend of shrinking birth rates and importation of low wage workers from Islamic countries that they cannot successfully assimilate (as has been proven repeatedly) then the problem will last until a tipping point of some sort is reached.

 

The problem is not the odd terrorist attack or in Islam itself, its the lack of a stable European identity that goes beyond "let's keep our wealthy status quo ad inifinitum". If Europeans knew who they were, positioning vis-a-vis Islam or any other entity would be much easier. The position of the great majority of muslims versus Europeans is fundamentally one of enmity based in religion. You can think what you like of that attitude, but its clear and logical. The position of Europe versus Islam is to ignore this aspect of muslim identity, create a separate category for the most combative ones ("extremists") thereby sweeping the problem under the rug and essentially pretending that nothing is happening.

 

The European "solution" of expecting them all to become little secular Frenchmen and Germans, singing La Marseillaise and reading Goethe was a bit... presumptuous... to begin with.

Truth to be told I can't blame them for not wanting to read Goethe

 

And yeah. We had plenty examples in history. Babylon, Egypt, Greece, Rome etc. With Rome being the best example as it ell to religious turmoils and barabrian invasions

 

 

 

Its more akin to christianity taking over Rome than anything else. The clash of a culturally unfocused and weak civilization with a monotheistic religion of the underdogs, but bizarrely, without the Roman oppression and a much more combative opponent.

 

Blindly copying USA's "melting pot" model doesn't work in the EU because European countries simply don't have USA's vicious police control and a very focused upper class, that although lacking in real culture, still has a very clear idea of what its doing and how to achieve it. When the upper circles in the US felt threatened by anything from the workers movement to the black panthers they identified the threat and dealt with it mercilessly from the very start. Every single method was legitimate and used, right down to assassination, or using the army to intervene on the other side of the world. 

 

The EU refuses to recognize the threat and develop means of dealing with it and therefore is only there to pick up the pieces when something like this happens. 

Edited November 23, 2015 by Drowsy Emperor