Attacks in Paris

[Sakai]

You must be especially short sighted. What do you think would have happened in other Russian islamic regions if Chechens weren't beaten down?

Exactly nothing.

[Drowsy Emperor]

 

You must be especially short sighted. What do you think would have happened in other Russian islamic regions if Chechens weren't beaten down?

Exactly nothing.

 

 

Political aptitude test score: 0.

[Qistina]

Immigration is a way from 'someone in the dark" or who-must-not-be-named, to destabilized any country. It is an easiest way to destabilized a country.

 

Like i mentioned above, my country is a Muslm country, but we don't accept Rohingya refugees even though they are Muslims. Being in the same religion doesn't mean we are the same. They might don't know how Muslims in Malaysia deal with non-Muslim Malaysians, there could be conflicts. The one who drove them out are Burmese Buddhist, Malaysian have Buddhists, there could be a conflict from them toward Malaysian Buddhist. They also could be from different sect, having different interpretation of religion, we already have heavy religious debates among ourselves, adding more is bad.

 

We have unemployed, they could filled up jobs by greedy employers who want cheap labors. They will add more Malaysian unemployments. Employers sure want to take advantage by paying cheap to these immigrants and don't want any responsibility. If taking Malaysians they have to pay more, and there are workers laws and so on...

 

They could also become Malaysians or married with Malaysians, making them have a right to vote...political parties may take advantage demand them to vote. This will change political wave in Malaysia. Political parties are already cheating in general election...immigrants will add more corruption...

 

They could open shop and start their own industries, killing local industries...

 

They could also bring disease we don't know about, bacteria or viruses, these could mutate becoming something else...

 

So even though those refugees are Muslims, my country don't allow them in, we can only aid them outside our border, but that's all

Edited November 15, 2015 by Qistina

[Sakai]

Political aptitude test score: 0.

Please tell me more what would happen in my own country, because i obviously don't know anything about it.

Edited November 15, 2015 by Sakai

[BruceVC]

 

Do you guys remember the Rohingya refugees? Burma kick them out, and they are forced to go here in SEA, because it is assumed we are Muslims and we will accept them... but my country don't accept them even they are Muslims...why? Because of security and it is international political game...

 

Someone force them here to destabilize SEA countries...the Turk who took them refuge...

 

When immigrants are too many, it will destabilize everything... economically, politically, religion, safety, dseases and many uncalculated problems....so even they are Muslims, my country don't accept them...

 

What we can do is help them to what they need outside our border, but they have to go back to their country

 

and this is the view people in EU should have as well. Help them THERE, not keep them flowing into own countries.

 

 

I was wondering if anyone would comment on this 

 

The reality is the EU and the West has a very different view on what is considered acceptable conduct around human rights...what Malaysia did would be considered by many Europeans probably illegal and a flagrant violation of human rights

 

Now yes sometimes the West and the EU becomes a a victim of its own attempt to enforce its own rules....the rules become more important than the social impact to its own citizens. But this is more the occasional decision than the norm

 

And I think we should be proud of the way places like the EU believe in certain values 

[Drowsy Emperor]

 

Political aptitude test score: 0.

Please tell me more what would happen in my own country, because i obviously don't know anything about it.

 

 

If you think that Chechnya achieving independence under the guise of Islamic liberation would have had no effect on other homogenous islamic regions then you have no idea how politics work, and those principles apply not only to Russia, but anywhere else. 

[BruceVC]

 

Political aptitude test score: 0.

Please tell me more what would happen in my own country, because i obviously don't know anything about it.

 

Before you continue please understand Drowsy is Serbian and is much more critical of Muslims than most people as Serbia has had its own chaotic and badly handled experiences with Muslims 

 

So you can't expect him to really support Muslim refugees or support the idea of Muslims being militant in parts of the world as to be fair to Serbia historically they have been treated quite badly by Muslim powers, like the Ottomans so he just sees the negative 

[Darkpriest]

 

 

Do you guys remember the Rohingya refugees? Burma kick them out, and they are forced to go here in SEA, because it is assumed we are Muslims and we will accept them... but my country don't accept them even they are Muslims...why? Because of security and it is international political game...

 

Someone force them here to destabilize SEA countries...the Turk who took them refuge...

 

When immigrants are too many, it will destabilize everything... economically, politically, religion, safety, dseases and many uncalculated problems....so even they are Muslims, my country don't accept them...

 

What we can do is help them to what they need outside our border, but they have to go back to their country

 

and this is the view people in EU should have as well. Help them THERE, not keep them flowing into own countries.

 

 

I was wondering if anyone would comment on this 

 

The reality is the EU and the West has a very different view on what is considered acceptable conduct around human rights...what Malaysia did would be considered by many Europeans probably illegal and a flagrant violation of human rights

 

Now yes sometimes the West and the EU becomes a a victim of its own attempt to enforce its own rules....the rules become more important than the social impact to its own citizens. But this is more the occasional decision than the norm

 

And I think we should be proud of the way places like the EU believe in certain values 

 

 

There is nothing of being proud in stupidity. But then again by default democracy is the rule of stupid, as there are more stupid people in any given population than the smart ones.

 

Ironically the same people might actually help EU, once they will be voting against open borders for "refugees"

 

Do you say to a crack junkie when he injects stuff into his veins that he does well as he feels well for a moment, or are you concerned about his general health condition and send him to a painful rehab before he collapses?

Edited November 15, 2015 by Darkpriest

[Drowsy Emperor]

@ BruceVC 

 

Please don't tell me how I feel and refrain from commenting on anything on I write if at all possible. 

Edited November 15, 2015 by Drowsy Emperor

[Qistina]

 

 

Do you guys remember the Rohingya refugees? Burma kick them out, and they are forced to go here in SEA, because it is assumed we are Muslims and we will accept them... but my country don't accept them even they are Muslims...why? Because of security and it is international political game...

 

Someone force them here to destabilize SEA countries...the Turk who took them refuge...

 

When immigrants are too many, it will destabilize everything... economically, politically, religion, safety, dseases and many uncalculated problems....so even they are Muslims, my country don't accept them...

 

What we can do is help them to what they need outside our border, but they have to go back to their country

 

and this is the view people in EU should have as well. Help them THERE, not keep them flowing into own countries.

 

 

I was wondering if anyone would comment on this 

 

The reality is the EU and the West has a very different view on what is considered acceptable conduct around human rights...what Malaysia did would be considered by many Europeans probably illegal and a flagrant violation of human rights

 

Now yes sometimes the West and the EU becomes a a victim of its own attempt to enforce its own rules....the rules become more important than the social impact to its own citizens. But this is more the occasional decision than the norm

 

And I think we should be proud of the way places like the EU believe in certain values 

 

 

 

Human Right is western creation, but i don't against it, by the way Malaysia is UN member and we practice Human Right

 

But we are not fools...we know there is something fishy behind those refugees problem...first of all, why no one make a noise about it? Western people always make a noice about "Muslim Terrorists", now we never heard about "Burmese Buddhist Terrorist"...those Rohingya being wiped out from Burma and no one bat an eye...

 

What UN is doing? Nothing...

Edited November 15, 2015 by Qistina

[Sakai]

Before you continue please understand Drowsy is Serbian and is much more critical of Muslims than most people as Serbia has had its own chaotic and badly handled experiences with Muslims 

 

 

So you can't expect him to really support Muslim refugees or support the idea of Muslims being militant in parts of the world as to be fair to Serbia historically they have been treated quite badly by Muslim powers, like the Ottomans so he just sees the negative 

I see. Though i absolutely can expect him, or anyone else, to be reasonable. For example i know very well what it's like to be afraid to be blown by a suicide bomber. Still, i would never blame ~15 million russian muslims for actions of extremists. Bad experiences are no excuse for hate and intolerance.

[Qistina]

All i can say is UN is a failed body, also biased...all these problems can be solved but they don't want to...heck, my country have MALBATT, a UN force, and active...why don't send us wipe out ISIS?

 

Pakistan also have UN army, there are many Muslim UN army, why not give us the order, send us into Syria and many other places to wipe out these "Muslim Terrorists"? Why UN silence?

 

Because UN is backing USA with whatever USA agenda on Middle East....and the incoming war with Russia-China-Iran....

Edited November 15, 2015 by Qistina

[BruceVC]

@ BruceVC 

 

Please don't tell me how I feel and refrain from commenting on anything on I write if at all possible. 

No I was talking to someone else about your opinion  and unless there is a forum rule about this I will continue. You make very serious points about Muslims and you ignore my questions to you, thats fine but now you wonder why I make assumptions about your views. My advice is try to be a little more mature about a debate, try to respond when people ask you a question and then you won't find people misunderstanding you 

[Ineth]

All religion including athiesm is EVIL.

 

 

 

Just reminded myself that in Singapore you get caned for throwing chewing gum on the street.

 

I was there, and loved that there was nowhere any garbage lying around. I seriously wish, that something like that, would be enforced in my country and in many EU countries, which I've visited as well...

 

 

I would be interested to hear your honest opinion on when you think, was the last time the west really successfully interfered in other countries affair, without turning them into utter political mess and hotbed for extremism.

 

Do these count?

• Defeated the Nazis and Imperial Japan --> Germany and Japan became modern liberal democracies and allies.

   

• Defended South Korea from Communism --> South Korea became a modern liberal democracy and ally. (Look at North Korea to get an impression of what it would have otherwise become.)

   

• Deterred China from invading Taiwan --> Taiwan became a modern liberal democracy and ally.

   

• Put a stop to Soviet expansionism and supported democracy/freedom movements in the Eastern Block --> The Soviet Union is gone and countries like Poland and the Czech Republic have become modern liberal democracies and allies.

[BruceVC]

All i can say is UN is a failed body, also biased...all these problems can be solved but they don't want to...heck, my country have MALBATT, a UN force, and active...why don't send use wipe out ISIS?

 

Pakistan also have UN army, there are many Muslim UN army, why not give us the order, send us into Syria and many other places to wipe out these "Muslim Terrorists"? Why UN silence?

 

Because UN is backing USA with whatever USA agenda on Middle East....and the incoming war with Russia-China-Iran....

No my dear what you just posted may seem reasonable but its not accurate and I'll explain why.....by the way many people have your view on UN

 

For the UN to send troops to a place like Syria or any conflict there has to be no Veto, which is a vote, from the 5 permanent members of the United Nations Security Council. So for example if  even one of the following countries  USA, UK, France , China or Russia say No then this automatically means  No for the whole possible UN military intervention 

 

 

What happened in the Syrian conflict in the beginning is there was disagreement on who was in the wrong. Russia and others supported Assad while most of the West felt Assad was a brutal dictator who has quite prepared to commit his own military to annihilate his own people just to stay in power or not implement any political reform ...I share this view

 

So the UN could never had a successful vote because the permanent members had a fundamental different view on who a UN military force would be supporting if they went into Syria   

[Guard Dog]

All i can say is UN is a failed body, also biased...all these problems can be solved but they don't want to

While I agree with this statement the problems of having a broken UN far outweigh the problems of no UN at all. The truth is most world problems solve themselves one way or another given enough time so the biggest benefit the UN provides is to stabilize things and delay rash action until they do. It is not a governing body and holds no power over sovereign states and was never meant to. It is a speed bump. Sometimes a speed bump is just what is needed. The Syrian civil war and the mess it has caused coupled with the invasion of Iraq and the mess THAT has caused are not going to solve themselves. It's fair to say the UN has failed to slow down or mitigate the problem but it's successes (within the context of it's ability) outweigh it's failures over the years.

[Darkpriest]

@Qistina

 

Out of curiosity, i wonder how would someone like me be viewed in your society. I wonder, because so far I have all primary muslim countries out of my "have been to" list, but internal curiosity and drive to meet new cultures at their place is pushing me towards them.

 

I am personally an agnostic, I cannot say for sure that god does not exist or that the god does exist. Logically it seems that there is something greater out there, as a theory that everything is a result of a random chance is a bit odd. After all these "random chances" occur within a certain defined spectrum that has a definite order, we are talking here about physics and chemistry, but is this "order" also purely random?

 

I do have my own moral compas and I do not follow and never will follow any cult. While I respect various views, I will not be tolerant towards warmongering based on following a certain cult of behaviors. After all, can you 100% say that your cult is right? what if another is? what if none is and people are being mislead by wrong interpretations all along?

 

Would a person like me be accepted or shunned and trialed in front of a court?

Edited November 15, 2015 by Darkpriest

[Qistina]

 

All i can say is UN is a failed body, also biased...all these problems can be solved but they don't want to...heck, my country have MALBATT, a UN force, and active...why don't send use wipe out ISIS?

 

Pakistan also have UN army, there are many Muslim UN army, why not give us the order, send us into Syria and many other places to wipe out these "Muslim Terrorists"? Why UN silence?

 

Because UN is backing USA with whatever USA agenda on Middle East....and the incoming war with Russia-China-Iran....

No my dear what you just posted may seem reasonable but its not accurate and I'll explain why.....by the way many people have your view on UN

 

For the UN to send troops to a place like Syria or any conflict there has to be no Veto, which is a vote, from the 5 permanent members of the United Nations Security Council. So for example if  even one of the following countries  USA, UK, France , China or Russia say No then this automatically means  No for the whole possible UN military intervention 

 

 

What happened in the Syrian conflict in the beginning is there was disagreement on who was in the wrong. Russia and others supported Assad while most of the West felt Assad was a brutal dictator who has quite prepared to commit his own military to annihilate his own people just to stay in power or not implement any political reform ...I share this view

 

So the UN could never had a successful vote because the permanent members had a fundamental different view on who a UN military force would be supporting if they went into Syria   

 

 

ISIS are not Syrians, they are from all the world who joined them, the same with FSA and Al Qaeda. In fact ISIS was FSA and Al Qaeda, they combined becoming ISIS. They only appear after USA attack Iraq and leave. ISIS are not Iraqis either. They are deuchbags, criminals, rapists, robbers, murderers and what not. You see, when USA attack Iraq, just imagine how many getting out from local prisons? And how many Muslim criminals running away from their countries to join them? These islamists groups giving refuge, that's why they are brutal, have no humanity, insane...they are also take drugs...

 

You know, i was about to be recruited by Al Qaeda, i speak the truth, they use internet, they want Asian Muslim women to join them, well you know why...but i am not a fool...i was active on You Tube back then, i play along, getting into their webs, i know how they recruit Muslims especially women...i don't want to expose all here but i can say for Muslim women they can be charming fellows with sweet talks...then they will introduce us into their hive group of sisters...these sisters act like fantasy sisters, because real sisters are not like them...they will take care, listen to our problems, and on and on...the guys will act like they are most religious Muslim ever and giving advices...suffice to say they give an escape for a Muslim girl to go out from this cruel world we are living in...then they slowly inducing their twisted ideology....they will look on us if we can be lured further into their ring or not...i tell you, they will hunt us if we back off...they know our numbers, know we live, they even interfere with our social life...but i manage to get away...and i save some sisters...

 

Anyway, as i mentioned it is not a simple matter, ISIS and such groups are the physical ones, they are armed group, but what more dangerous is their ideology, and this infiltrating the religion, even effecting scholars...the key person in ISIS and such group are of course mercenaries, but the ones who become their cows and sheeps are gullible Muslims...no Muslims will joined them if not because of being indoctrinated by their ideology...you may think you know evgerything about them, you don't, ISIS is just one branch of hooligans, but the most dangerous thing is these twisted ideologies they spread through spies and through what i reveal above...

 

There are groups not armed but carrying this ideology, and they appear like non-offesive, but their goal is to overthrow governments, they need the people of any governments overthrow their own governments, then groups like ISIS will come in and do the rest of things. That what happen in Libya, Syria and the rest....Who want to overthrow governments really? Ask yourself who gain from all these? Not ISIS, not Al Qaeda, not any Muslim Terrorists, not even Muslims gain any profit out of this....

 

That question answering the question of why UN silence all these time.....

[Qistina]

@Qistina

 

Out of curiosity, i wonder how would someone like me be viewed in your society. I wonder, because so far I have all primary muslim countries out of my "have been to" list, but internal curiosity and drive to meet new cultures at their place is pushing me towards them.

 

I am personally an agnostic, I cannot say for sure that god does not exist or that the god does exist. Logically it seems that there is something greater out there, as a theory that everything is a result of a random chance is a bit odd. After all these "random chances" occur within a certain defined spectrum that has a definite order, we are talking here about physics and chemistry, but is this "order" also purely random?

 

I do have my own moral compas and I do not follow and never will follow any cult. While I respect various views, I will not be tolerant towards warmongering based on following a certain cult of behaviors. After all, can you 100% say that your cult is right? what if another is? what if none is and people are being mislead by wrong interpretations all along?

 

Would a person like me be accepted or shunned and trialed in front of a court?

 

Well, you are a foreigner, if you come here bring money, we accept you as tourist...no problem at all

 

You being agnostic or atheist doesn't matter, you come here, spending your money, we will welcome you like kings

[BruceVC]

 

 

All i can say is UN is a failed body, also biased...all these problems can be solved but they don't want to...heck, my country have MALBATT, a UN force, and active...why don't send use wipe out ISIS?

 

Pakistan also have UN army, there are many Muslim UN army, why not give us the order, send us into Syria and many other places to wipe out these "Muslim Terrorists"? Why UN silence?

 

Because UN is backing USA with whatever USA agenda on Middle East....and the incoming war with Russia-China-Iran....

No my dear what you just posted may seem reasonable but its not accurate and I'll explain why.....by the way many people have your view on UN

 

For the UN to send troops to a place like Syria or any conflict there has to be no Veto, which is a vote, from the 5 permanent members of the United Nations Security Council. So for example if  even one of the following countries  USA, UK, France , China or Russia say No then this automatically means  No for the whole possible UN military intervention 

 

 

What happened in the Syrian conflict in the beginning is there was disagreement on who was in the wrong. Russia and others supported Assad while most of the West felt Assad was a brutal dictator who has quite prepared to commit his own military to annihilate his own people just to stay in power or not implement any political reform ...I share this view

 

So the UN could never had a successful vote because the permanent members had a fundamental different view on who a UN military force would be supporting if they went into Syria   

 

 

ISIS are not Syrians, they are from all the world who joined them, the same with FSA and Al Qaeda. In fact ISIS was FSA and Al Qaeda, they combined becoming ISIS. They only appear after USA attack Iraq and leave. ISIS are not Iraqis either. They are deuchbags, criminals, rapists, robbers, murderers and what not. You see, when USA attack Iraq, just imagine how many getting out from local prisons? And how many Muslim criminals running away from their countries to join them? These islamists groups giving refuge, that's why they are brutal, have no humanity, insane...they are also take drugs...

 

You know, i was about to be recruited by Al Qaeda, i speak the truth, they use internet, they want Asian Muslim women to join them, well you know why...but i am not a fool...i was active on You Tube back then, i play along, getting into their webs, i know how they recruit Muslims especially women...i don't want to expose all here but i can say for Muslim women they can be charming fellows with sweet talks...then they will introduce us into their hive group of sisters...these sisters act like fantasy sisters, because real sisters are not like them...they will take care, listen to our problems, and on and on...the guys will act like they are most religious Muslim ever and giving advices...suffice to say they give an escape for a Muslim girl to go out from this cruel world we are living in...then they slowly inducing their twisted ideology....they will look on us if we can be lured further into their ring or not...i tell you, they will hunt us if we back off...they know our numbers, know we live, they even interfere with our social life...but i manage to get away...and i save some sisters...

 

Anyway, as i mentioned it is not a simple matter, ISIS and such groups are the physical ones, they are armed group, but what more dangerous is their ideology, and this infiltrating the religion, even effecting scholars...the key person in ISIS and such group are of course mercenaries, but the ones who become their cows and sheeps are gullible Muslims...no Muslims will joined them if not because of being indoctrinated by their ideology...you may think you know evgerything about them, you don't, ISIS is just one branch of hooligans, but the most dangerous thing is these twisted ideologies they spread through spies and through what i reveal above...

 

There are groups not armed but carrying this ideology, and they appear like non-offesive, but their goal is to overthrow governments, they need the people of any governments overthrow their own governments, then groups like ISIS will come in and do the rest of things. That what happen in Libya, Syria and the rest....Who want to overthrow governments really? Ask yourself who gain from all these? Not ISIS, not Al Qaeda, not any Muslim Terrorists, not even Muslims gain any profit out of this....

 

That question answering the question of why UN silence all these time.....

 

Oh no....you cannot possibly think the West is behind ISIS ....please tell me you dont think that?

[Mamoulian War]

<p>

 

All religion including athiesm is EVIL.

 

 

Just reminded myself that in Singapore you get caned for throwing chewing gum on the street.

I was there, and loved that there was nowhere any garbage lying around. I seriously wish, that something like that, would be enforced in my country and in many EU countries, which I've visited as well...

I would be interested to hear your honest opinion on when you think, was the last time the west really successfully interfered in other countries affair, without turning them into utter political mess and hotbed for extremism.

Do these count?

• Defeated the Nazis and Imperial Japan --> Germany and Japan became modern liberal democracies and allies.
• Defended South Korea from Communism --> South Korea became a modern liberal democracy and ally. (Look at North Korea to get an impression of what it would have otherwise become.)
• Deterred China from invading Taiwan --> Taiwan became a modern liberal democracy and ally.
• Put a stop to Soviet expansionism and supported democracy/freedom movements in the Eastern Block --> The Soviet Union is gone and countries like Poland and the Czech Republic have become modern liberal democracies and allies.

I am from Slovakia. You have absolutely no clue what happened in 1989, so please don't try to teach me how the allmighty west saved me from Soviet oppresion...

 

I consider myself as an proud European, but I am not blind to how corrupt is power in today's West, as much as my family were not blind how corrupted was power in Soviet Union. My family was forced to move by our government across Czechoslovakia because of their religion. My grand dad ended up in jail, because he did not wanted to convert himself to orthodox christianty, which was only allowed reliogion here at that time.

 

It took 18 years to rebuild Slovakia after 1989 so that the people would get the same real income as they had in 80s.

 

In 2015 the real average income in Slovakia is 13% above real income in 1989. But 57% of the population never had income at the level of average income. So statisticaly approximately 40% of our people have worse living standard than they had during period of Communism in 80's. So please excuse these people if they do not give a single flying **** about how all mighty west helped them to embrace the democracy.

 

That being said. The 1989 coup in Czechoslovakia was executed by the technocratic communists who were fed up with the unability of the communist party to engage more into "free trade". The idea about the coup was nice, but in the coming 26 years, Slovakia has became the most corrupt country in the European Union and is currently being controlled by 5 people. Mr. Siroky, Mr. Hascak, Mr. Brhel, Mr. Vyboh and Mr. Tkac. These 5 people became multi billionaiers with the help of Slovak government in the last 26 years by actively promoting corruption and funneling the Eurofunds into their Cyprus and Belize accounts through various off-shore companies which are chosen without real competition to win state tenders. No one in the west gives a **** that these 5 people are stealing their money from their own taxes. All they care about, is getting cut costs for their companies so they can enjoy our cheap labour and not need to employ much costlier German, French, British labour.

 

So once again, please excuse all those people having in 21st century in European Union monthly income at the level around 500 EUR to give a single flying **** about how you "perfect" westerner brought them democracy. Because every year is this way stolen more than 3 billion of EUR from the taxes of whole european union citizens just in Slovakia.

 

Thank you.

Edited November 15, 2015 by Mamoulian War

[Qistina]

 

Oh no....you cannot possibly think the West is behind ISIS ....please tell me you dont think that?

 

 

No, not the west, they have no country, no race, no nationality...i think you can guest...the eye...

 

But i can tell you this, it will be either before or after 2020...

[Darkpriest]

@Bruce

 

Not directly, but we certainly screwed up middle east and north Africa to give a nice feeding and growing ground for such organizations...

 

Imagine if we did not touch Saddam's iraq, Gaddafi's Libya, Assad's Syria, etc. there would be no ISIS, EVER. We would have no refugee problems.

 

On another note, if EU was smart 30-50y ago about immigrants from North Africa and ME we would not have ghettos, assimilation problems, etc.

 

Economic need for cheap work force drove those decisions and now you have problems with communities alienating themselves from the State/Nation they live in.

[Qistina]

You might laughed and taking what i wrote as 'conspiracy theory", but my prohet already talking about what those crazy conspiracy teorists are talking about...they are called "Khawarij"...and they are the agent of The Anti-Christ or we called Al Masih Dajjal, or the One Eyed Messiah

 

[BruceVC]

 

<p>

All religion including athiesm is EVIL.

 

Just reminded myself that in Singapore you get caned for throwing chewing gum on the street.

I was there, and loved that there was nowhere any garbage lying around. I seriously wish, that something like that, would be enforced in my country and in many EU countries, which I've visited as well...

I would be interested to hear your honest opinion on when you think, was the last time the west really successfully interfered in other countries affair, without turning them into utter political mess and hotbed for extremism.

Do these count?

• Defeated the Nazis and Imperial Japan --> Germany and Japan became modern liberal democracies and allies.
• Defended South Korea from Communism --> South Korea became a modern liberal democracy and ally. (Look at North Korea to get an impression of what it would have otherwise become.)
• Deterred China from invading Taiwan --> Taiwan became a modern liberal democracy and ally.
• Put a stop to Soviet expansionism and supported democracy/freedom movements in the Eastern Block --> The Soviet Union is gone and countries like Poland and the Czech Republic have become modern liberal democracies and allies.

I am from Slovakia. You have absolutely no clue what happened in 1989, so please don't try to teach me how the allmighty west saved me from Soviet oppresion...

 

I consider myself as an proud European, but I am not blind to how corrupt is power in today's West, as much as my family were not blind how corrupted was power in Soviet Union. My family was forced to move by our government across Czechoslovakia because of their religion. My grand dad ended up in jail, because he did not wanted to convert himself to orthodox christianty, which was only allowed reliogion here at that time.

 

It took 18 years to rebuild Slovakia after 1989 so that the people would get the same real income as they had in 80s.

 

In 2015 the real average income in Slovakia is 13% above real income in 1989. But 57% of the population never had income at the level of average income. So statisticaly approximately 40% of our people have worse living standard than they had during period of Communism in 80's. So please excuse these people if they do not give a single flying **** about how all mighty west helped them to embrace the democracy.

 

That being said. The 1989 coup in Czechoslovakia was executed by the technocratic communists who were fed up with the unability of the communist party to engage more into "free trade". The idea about the coup was nice, but in the coming 26 years, Slovakia has became the most corrupt country in the European Union and is currently being controlled by 5 people. Mr. Siroky, Mr. Hascak, Mr. Brhel, Mr. Vyboh and Mr. Tkac. These 5 people became multi billionaiers with the help of Slovak government in the last 26 years by actively promoting corruption and funneling the Eurofunds into their Cyprus and Belize accounts through various off-shore companies which are chosen without real competition to win state tenders. No one in the west gives a **** that these 5 people are stealing their money from their own taxes. All they care about, is getting cut costs for their companies so they can enjoy our cheap labour and not need to employ much costlier German, French, British labour.

 

So once again, please excuse all those people having in 21st century in European Union monthly income at the level around 500 EUR to give a single flying **** about how you "perfect" westerner brought them democracy.

 

Thank you.

 

Mam I'm glad you made this post but I think you are being  a little critical towards Ineth...you asked me a question and he answered ...and now you don't like his answer

 

But if you had made this post before you asked that question it would definitely have changed how I would have responded to you because it adds important context about why you have certain issues with the West..and I understand now why  you do indeed question what the West does...but I need to explain a few things to you 

 

The West wasn't the reason that the USSR ultimately collapsed...the USSR was basically bankrupt and many people in the USSR came to the conclusion that Communism wasnt a sustainable ideology. What at the end had beaten the USSR and Red China IMO  wasn't necessarily a view that Western culture, military might or superior Western leaders were assumed to be better. it wasnt the fact that in the West people elected there leaders or had free press...it was the irrefutable fact that the free economic market is superior to one where a government tries to drive the economic growth. So the USSR could NEVER match the economic innovation or natural growth of the free market that exists in the West 

 

 

Now in the case of countries like Slovakia I can completely understand your frustration  because I see similar views in my own country where certain people are very unhappy about the state of the economic transformation and now question the success of our Democracy. The thing about the free market is it has be driven by people and the ideas need to make sense and really  be able to show profitability....and this isnt as easy as people may assume. I can also understand why this could have been very difficult for many Slovakian citizens  to understand and just automatically  adopt but to be fair no one ever said that Western  ideology would always work. It needs to be implemented   in a certain way with realistic expectations 

 

 

And to be honest, and you asked for brutal honesty but  I think  country your faces a much more difficult economic challenge. My aunt was married to  a Czech man and all my cousins speak Czech and understand Czech culture and go to Czech once a year to see there gran, so I was acutley aware that Slovakia was its own country. But I'm sure the majority of people in places like the USA probably wouldn't be aware of that, most people outside of the EU probably don't know that. But the fault isn't there's if we are honest, its not because people are being dismissive or malicious. Its really about the fact Slovakia needs to be able to distinguish itself economically....I'll be very honest I know very little about Slovakia

 

And yes the Free Market\Capitalism doesn't have a automatic way of addressing this as it  expects countries to always have ideas..but it won't remind or even ask. So what is Slovakia good at? Skilled but cheap labour ...thats a dogs game and becomes very difficult to be competitive when you have  the likes of India who have become the worlds largest exporter of qualified but cheap  skills. So you should find a product or series of business services that can successfully exported around the EU?

Edited November 15, 2015 by BruceVC