Attacks in Paris

[BruceVC]

 

what we actual said were the following:a muslim in malaysia can be executed for converting to christianity and celebrating christmas.

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/10/us-religion-atheists-idUSBRE9B900G20131210

 

and again, how can you be missing the point?  apostasy is not criminalized in the USA. loy would not need fight and lose her appeal.  she would not need go into hiding.  she could be whatever religion she so desired w/o fear o' criminalization.  

 

you suggest that western media is making malaysia look bad?  w/o the recent airline troubles, we suspect most westerners would have a hard time pinpointing malaysia on a map, and am certain most westerners is unaware o' the common freedoms they have that would be denied to them in malaysia.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Your media always makes other countries look bad, your movies too...according to your movies, Japanese love to cut off people head and going kamikaze, then they killed themselves in harakiri...Russian always big grumpy men talking simple broken English and dumb looking...Chinese are weird kinky people and militaristic communists...Vietnams are all bad and savages...Germans always have serious cold face and love to rant...Middle Easterners are dirty bearded angry looking people...and on and on and on...everyone are bad except you

 

Why would anyone want to listen to you and following your set of morality and laws? Iihave a country, I have my people, my culture, my religion, this is my land, the business of the people of my land is our business...so what is your problem with my land? Do i complaint about your land and your business?

 

Gromnir please don't respond to this

 

No Qistina that  is a very old way of how International  Western media operates. Nowadays they present a much more accurate and less generalized view of other cultures

 

Also its a global world that is interconnected so its very easy to research other cultures and not make assumptions like this

 

Also I don't mean to get involved in your and Gromnirs debate but you guys are both misunderstanding each other, Gromnir actually comes from a minority group in the USA. He is a Native American and he has personally been victim to real discrimination and bigotry from fellow Americans....so I can promise you he is not someone who thinks  the West is perfect. He is probably more aware of certain issues in Western countries that most of us have never encountered 

[Qistina]

When we talk about a country and it's people it is not as simple as Fox News, CNN and Hollywood...each countries and it's peoples have a long history, bad history, what we see today are just things of today, but what lead to what we see today? To simply judging and generalizing peoples or countries is the work of Fox News, CNN and Hollywood...

 

Do everybody know my land was like America before the western came? No one know isn't it? But today you see Malaysia, Indonesia, Brunei, Singapore as you can see on the map, do you guys know all these are one kingdom before the western people mess things up?

 

Western are conquerors, up to today the west did the same thing they did hundreds years ago, in a new form, in a new way. Thats why i am tired with all these bull**** about west vs islam, "muslim terrorism"...the thng is not simple. You guys see Islam, Christian, white, black, Arab, Asians....you guys don't see things behind these labels, the history, the cultural changes, the forming of nations, the conflict, the struggles...which lead to what we see today.

 

oh Muslims are bad, Islam is terrible religion...this kind of mentality is poor, just because Muslims in your country are mostly Arabs and Pakistani, doesn't means all Muslims look like them and doesn't mean all Muslims care about them at all. What do i care about muslims in other countries, i have my own problems, they are not my problems, as i am not their problem, and not your problem...as you don't care about Christians in other countries and what they are doing, that's how Muslims don't care about Muslims in your country and what they doing

 

Since when all Muslms become one entity? Since president George W Bush say so...

Edited November 15, 2015 by Qistina

[Volourn]

"You must have a religion to become Malaysian. It doesn't matter what religion, but you must believe in God. It is because when you say you belong to a religion you are bound to that religion morality, culture and way of life, which means you are not deuchbags, yes atheists are deuchbags. If you are Christian, i know you are bound to Christian morality, so it is easier to make business with, i mean i know where you stand. You don't have to be religious, but if there are problems with you we simply refer you to your priests and asking their opinions.

 

If you are an atheist it will be a problem. Malaysia a multicultural country, Malays are only 50% now and Muslims 60%."

 

EVIL.

 

 

"Your media always makes other countries look bad, your movies too...according to your movies, Japanese love to cut off people head and going kamikaze, then they killed themselves in harakiri...Russian always big grumpy men talking simple broken English and dumb looking...Chinese are weird kinky people and militaristic communists...Vietnams are all bad and savages...Germans always have serious cold face and love to rant...Middle Easterners are dirty bearded angry looking people...and on and on and on...everyone are bad except you"
 

Kidding right? Do you even watch Amerikan/Western movies or media? They go out of their way to make the West/US look bad. And, it is very legal to do so. In fact.  Ammerikans and otehrs make TONS of money   making the US look bad in film/media.

 

Ignorance and hatred are funny stuff.

 

Also, really love the not so subtle excuses for the poor put upon Muslims. Nobody ever shows such mercy for Christians/Catholics when they get trashed or stereotyped. Look at all the pedophile jokes Catholics ahve to suffer b/c an extreme minority are pigs. But, hey,  criticize Muslim and you are labeled evil. LMAO

 

All religion including athiesm is EVIL. It's ALL about power, control, and slavery.

 

  99.9% of people don't know what TRUE freedom is. :(

 

 

 

"Since president George W Bush say so..."

 

More ignorance on your part.    george W. Bush has NEVER  lumped peaceful/passive Muslims with extremists. In fact, his very first post 9/11 speech  made sure to clarify the difference. But, hey, you keep talking about media spin it seems you got brainwashed.

Edited November 15, 2015 by Volourn

[Qistina]

Kidding right? Do you even watch Amerikan/Western movies or media? They go out of their way to make the West/US look bad. And, it is very legal to do so. In fact.  Ammerikans and otehrs make TONS of money   making the US look bad in film/media.

 

 

how did i post here...i have internet...i do watch your movies, CNN, Fox news, Comedy Central, Jon Stewart and what not...?

 

Do you know how many active USA military bases around the world? i bet you don't know a ****

 

Do you know there is war going on in South China Sea now as we speak?

Edited November 15, 2015 by Qistina

[ManifestedISO]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gD7GJPgNn9I

[Qistina]

America and Europe are not the only country in the world, there are billions of peoples, and there are countries you don't even heard of. I bet you guys don't even know about my country until recently, but we know about you guys, i talk English no matter how broken it is, i know your customs, your religion, your politic, your history...i learn all these in schools and medias....i don't need to go to Europe and USA, i just sit here in my room and watch hundreds of documentaries about Europe and USA, or just watching your movies...do you guys know about my people, my language, my customs?

 

I know western people love to have parties....

 

Hell, i am playing your games...just name it...

 

What i am saying is western peoples today are ignorant and refuse to learn, that's why the media are easily fooling you guys....ironically, it is you guys who create the internet....

Edited November 15, 2015 by Qistina

[Meshugger]

America and Europe are not the only country in the world, there are billions of peoples, and there are countries you don't even heard of. I bet you guys don't even know about my country until recently, but we know about you guys, i talk English no matter how broken it is, i know your customs, your religion, your politic, your history...i learn all these in schools and medias....i don't need to go to Europe and USA, i just sit here in my room and watch hundreds of documentaries about Europe and USA, or just watching your movies...do you guys know about my people, my language, my customs?

 

I know western people love to have parties....

 

Hell, i am playing your games...just name it...

 

What i am saying is western peoples today are ignorant and refuse to learn, that's why the media are easily fooling you guys....ironically, it is you guys who create the internet....

 

If you think that nations of people can judged solely on what is portrayed in their media, then have some bad news for you buddy. 

[Sakai]

 

 

Come and live in peace until the dust settles in your homeland. But trying to integrate millions upon millions of middle eastern Islamists and have the audacity to claim that it is essential to the EU identity? **** you. 

These are people are running away from exactly the thing those terrorists represent. If they were "Islamists", why would they run?

 

 

No.

 

https://twitter.com/YanniKouts/status/665555110467084289

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2958517/The-Mediterranean-sea-chaos-Gaddafi-s-chilling-prophecy-interview-ISIS-threatens-send-500-000-migrants-Europe-psychological-weapon-bombed.html

 

Besides,

 

 

 

The big elephant in the room is that middle eastern Islam is tolerable in smaller numbers at best and totally incompatible with any core western values at worst. Temporal refugees? sure. Women and their children fleeing war? Come right in. Sexual and religious minorities like Sufis, Sikhs and Zoroastrians? Come and live in peace until the dust settles in your homeland. But trying to integrate millions upon millions of middle eastern Islamists and have the audacity to claim that it is essential to the EU identity? **** you. 

 

Read again.

 

So because of one syrian passport and an article in DailyMail you're willing to condemn millions of people? 

[Cantousent]

I'm not going to engage in the discussion about France or the attacks there. I think I need to try my best not to get involved in that discussion. ...But I will say this to you, Qistina: I have lived in Asia. I lived there for 1.5 years. I lived on Guam for 3 years. I've been to foreign countries and I have gone out of my way to respect them. I have gone out of my way to respect their customs. You, personally, are not the enemy and anyone who attacks you on a personal level will be censured by the mod team. I can attest to that.

 

...But the problem I can see in the world is the inclination to take attacks on ideas as attacks on our persons. I even see that in the United Sates. Such a stance is not right nor just. If your ideas, values, and beliefs are viable, then nothing can destroy them. I see people in other countries, and increasingly in our country, attacking people as a way to suppress ideas. It might work in the short term, but it can't work in the long term. At least I pray it can't. I didn't volunteer to serve my country in order to pave the way for people to feel 'safe' from offensive ideas. I've been faced with offensive ideas my whole life and I defy anyone to point to an example where I wanted to prevent someone from speaking his or her mind in public. Sure, I don't think that every message board or tv show should be required to represent your ideas, but I've never called for those ideas to be repressed in the public arena. ...And if I ever have, I would have been wrong.

 

Perikles, as described by Thucydides, tells us that all the world is a monument to dead men. We don't know their names. We don't know their nationality, background, lineage, or history. They are lost, unmourned, and unknown, but the ideas for which they fought is not lost. We may not honor their names, but we honor their beliefs. Let the battle of ideas take the place of oppression and all the world wins. Let oppression suppress ideas and all the world loses.

[Namutree]

 

Since when all Muslms become one entity? Since president George W Bush say so...

https://youtu.be/ygTbwGrTELc

[BruceVC]

I'm not going to engage in the discussion about France or the attacks there. I think I need to try my best not to get involved in that discussion. ...But I will say this to you, Qistina: I have lived in Asia. I lived there for 1.5 years. I lived on Guam for 3 years. I've been to foreign countries and I have gone out of my way to respect them. I have gone out of my way to respect their customs. You, personally, are not the enemy and anyone who attacks you on a personal level will be censured by the mod team. I can attest to that.

 

...But the problem I can see in the world is the inclination to take attacks on ideas as attacks on our persons. I even see that in the United Sates. Such a stance is not right nor just. If your ideas, values, and beliefs are viable, then nothing can destroy them. I see people in other countries, and increasingly in our country, attacking people as a way to suppress ideas. It might work in the short term, but it can't work in the long term. At least I pray it can't. I didn't volunteer to serve my country in order to pave the way for people to feel 'safe' from offensive ideas. I've been faced with offensive ideas my whole life and I defy anyone to point to an example where I wanted to prevent someone from speaking his or her mind in public. Sure, I don't think that every message board or tv show should be required to represent your ideas, but I've never called for those ideas to be repressed in the public arena. ...And if I ever have, I would have been wrong.

 

Perikles, as described by Thucydides, tells us that all the world is a monument to dead men. We don't know their names. We don't know their nationality, background, lineage, or history. They are lost, unmourned, and unknown, but the ideas for which they fought is not lost. We may not honor their names, but we honor their beliefs. Let the battle of ideas take the place of oppression and all the world wins. Let oppression suppress ideas and all the world loses.

Nice post Cant 

 

But maybe you should tell her you support the Republicans ....wait don't, ignore that please...lets not chase her away 

[Meshugger]

 

 

 

Come and live in peace until the dust settles in your homeland. But trying to integrate millions upon millions of middle eastern Islamists and have the audacity to claim that it is essential to the EU identity? **** you. 

These are people are running away from exactly the thing those terrorists represent. If they were "Islamists", why would they run?

 

 

No.

 

https://twitter.com/YanniKouts/status/665555110467084289

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2958517/The-Mediterranean-sea-chaos-Gaddafi-s-chilling-prophecy-interview-ISIS-threatens-send-500-000-migrants-Europe-psychological-weapon-bombed.html

 

Besides,

 

 

 

The big elephant in the room is that middle eastern Islam is tolerable in smaller numbers at best and totally incompatible with any core western values at worst. Temporal refugees? sure. Women and their children fleeing war? Come right in. Sexual and religious minorities like Sufis, Sikhs and Zoroastrians? Come and live in peace until the dust settles in your homeland. But trying to integrate millions upon millions of middle eastern Islamists and have the audacity to claim that it is essential to the EU identity? **** you. 

 

Read again.

 

So because of one syrian passport and an article in DailyMail you're willing to condemn millions of people? 

 

 

Either i have must've stricken a nerve or you are being deliberately daft.

[BruceVC]

America and Europe are not the only country in the world, there are billions of peoples, and there are countries you don't even heard of. I bet you guys don't even know about my country until recently, but we know about you guys, i talk English no matter how broken it is, i know your customs, your religion, your politic, your history...i learn all these in schools and medias....i don't need to go to Europe and USA, i just sit here in my room and watch hundreds of documentaries about Europe and USA, or just watching your movies...do you guys know about my people, my language, my customs?

 

I know western people love to have parties....

 

Hell, i am playing your games...just name it...

 

What i am saying is western peoples today are ignorant and refuse to learn, that's why the media are easily fooling you guys....ironically, it is you guys who create the internet....

Yes you right I know very little about Malaysian culture but I have traveled and worked extensively in the Middle East and I am confident that I could travel to Malaysia and not offend anyone and be able to work there

 

Also you mustn't think that just because your average Westerner doesn't know much about Malaysia its because they assume its some kind of backward, extremist place where groups like ISIS are influential . You see for us as Westerners  unless there is a logical reason to study the culture of a particular country there wouldn't be a point ....so its not personal. Its just that we tend to focus on countries that you may have  direct trade with or an economic connection or a real relationship with. 

 

So what I'm really saying its not just a country like Malaysia that your average Westerner knows nothing about, this is true to many African or South American countries unless you interact with them. 

 

But I can understand why you may want to know more about Westerner culture...I think its great because I think some people in the Muslim world have certain negative views of the West and we need to change this 

[Sakai]

 

Either i have must've stricken a nerve or you are being deliberately daft.

Lol. No, it's just that i don't equate people who practice Islam with "islamists". http://pressa.today/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Miting_musulman_v_Moskve_25_janvarja.jpg This is what happenes every year in Moscow, and yet somehow the city is still standing.

[Hiro Protagonist]

 

 

 

Some of you are big Snowden admirers : http://news.yahoo.com/paris-attacks-show-u-s--surveillance-of-islamic-state-may-be--going-dark-203103709.html# We should also thank Apple and Google for not cooperating with the government any more.

Oh yeah, let's turn the whole west into the incarnation of 1984. I think Jefferson would be proud now...

Snowden is a traitor and betrayed his country.... and he did reveal how the NSA have the ability to monitor most social media so now maybe certain extremist groups may not use Facebook or Twitter as a way to communicate but I imagine this would have happened eventually so I don't think we can blame him for this ?

In EU he is considered a hero who did risk everything so others can still enjoy one of the basic human rights, which is right to privacy.

 

 

Snowden is just one of many things imo. With the recent laws introduced in Australia with data retention and other online laws being looked at, there's been a snowball effect and shift for a lot of people to share how to get around such laws, to hide who you are, your location, how to message anonymously and what you're viewing and downloading. There's a lot of guides on how to do this and many people (even news agencies) willing to share how. It's no reason why Intelligence agencies are having a hard time. There's a bit of irony there.

[Fighter]

Lol. No, it's just that i don't equate people who practice Islam with "islamists". http://pressa.today/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Miting_musulman_v_Moskve_25_janvarja.jpg This is what happenes every year in Moscow, and yet somehow the city is still standing.

 

This again. I am from Moscow and there isn't exactly a peaceful coexistence. Ticking bomb.

 

Edit:

 

This is how much respect they have for local laws.

 

Edited November 15, 2015 by Fighter

[Sakai]

This again. I am from Moscow and there isn't exactly a peaceful coexistence. Ticking bomb.

And what you're talking about has nothing to do with Islam but Chechnya, and the fact that it's ruled pretty much by a bunch of bandits, by people who faught against Russia. But sure, f it. Let's oversimplify everything and blame Islam for the incredibly complex issues happening around the world right now. That will surely solve every problem.

Edited November 15, 2015 by Sakai

[Qistina]

Nice post Cant 

 

 

But maybe you should tell her you support the Republicans ....wait don't, ignore that please...lets not chase her away 

 

 

Lol, American politic don't interest me, but American foreign policies do

 

America never have fair deal, no matter Republican or Democrat, though Democrat is more diplomatic, but they always hide a knife behind their smile...

 

 

 

America and Europe are not the only country in the world, there are billions of peoples, and there are countries you don't even heard of. I bet you guys don't even know about my country until recently, but we know about you guys, i talk English no matter how broken it is, i know your customs, your religion, your politic, your history...i learn all these in schools and medias....i don't need to go to Europe and USA, i just sit here in my room and watch hundreds of documentaries about Europe and USA, or just watching your movies...do you guys know about my people, my language, my customs?

 

I know western people love to have parties....

 

Hell, i am playing your games...just name it...

 

What i am saying is western peoples today are ignorant and refuse to learn, that's why the media are easily fooling you guys....ironically, it is you guys who create the internet....

Yes you right I know very little about Malaysian culture but I have traveled and worked extensively in the Middle East and I am confident that I could travel to Malaysia and not offend anyone and be able to work there

 

Also you mustn't think that just because your average Westerner doesn't know much about Malaysia its because they assume its some kind of backward, extremist place where groups like ISIS are influential . You see for us as Westerners  unless there is a logical reason to study the culture of a particular country there wouldn't be a point ....so its not personal. Its just that we tend to focus on countries that you may have  direct trade with or an economic connection or a real relationship with. 

 

So what I'm really saying its not just a country like Malaysia that your average Westerner knows nothing about, this is true to many African or South American countries unless you interact with them. 

 

But I can understand why you may want to know more about Westerner culture...I think its great because I think some people in the Muslim world have certain negative views of the West and we need to change this 

 

 

My people have no problem speaking English, it is one of our main subject in school, although not all are excellent in English, at worst most can understand but can't reply back in English, don't ever get fooled by Malaysians who pretend don't understand English, such as taxi drivers who want to con you...

 

I myself don't speak English in everyday life, just using English on internet. Once there was a British tourist, drunk, he ask me the way to money changer, i told him, but he's dead drunk to understand, so he pull out his wallet, give me his money and ask me to change it for him. If i am bad though i could just grab it and run away, but i am religious... so i refuse and leave him...

 

Malaysia was under British occupation, so western language and culture is not so foreign to us, but since 1980s it changed from British culture to American, English here also being Americanized, we are more accustom to American culture through the media, movies, games....i myself Americanized a bit you know, like most people do...i enjoyed Nirvana, Metallica, American music...i can play Nirvana songs with my guitar, in fact grunge was my identity when i was a teen

[Longknife]

 

America and Europe are not the only country in the world, there are billions of peoples, and there are countries you don't even heard of. I bet you guys don't even know about my country until recently, but we know about you guys, i talk English no matter how broken it is, i know your customs, your religion, your politic, your history...i learn all these in schools and medias....i don't need to go to Europe and USA, i just sit here in my room and watch hundreds of documentaries about Europe and USA, or just watching your movies...do you guys know about my people, my language, my customs?

 

I know western people love to have parties....

 

Hell, i am playing your games...just name it...

 

What i am saying is western peoples today are ignorant and refuse to learn, that's why the media are easily fooling you guys....ironically, it is you guys who create the internet....

 

If you think that nations of people can judged solely on what is portrayed in their media, then have some bad news for you buddy. 

 

 

I also feel like she/he's underestimating the education of western countries. The thought of someone never hearing about Malaysia is pretty strange to me. I mean if he/she was posting from Burkina Faso or something, ok, but Malaysia's not exactly an unheard of country.

 

 

But yeah, if anything all that post has showcased is that you've never left Malaysia, cause traveling to another country and experiencing it's culture firsthand is not even remotely close to what you'd experience watching documentaries. I also consider it a tad bit unfair to view it in a light of Western countries being inconsiderate or rude, as if they've no interest in learning about other countries while other countries make that effort. Nah, the simple answer is that some countries are "louder" than others and make those resources readily available while others do not; no one's at fault, though the disproportionate knowledge of various cultures is of course not ideal.

 

 

 

...But the problem I can see in the world is the inclination to take attacks on ideas as attacks on our persons. I even see that in the United Sates. Such a stance is not right nor just. If your ideas, values, and beliefs are viable, then nothing can destroy them.

 

 

If a man says "2 + 2 = 4" and you beat him up and kill him, this does not change that 2 + 2 does indeed = 4. Violence is just something ignorant ****s resort to, and sadly every country, culture and religion has it's fair share of ignorant ****s.

 

 

AND THAT'S WHY WAR....

 

WAR NEVER CHANGES.

[BruceVC]

 

 

Either i have must've stricken a nerve or you are being deliberately daft.

Lol. No, it's just that i don't equate people who practice Islam with "islamists". http://pressa.today/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Miting_musulman_v_Moskve_25_janvarja.jpg This is what happenes every year in Moscow, and yet somehow the city is still standing.

 

Sakai I agree with why you are asking Meshugger this...its valid your point but you are misunderstanding something that Meshugger is actually experiencing as a European but he isn't explaining to you 

 

So firstly these refugees are not just from Syria, we have Afghans, Pakistanis and I am embarrassed to admit this but 5-6 African countries also have  a steady stream of Africans who leave Africa and look for a better life in Europe 

 

When a country like Russia or South Africa says " we also have immigrants who come here " its not the same as the Europeans actually integrate these people into there societies meaning they will pay for housing, social grants and try very hard to provide jobs...but these immigrants become not only a real cost but a real social responsibility

 

But for example we do nothing  in South Africa to integrate the millions of economic migrants who arrive...they find there own housing and have to find there own jobs. We only care if they have a work permit, so we think we have a problem with migrants yet the reality is we are not doing anything for them.  I'm sure in Russia its the same, do you guys actually spend real government  time and resources trying to make sure " Chechen's  who arrive in Russia feel welcome " ?

 

So my point will take us back to the EU, why should we expect the citizens of the various EU countries to be happy to take in people from African countries like Sudan or Somalia when the African Union itself doesn't care if these people leave? This is a failure of the African Union to not take care of its own citizens. And the same logic applies to the refugees from the Middle East. Why aren't the countries like Saudi Arabia or UAE taking in fellow Muslims ....in fact none of the Sunni\Gulf countries are prepared to take in ONE Syrian....but we expect the average EU citizen to just be fine with this

 

And then finally you do have  a risk where some of these refugees may arrive in a place like Finland but not be able to find work so without a job they would never truly integrate . So then they will just end up living in these housing estates ...probably blaming Finland a little but also being happy to live off social grants because the reality at home is much worse. And you can understand how the thought of thousands of people  just living off social grants and never really contributing towards the economy is also an annoying concern. That to me is the real reason for this push back from Europeans and its understandable  

[Qistina]

Do you guys remember the Rohingya refugees? Burma kick them out, and they are forced to go here in SEA, because it is assumed we are Muslims and we will accept them... but my country don't accept them even they are Muslims...why? Because of security and it is international political game...

 

Someone force them here to destabilize SEA countries...the Turk who took them refuge...

 

When immigrants are too many, it will destabilize everything... economically, politically, religion, safety, dseases and many uncalculated problems....so even they are Muslims, my country don't accept them...

 

What we can do is help them to what they need outside our border, but they have to go back to their country

Edited November 15, 2015 by Qistina

[BruceVC]

 

This again. I am from Moscow and there isn't exactly a peaceful coexistence. Ticking bomb.

And what you're talking about has nothing to do with Islam but Chechnya, and the fact that it's ruled pretty much by a bunch of bandits, by people who faught against Russia. But sure, f it. Let's oversimplify everything and blame Islam for the incredibly complex issues happening around the world right now. That will surely solve every problem.

 

Yeah no offense Sakai but I didn't want to say this earlier  because I didnt want you to think I  was being critical about Russia but Russia has a very bad global view of how you treat Muslims and yes its because of Chechnya and places like Dagestan 

 

But I understand that Russia has a very different and militant history with Muslims and countries like Russia have decided that they won't be pressured into just accepting refugees from places like Pakistan

 

Now I don't agree with this  but I do see the Russian point...maybe its actually the way the EU should behave and just be much harder about refugees and what they can expect from immigrating?

 

The West sees this differently and believes to trying to absorb these people, I guess only time will tell

[Sakai]

Sakai I agree with why you are asking Meshugger this...its valid your point but you are misunderstanding something that Meshugger is actually experiencing as a European but he isn't explaining to you 

 

 

So firstly these refugees are not just from Syria, we have Afghans, Pakistanis and I am embarrassed to admit this but 5-6 African countries also have  a steady stream of Africans who leave Africa and look for a better life in Europe 

 

When a country like Russia or South Africa says " we also have immigrants who come here " its not the same as the Europeans actually integrate these people into there societies meaning they will pay for housing, social grants and try very hard to provide jobs...but these immigrants become not only a real cost but a real social responsibility

 

But for example we do nothing  in South Africa to integrate the millions of economic migrants who arrive...they find there own housing and have to find there own jobs. We only care if they have a work permit, so we think we have a problem with migrants yet the reality is we are not doing anything for them.  I'm sure in Russia its the same, do you guys actually spend real government  time and resources trying to make sure " Chechen's  who arrive in Russia feel welcome " ?

 

So my point will take us back to the EU, why should we expect the citizens of the various EU countries to be happy to take in people from African countries like Sudan or Somalia when the African Union itself doesn't care if these people leave? This is a failure of the African Union to not take care of its own citizens. And the same logic applies to the refugees from the Middle East. Why aren't the countries like Saudi Arabia or UAE taking in fellow Muslims ....in fact none of the Sunni\Gulf countries are prepared to take in ONE Syrian....but we expect the average EU citizen to just be fine with this

 

And then finally you do have  a risk where some of these refugees may arrive in a place like Finland but not be able to find work so without a job they would never truly integrate . So then they will just end up living in these housing estates ...probably blaming Finland a little but also being happy to live off social grants because the reality at home is much worse. And you can understand how the thought of thousands of people  just living off social grants and never really contributing towards the economy is also an annoying concern. That to me is the real reason for this push back from Europeans and its understandable  

 

I'm not sure if Meshugger was talking specifically about that, but that's certainly a valid point. And there's definitely no easy answer here. Whatever decision you make, someone's going to get hurt. So, i guess, it all really comes to what kind of people we want to be. Do we turn people in need away because they're different and that will cause us some problems? I guess you can't blame europians if they choose it, it's their home after all, but i'm a bit of an idealist and i want to think that we're better than that. I feel like there's gotta be a better way than just ignoring syrian/african refugees.

 

 

Yeah no offense Sakai but I didn't want to say this earlier  because I didnt want you to think I  was being critical about Russia but Russia has a very bad global view of how you treat Muslims and yes its because of Chechnya and places like Dagestan 

 

 

 

But I understand that Russia has a very different and militant history with Muslims and countries like Russia have decided that they won't be pressured into just accepting refugees from places like Pakistan

 

Now I don't agree with this  but I do see the Russian point...maybe its actually the way the EU should behave and just be much harder about refugees and what they can expect from immigrating?

 

The West sees this differently and believes to trying to absorb these people, I guess only time will tell 

 

Not exactly sure what you're trying to say here, but why would i be offended by it anyway? I'm not Putin, just because i live in Russia doesn't mean i'm not critical about it. So you can say whatever you want freely.

Edited November 15, 2015 by Sakai

[Darkpriest]

Do you guys remember the Rohingya refugees? Burma kick them out, and they are forced to go here in SEA, because it is assumed we are Muslims and we will accept them... but my country don't accept them even they are Muslims...why? Because of security and it is international political game...

 

Someone force them here to destabilize SEA countries...the Turk who took them refuge...

 

When immigrants are too many, it will destabilize everything... economically, politically, religion, safety, dseases and many uncalculated problems....so even they are Muslims, my country don't accept them...

 

What we can do is help them to what they need outside our border, but they have to go back to their country

 

and this is the view people in EU should have as well. Help them THERE, not keep them flowing into own countries.

[Drowsy Emperor]

 

This again. I am from Moscow and there isn't exactly a peaceful coexistence. Ticking bomb.

And what you're talking about has nothing to do with Islam but Chechnya, and the fact that it's ruled pretty much by a bunch of bandits, by people who faught against Russia. But sure, f it. Let's oversimplify everything and blame Islam for the incredibly complex issues happening around the world right now. That will surely solve every problem.

 

 

You must be especially short sighted. What do you think would have happened in other Russian islamic regions if Chechens weren't beaten down?

 

Its nice to sit in Moscow and preach equality and world peace, but go to Sarajevo, or Pristina or any other muslim ****hole and we'll see how your rights fare.

 

I could do the same from Belgrade, but then I'd have to ignore the fact that it took us three hundred years to throw the pests out and even that didn't save us from two wars with them in the last thirty years.