Republican Presidential Debate

[BruceVC]

I'm talking about the ones who want to preserve Jeffersonian democracy, capitalism, Federalism and Constitutional law where no one is either above or below the law. I guess some of those things are already gone so may be trying to restore them would be reactionary?

Yes you are a reactionary....not quite a zealot but no doubt a reactionary    

[BruceVC]

Reactionaries aren't really the same as conservatives, since they do want change just in the opposite direction from those wanted by progressives/ liberals. Conservative/ reactionary/ liberal/ progressive have always been both moving goal posts over time and relative to each other within a particular area (country, usually).

 

Much of the problem with discussion of such issues is that the various terms are pretty indistinct and relative, so a liberal in KSA is likely to be far more conservative than a conservative in Sweden but a conservative from Sweden in the early 19th century would be majorly different from the 21st century Swedish conservative; and you have a distinction between the 'old' liberalism which was largely related to economics and 'social' liberalism which is more related to what we'd now call social justice and the like. So you end up with confusing things like the Australian Liberal Party and British Conservative Party actually being very similar despite their names with both being (broadly) socially conservative but economically liberal. It really needs better nomenclature, much like the rather silly left wing/ right wing stuff which is most often used both terribly and inconsistently and has shifted pretty randomly from its roots in 18thC France.

This is a good post Zora, its interesting and raises some good points 

[Amentep]

California and Texas are probably the two states that could feasibly break away and establish an independent government.  

 

According to this, Alaska and Hawaii are the states that would struggle the most: http://business.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/08/20/13283087-hawaii-alaska-and-the-states-that-get-the-most-federal-money

 

Pretty interesting read.  

 

It is pretty interesting, but I'm not sure - given how they present the data and what it represents (military spending, college aid, etc) on a per-person breakdown (ie total spending divided by population without understanding who is getting the money and why) actually indicates that Alaska or Hawaii would have problems existing without access to federal governmental money.

 

I mean they may, but I don't think its really borne out in that data.

[Leferd]

Kevin McCarthy withdraws name for Speakership.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/10/08/kevin-mccarthys-implosion-signals-that-republicans-have-a-revolution-on-their-hands/

 

The Republican establishment is kaput.

Edited October 8, 2015 by Leferd

[Guard Dog]

Kevin McCarthy withdraws name for Speakership.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/10/08/kevin-mccarthys-implosion-signals-that-republicans-have-a-revolution-on-their-hands/

 

The Republican establishment is kaput.

The House Freedom Caucus is wielding a lot of influence for it's size it seems. I think that is a good thing.

[Leferd]

That's not the worst thing that can happen from the Democrat perspective. It's not like a Tea Partier can be the next Speaker. Let them have their civil war. This is the crows coming home to roost.

Edited October 8, 2015 by Leferd

[Wrath of Dagon]

Before you defeat the enemy you first have to purge the traitors.

[ShadySands]

Kevin McCarthy withdraws name for Speakership.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/10/08/kevin-mccarthys-implosion-signals-that-republicans-have-a-revolution-on-their-hands/

 

The Republican establishment is kaput.

[Varana]

Before you defeat the enemy you first have to purge the traitors.

Worked for Stalin, kinda.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Actually it didn't. What he called traitors were completely innocent people. Big part of the reason Soviet Union did so bad in Finnish war and WW2 initially is he purged the military of most experienced officers.

[Bryy]

Before you defeat the enemy you first have to purge the traitors.

Wait, so you're saying anyone that drops out of the runnings for a job is a traitor...

[Barothmuk]

 

We'd be the only conservative country in the world, and therefore the most economically successful and freest country in the world. And really, don't Conservatives deserve their own homeland? Btw, efforts to secede haven't led to war anywhere in the Western world, and one might remember that the feds backed off when confronted with an armed population in that dispute with the Nevada rancher.

Saudi Arabia is p. conservative, yet I would not call them free or economically successful...

 

Mississippi is incredibly conservative and its the poorest state in the U.S.

[Namutree]

 

 

We'd be the only conservative country in the world, and therefore the most economically successful and freest country in the world. And really, don't Conservatives deserve their own homeland? Btw, efforts to secede haven't led to war anywhere in the Western world, and one might remember that the feds backed off when confronted with an armed population in that dispute with the Nevada rancher.

Saudi Arabia is p. conservative, yet I would not call them free or economically successful...

 

Mississippi is incredibly conservative and its the poorest state in the U.S.

 

Not only that, but it gets an unfair amount of federal money:

https://wallethub.com/edu/states-most-least-dependent-on-the-federal-government/2700/

[Guard Dog]

You guys need to divorce the words Republican and Conservative. They are starting to mean very different things.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

You guys need to divorce the words Republican and Conservative. They are starting to mean very different things.

I'd say conservative means something very different from what it is used to describe in US politics, but words get meaning from culture so it's stuck being shorthand for class cuckoldry, hawkish military policy, and adherence to certain parts of Christian teachings instead of "slow to change".

[Varana]

Actually it didn't. What he called traitors were completely innocent people. Big part of the reason Soviet Union did so bad in Finnish war and WW2 initially is he purged the military of most experienced officers.

Exactly. Now read my post again.

[Wrath of Dagon]

 

Before you defeat the enemy you first have to purge the traitors.

Wait, so you're saying anyone that drops out of the runnings for a job is a traitor...

 

I was commenting on something else, McCarthy dropping out was definitely a good thing.

 

 

 

 

We'd be the only conservative country in the world, and therefore the most economically successful and freest country in the world. And really, don't Conservatives deserve their own homeland? Btw, efforts to secede haven't led to war anywhere in the Western world, and one might remember that the feds backed off when confronted with an armed population in that dispute with the Nevada rancher.

Saudi Arabia is p. conservative, yet I would not call them free or economically successful...

 

Mississippi is incredibly conservative and its the poorest state in the U.S.

 

Mississippi is historically rural and poor. If they were a country being conservative might help them more, but as it is they still have to obey all the federal rules.

 

 

 

Actually it didn't. What he called traitors were completely innocent people. Big part of the reason Soviet Union did so bad in Finnish war and WW2 initially is he purged the military of most experienced officers.

Exactly. Now read my post again.

 

I did read it. What philosophical depths did I miss? "kind of worked" still means it did work, not "it did the opposite of intended".

[Hurlshort]

As a candidate for President, I certainly do not expect you to be an expert on archeology or even history.  But I do expect you to be smart enough to listen to an entire world of experts who have actually done the studying, or at least not dumb enough to throw out your own unfounded opinions.

 

I am no longer interested in Ben Carson as a candidate.  

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I hate to break it to you Hurlie, but most of those candidates don't believe in climate change.

[Hurlshort]

I hate to break it to you Hurlie, but most of those candidates don't believe in climate change.

 

Hey, I'm a history guy, not a science guy.  That doesn't get under my skin as much.  

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

I hate to break it to you Hurlie, but most of those candidates don't believe in climate change.

 

Hey, I'm a history guy, not a science guy. That doesn't get under my skin as much.

Ah, so a different situation where a politician pulled a contrarian opinion out of their ass. What did Carson say? Edited November 5, 2015 by KaineParker

[ShadySands]

Something like the pyramids were built by Joseph to store grain. Originally said it a while ago but when asked about it recently he doubled down on it or something

[Barothmuk]

I've changed my mind I want Carson for president. 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I've changed my mind I want Carson for president.

 

No you fool, he's far too mild for acceleration. We need Trump to truly crash the US.

[Guard Dog]

Right now I'm leaning towards "none of the above". But I already know next year I'll be voting "not Democrat". So whoever wins the nomination can probably count on my vote. But I'm certain I'll be holding my nose when I do it.