Germany : The Road to Redemption

[BruceVC]

Guys I have seen a strange anti-German sentiment from some people in the media and even on these forums. People are claiming Germany is malicious and has some surreptitious intention to control the EU in a negative way and actually undermine other EU countries 

 

The reality cant be further from this view, Germany has the goal of truly making the EU an economic powerhouse in the world and this is something that will benefit all EU members and the West. They are not trying to implement Nazism secretly  and have in fact avoided being seen as a military power...they have done a exemplary job at managing there economy 

 

Its really strange for me as someone who lives outside the EU to see this resentment from people from some EU countries....and it seems to be that this is some sort of historical anti-German view from the WW2 days. Its like people have still not moved on from those days and how Germany was the   " bad guy " 

 

Anyway here is an excellent and informed link that highlights  reasonably  what motivates Germany and just how much work the Germans have done in there road to redemption after there belligerent past. Please read this and hopefully after this we can start supporting Germany and giving it the credit it deserves 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/germanys-road-to-redemption-shines-amid-europes-refugee-debate/2015/09/10/00955630-57f0-11e5-8bb1-b488d231bba2_story.html

[Meshugger]

Germany YES

 

- All hail Germany, who demands austerity from its neighbouring nations when its own post WWII-loans were written off by its creditors

- All hail Germany, who declined immigration for 100 000 people from its neighbouring european countries while opening the door to the rest of the world

- All hail Germany, who has stagnated the wages of its labor to such a degree that people with jobs have to apply to welfare in order to afford housing and food (see HARTZ IV welfare programs)

- All hail Germany, where people are effectively removed from public society when they try to praise their country when it is the only thing left in their lives

 

The land of poets, philosophers and mathematicians is long gone. What is only left is a feeble, desperate grasp onto the waves of materialism and modernity and we are all following them like the good soldiers we are.

Edited September 16, 2015 by Meshugger

[Malcador]

Really, redemption ? Germany's been a good citizen of the world for many years now, no ?

 

Also, screw that site for having a special pop up for ad blockers. But I don't think people are worried about the Fourth Reich rising, you can make jokes on it given the way the EU works and what not though. I think anyone not digging Germany's invitation to traipse through a whole bunch of other countries is doing so out of some hatred of Germans. Germany should help contain them in Greece and Italy and then fly them in.

[Rosveen]

I have nothing against Germany and Germans, but I don't buy into their version of #EuropeanSolidarity.

 

After Central European and Baltic countries joined the EU in 2004, Germany (and Austria) chose to uphold the labor market restrictions for our citizens for full seven years, the maximum period they were allowed to do so. We couldn't freely seek work in Germany until 2011.

 

Today they let a flood of Syrians into their country barely checking their background, give them welfare and when they get tired of the people they invited, they try to drop them off on our doorstep, demand that we shelter them and give them jobs and threaten with the use of force if we refuse.

 

Give me a break.

Edited September 16, 2015 by Rosveen

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Germany YES

 

- All hail Germany, who demands austerity from its neighbouring nations when its own post WWII-loans were written off by its creditors

- All hail Germany, who declined immigration for 100 000 people from its neighbouring european countries while opening the door to the rest of the world

- All hail Germany, who has stagnated the wages of its labor to such a degree that people with jobs have to apply to welfare in order to afford housing and food (see HARTZ IV welfare programs)

- All hail Germany, where people are effectively removed from public society when they try to praise their country when it is the only thing left in their lives

 

The land of poets, philosophers and mathematicians is long gone. What is only left is a feeble, desperate grasp onto the waves of materialism and modernity and we are all following them like the good soldiers we are.

Messhugger..you funny :D

 

Germany is raising GDP of EU, this means the economy is getting better ?

[BruceVC]

I have nothing against Germany and Germans, but I don't buy into their version of #EuropeanSolidarity.

 

After Central European and Baltic countries joined the EU in 2004, Germany (and Austria) chose to uphold the labor market restrictions for our citizens for full seven years, the maximum period they were allowed to do so. We couldn't freely seek work in Germany until 2011.

 

Today they let a flood of Syrians into their country barely checking their background, give them welfare and when they get tired of the people they invited, they try to drop them off on our doorstep, demand that we shelter them and give them jobs and threaten with the use of force if we refuse.

 

Give me a break.

I can understand your frustration, where do you live?

[BruceVC]

 

Germany YES

 

- All hail Germany, who demands austerity from its neighbouring nations when its own post WWII-loans were written off by its creditors

- All hail Germany, who declined immigration for 100 000 people from its neighbouring european countries while opening the door to the rest of the world

- All hail Germany, who has stagnated the wages of its labor to such a degree that people with jobs have to apply to welfare in order to afford housing and food (see HARTZ IV welfare programs)

- All hail Germany, where people are effectively removed from public society when they try to praise their country when it is the only thing left in their lives

 

The land of poets, philosophers and mathematicians is long gone. What is only left is a feeble, desperate grasp onto the waves of materialism and modernity and we are all following them like the good soldiers we are.

Messhugger..you funny :D

 

Germany is raising GDP of EU, this means the economy is getting better ?

 

Yes an increased GDP is a good thing but it doesn't  necessarily reflect other positive economic metrics...like employment rate

 

So GDP could be higher but unemployment could still be considered bad 

[Gorth]

Not my work, no idea who originally came up with this...

--

 

The European Commission has announced an agreement whereby English will be the official language of the EU, rather than German, which was the other contender. Her Majesty's Government conceded that English spelling had room for improvement and has therefore accepted a five-year phasing in of "Euro-English".

In the first year, "s" will replace the soft "c". Sertainly, this will make sivil servants jump for joy. The hard "c" will be dropped in favour of the "k", Which should klear up some konfusion and allow one key less on keyboards.

There will be growing publik enthusiasm in the sekond year, when the troublesome "ph" will be replaced with "f", making words like "fotograf" 20% shorter.

In the third year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be expekted to reach the stage where more komplikated changes are possible. Governments will enkourage the removal of double letters which have always ben a deterent to akurate speling. Also, al wil agre that the horible mes of the silent "e" is disgrasful.

By the fourth yer, peopl wil be reseptiv to steps such as replasing "th" with "z" and "w" with "v".

During ze fifz yer, ze unesesary "o" kan be dropd from vords kontaining "ou" and similar changes vud of kors be aplid to ozer kombinations of leters. After zis fifz yer, ve vil hav a reli sensibl riten styl. Zer vil be no mor trubls or difikultis and everivun vil find it ezi to understand ech ozer. ZE DREM VIL FINALI COM TRU!

Herr Schmidt

[BruceVC]

Not my work, no idea who originally came up with this...

--

 

The European Commission has announced an agreement whereby English will be the official language of the EU, rather than German, which was the other contender. Her Majesty's Government conceded that English spelling had room for improvement and has therefore accepted a five-year phasing in of "Euro-English".

 

In the first year, "s" will replace the soft "c". Sertainly, this will make sivil servants jump for joy. The hard "c" will be dropped in favour of the "k", Which should klear up some konfusion and allow one key less on keyboards.

 

There will be growing publik enthusiasm in the sekond year, when the troublesome "ph" will be replaced with "f", making words like "fotograf" 20% shorter.

 

In the third year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be expekted to reach the stage where more komplikated changes are possible. Governments will enkourage the removal of double letters which have always ben a deterent to akurate speling. Also, al wil agre that the horible mes of the silent "e" is disgrasful.

 

By the fourth yer, peopl wil be reseptiv to steps such as replasing "th" with "z" and "w" with "v".

 

During ze fifz yer, ze unesesary "o" kan be dropd from vords kontaining "ou" and similar changes vud of kors be aplid to ozer kombinations of leters. After zis fifz yer, ve vil hav a reli sensibl riten styl. Zer vil be no mor trubls or difikultis and everivun vil find it ezi to understand ech ozer. ZE DREM VIL FINALI COM TRU!

 

Herr Schmidt

 

Very funny

[BruceVC]

Germany is doing exactly the same thing for over thousand years.

They try to conquer all of Europe under their boot.

They tried doing this by military means but failed. Now they conquering Europe without one bullet, but old habits die hard. Martin Schultz openly said that Germany will use force on countries that don't agree with Germany in EU!.

 

There is a reason that UN allows all members to attack Germany imediately in case of German soldier stepping in any member country.

This is the exact anti-German sentiment that worries me...its not based on fact or an objective analysis of the reality of the current role and motives of Germany  

[Gorth]

 

Germany is doing exactly the same thing for over thousand years.

They try to conquer all of Europe under their boot.

They tried doing this by military means but failed. Now they conquering Europe without one bullet, but old habits die hard. Martin Schultz openly said that Germany will use force on countries that don't agree with Germany in EU!.

 

There is a reason that UN allows all members to attack Germany imediately in case of German soldier stepping in any member country.

This is the exact anti-German sentiment that worries me...its not based on fact or an objective analysis of the reality of the current role and motives of Germany  

 

Besides, a thousand years may be a bit exaggerated, as there wasn't *a* Germany before 1814. The story is similar to Italy's which also traces its modern version roots back to the end of the Napoleonic wars and the congress of Vienna

[Bartimaeus]

I think it's silly to say that where "wasn't a Germany" before 1814: that's like saying there wasn't a Turkey before 1920, when Turkey is clearly an evolution (of sorts) of the Ottoman Empire. Germany may not have existed as a solidarity before then, but German peoples and states (particularly as part of the Holy Roman Empire) certainly did.

Edited September 16, 2015 by Bartimaeus

[Gorth]

The history of the Germanic tribes is a long and convoluted one. The French, whether they like it or not are just as German as the "Germans". So is just about everyone living north of Rome in Italy, being descendants of Germanic tribes. So, which of the German peoples is the most German one?

 

Nation states didn't really appear as a concept until the middle of the seventeenth century, so before that time there's little point in thinking of countries as something like we know them today. Loyalties (both secular and spiritual) of people were to rulers, leaders, lords, lieges etc. "Country" was an alien concept. Rulers fought over provinces and resources, not over "nationalist" objectives. If you look at a map of Europe from 1000ad (i.e. about a thousand years back), the Holy Roman Empire is not a country. It's a loose union of 30+ independent realms, including several from northern Italy, eastern France, Holland etc.

 

 

[Bartimaeus]

Yes...Germany and France's shared heritage goes back at least as far as the Carolingian Empire, IIRC. That's why (at least) both share the general term "Franks", from what I remember. If you want to make the argument that the concept of nationality as we know it today was little to nonexistent back then, and therefore almost all nations have trouble tracing their heritage back very far (with maybe a few exceptions), well...I can accept that more readily than just the argument against Germany, so fine.

Edited September 16, 2015 by Bartimaeus

[213374U]

Martin Schultz openly said that Germany will use force on countries that don't agree with Germany in EU!.

 

Do you have a link for this?

[Malcador]

 

Then the translation game is played, no doubt.

 

If the force is guns and steel, eh, I think France will win this round.

[Varana]

I don't know about the English translation, but Polish chronicles name Otton I the King of Germans and the Emperor of the Holy Roman Empire as separate titles as far as year 935-940. There are also other mentions of the Germans and Germany throughout various chronicles so I will stay by my original statement.

Otto I was rex Francorum orientalium, King of the Eastern Franks. Later on, the ruler of the part of the Holy Roman Empire north of the Alps usually styled themselves rex Romanorum, i.e. King of the Romans (funnily enough). Rex in Germania (King in Germany) came into use in the 16th century. "Germany" or "German king" is often used today as a convenient shortcut but it was not actually official.

And it's still valid what Bruce wrote - there was not a Germany but a conglomerate of many principalities in a vaguely defined area whose inhabitants mostly spoke some form of German (including Dutch) - mostly, as one of the more prominent "German" states was Bohemia, and the Czech are kind of not German. Even Otto I's realm was a bunch of powerful dukedoms held together by them recognising him as overlord (most of the time) - the wonders of feudalism.

 

Schulz: He's not talking about Germany in particular but about those who support the idea of a European Union in general, as opposed to the "ultra-nationalists". And he's clearly not talking about the military.

Edited September 16, 2015 by Varana

[Lexx]

 

Then the translation game is played, no doubt.

 

If the force is guns and steel, eh, I think France will win this round.

But he is talking about "ultra nationalists".

 

Besides, this is from a tv show called "Frontal 21" - most of the time this show is sensational bs and nothing else. They get their views from making people angry.

Edited September 16, 2015 by Lexx

[213374U]

Then the translation game is played, no doubt.

 

If the force is guns and steel, eh, I think France will win this round.

 

I tried to use the automatic subtitle translator and it resulted in unintelligible gibberish*. I cannot into German.

 

 

*so working as inteded, amirite?

[Meshugger]

 

Germany YES

 

- All hail Germany, who demands austerity from its neighbouring nations when its own post WWII-loans were written off by its creditors

- All hail Germany, who declined immigration for 100 000 people from its neighbouring european countries while opening the door to the rest of the world

- All hail Germany, who has stagnated the wages of its labor to such a degree that people with jobs have to apply to welfare in order to afford housing and food (see HARTZ IV welfare programs)

- All hail Germany, where people are effectively removed from public society when they try to praise their country when it is the only thing left in their lives

 

The land of poets, philosophers and mathematicians is long gone. What is only left is a feeble, desperate grasp onto the waves of materialism and modernity and we are all following them like the good soldiers we are.

Messhugger..you funny :D

 

Germany is raising GDP of EU, this means the economy is getting better ?

 

 

Oh you silly willy, of course capital has increased. But it's just that the labor gets a smaller share for each year.

 

All you globalist should be happy, the labor pool is not anymore constrained by those pesky things like nations or borders. In the future no one will be able to tell each other apart because all ethnicities, cultures, laws and morals have been intertwined through supranational trade deals. One day you are a gold-miner in Ulaanbaator, the other day you are investment banker in Montevideo, same rules apply to everyone! Now, who will enforce those deals and how you should manage the armies and the police is nothing to worry about, we're thinking about privatizing them and we have mercenaries with their best interests in their hearts protecting private property. Surely it will work, trust us!

[Varana]

The automatic translation is surprisingly decent later on, although it has hiccoughs at the beginning.

 

"The Europe of the Ultra-Nationalists - if they win, then we will get this* Europe not only in this aspect but in many other aspects, as well. It is the Europe of a common / collective spirit** that we now need, and that Europe has to assert itself with power, if need be. It cannot be***, that those - and I am one of those - who say that in the 21st century, in a globalised 21st century, we cannot solve global problems with nationalism, that they at some point say that we are going to fight, that we prevail in a fight over the others."

 

* As the video is only a snippet and probably quite out of context - he refers to the "Europe of the Ultra-Nationalists" he obviously was talking about earlier.

** spirit of community, commonwealth, collaborative spirit - something like that.

*** He continues the sentence as if he had said the opposite, i.e. the sentence structure is wrong. It seems clear (as far as Schulz can be clear :D) what he means, though.

[Meshugger]

Oh, i forgot. Another "Germany YES!"

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/3l5f3j/exstasi_agent_will_now_monitor_comments_critical/

 

Are you conducting un-german activity on facebook and other social networks? Are you making poor mutti Merkel sad? Don't worry, germany understands that in order to protect freedom of speech you have to expose and silence those who need it the most.

[Malcador]

 

 

Then the translation game is played, no doubt.

 

If the force is guns and steel, eh, I think France will win this round.

But he is talking about "ultra nationalists".

 

Besides, this is from a tv show called "Frontal 21" - most of the time this show is sensational bs and nothing else. They get their views from making people angry.

 

I just googled for a source of the claim.

[Volourn]

Germany is evil country.  Their actions over the years have proven it. And,t he fact that Germany has no problem threatening  other European countries to get what they want with violence says everything about them. Their doubkle stand, hypocrist, SJWishness, and nazism is all that needs to be known.

[HoonDing]