Savage Attack vs Vulnerable Attack

[Gary1986]

My question is, which is better/does more damage/more useful.

 

I also have another question (Ill post it here so i dont have to make another post)

 

The talent Quick Switch mentions it reduces the time between spells in grimoires. Does that mean when you cast 1 spell, then cast another completely different spell, it reduces the load up time when switching spells during combat? If so, does that mean its a must have for a wizard?

Edited June 29, 2015 by Gary1986

[View619]

Savage Attack if you have high accuracy.

Vulnerable Attack if you dual wield or have talents that increase your attack speed (Ranger's Swift Aim, Two Weapon Fighting, etc).

 

Personally, I would just take Savage Attack and find some way to offset the accuracy penalty.

Edited June 29, 2015 by View619

[Gary1986]

Savage Attack if you have high accuracy.

Vulnerable Attack if you dual wield or have talents that increase your attack speed (Ranger's Swift Aim, Two Weapon Fighting, etc).

 

Personally, I would just take Savage Attack and find some way to offset the accuracy penalty.

 

 

Well i dual wield Flails on my main (one of the flails has a 1.2 attack speed bonus) Also my crit rating is around 1 in 4.

[View619]

Flails are fast, weak weapons with the graze to hit property. You should take Vulnerable attack, since that DR Bypass is greater than what you get from Savage Attack.

Also, Quick Switch refers to switching Grimoires during combat.Since the ability to scout out encounters is so lenient in this game, there's no reason to take it for a wizard; just prepare the spells you need immediately before you engage.

 

Maybe if you could only prepare Grimoire spells during a rest, then Quick Switch for Wizards would be more useful.

[Uni]

You can use both at the same time. 20% damage from savage attack feels like its almost always worth the lesser accuracy and vulnerable attack is good for dual wielding or fast weapons in general.

[Dinky Dino]

Since you can activate both of these modals at the same time, I tend to take them both. Also if you're playing PotD where a lot of things have stacked DR is where Vulnerable attack shines. I always take savage first since I run a two handed and therefore the damage is always a 5+ increase either way and the negative accuracy is easily negated due to buffs. If you tend to use fast one handed weapons then vulernable is obviously a better damage increase since it tends to outdo 20% damage with those fast but low damage per hit weapons and nearly everything has high dr.

Edited June 29, 2015 by Dinky Dino

[Nobear]

Since you can activate both of these modals at the same time, I tend to take them both. Also if you're playing PotD where a lot of things have stacked DR is where Vulnerable attack shines. I always take savage first since I run a two handed and therefore the damage is always a 5+ increase either way and the negative accuracy is easily negated due to buffs. If you tend to use fast one handed weapons then vulernable is obviously a better damage increase since it tends to outdo 20% damage with those fast but low damage per hit weapons and nearly everything has high dr.

 

I think that's sensible advice. Personally, I tend to take all the other good talents first before I take these DPS ones with a tradeoff. I have no melee DPS in my party, just two tanks and four ranged. I don't plan to take Savage Attack with any of them, and I only plan to take Vulnerable Attack Penetrating Shot with my cipher when she gets access to a good blunderbuss. People might not consider blunderbusses such clear winners any more for ciphers, but Colan Garow (or whatever the drug is called) still gives a flat focus gain per hit. Out of all weapon types, blunderbusses are the most extreme in that each hit does very little damage (each shot is actually 6 separate pellet hits). Therefore, Vulnerable Attack Penetrating Shot is a clear winner for a blunderbuss user.

Edited June 30, 2015 by Nobear

[Gary1986]

So how many modals can one character activate at once? Two? Or does it just apply to those two modals?

[Nobear]

The only modals I know of that you can only have one of at once are the class-specific ones (e.g. paladin auras, ranger modals, fighter modals), and Defender/Cautious Attack. So it would be a waste, for example, to get Cautious Attack on a fighter.

 

I don't know if there's any rhyme or reason to the system, or if there are any other examples I'm missing.

[cavemandiary]

I dont like savage attack unless I play 1h without a shield, on a very high accuracy char.

 

Remember, accuracy not only affects your chance to hit, but also your graze and crit chance. Those 5 accuracy lost could very well end up offsetting the 20% dmg bobus.

[Torm51]

 

Since you can activate both of these modals at the same time, I tend to take them both. Also if you're playing PotD where a lot of things have stacked DR is where Vulnerable attack shines. I always take savage first since I run a two handed and therefore the damage is always a 5+ increase either way and the negative accuracy is easily negated due to buffs. If you tend to use fast one handed weapons then vulernable is obviously a better damage increase since it tends to outdo 20% damage with those fast but low damage per hit weapons and nearly everything has high dr.

 

I think that's sensible advice. Personally, I tend to take all the other good talents first before I take these DPS ones with a tradeoff. I have no melee DPS in my party, just two tanks and four ranged. I don't plan to take Savage Attack with any of them, and I only plan to take Vulnerable Attack with my cipher when she gets access to a good blunderbuss. People might not consider blunderbusses such clear winners any more for ciphers, but Colan Garow (or whatever the drug is called) still gives a flat focus gain per hit. Out of all weapon types, blunderbusses are the most extreme in that each hit does very little damage (each shot is actually 6 separate pellet hits). Therefore, Vulnerable Attack is a clear winner for a blunderbuss user.

 

Savage attack only applies to melee damage.  Not ranged weapons.  If you are taking a blunderbuss Cipher I would recommend Penetrating Shot.

 

On to the topic at hand.  I only play PoTD now and enemies that MATTER have such high DR that a melee dpser without Vulnerable attack is crap (imho).  If you cant penetrate some bosses and enemies (like Animats) who have a 32 DR its irrelevant how much damage your character can do as it will be pitiful against high DR.  He/she will be useless against hard targets.  Or have to rely to much on minus DR abilities from other classes such as Wizards.  Vulnerable attack over Savage attack every time.  If you have a high accuracy class I would take BOTH.  Like a rogue for instance.  On a DPS Paladin I would not take Savage Attack as Paladin accuracy is bad (although ok if you go the dps route) and every point counts.

[Nobear]

Savage attack only applies to melee damage.  Not ranged weapons.  If you are taking a blunderbuss Cipher I would recommend Penetrating Shot.

 

On to the topic at hand.  I only play PoTD now and enemies that MATTER have such high DR that a melee dpser without Vulnerable attack is crap (imho).  If you cant penetrate some bosses and enemies (like Animats) who have a 32 DR its irrelevant how much damage your character can do as it will be pitiful against high DR.  He/she will be useless against hard targets.  Or have to rely to much on minus DR abilities from other classes such as Wizards.  Vulnerable attack over Savage attack every time.  If you have a high accuracy class I would take BOTH.  Like a rogue for instance.  On a DPS Paladin I would not take Savage Attack as Paladin accuracy is bad (although ok if you go the dps route) and every point counts.

 

Sorry, I meant Penetrating Shot for blunderbuss, just edited the post. I forgot for a moment that the melee and ranged talents that do equivalent things are separated like that. It would sure be important to pick the right one!

Edited June 30, 2015 by Nobear

[player1]

I dont like savage attack unless I play 1h without a shield, on a very high accuracy char.

 

Remember, accuracy not only affects your chance to hit, but also your graze and crit chance. Those 5 accuracy lost could very well end up offsetting the 20% dmg bobus.

 

Actually, grazes are rarely affected:

 

Standard miss/graze/hit/crit chance against equal defenses: 15/35/50/0

 

+15 attack: 0/35/50/15 - see, still same amount of grazes and hits, but also 15% misses are converted to criticals, which is great gain

 

+15-50 attack: grazes are converted to crits, which is smaller gain then first +15 accuracy

 

-15 attack: 30/35/35 - again, same amount of grazes, but now 15% of hits are converted to misses

This is smaller penalty then gain from first +15 extra accuracy over target.

 

-15-50 attack: no change, still hits converted to misses

 

 

Anyway, +15 attack over target is great boon, while +15-50 bonus or -1-50 penalty are mechanically very similar (for default 0.5 crit weapons).

Edited June 30, 2015 by player1