The all Priest challenge?

[Nexus0]

I was thinking about how hard this would be, or if it would just be really long, really boring. Thoughts?

[wanderon]

If you could use both priests and druids it would probably work ok but even 6 priests is likely to be doable.

[srlapo]

Magran's priests are pretty decent with swords and arquebuses thanks to the inspired flame talent. And with the right talents and stats anyone can tank, so I don't see why it wouldn't work. 4 riflemen and 2 sword and shield front liners is how I would go. 

[Matt516]

Priests also have some decent damage spells, if not an incredibly diverse selection. Divine Mark is quickly becoming one of my favorite spells now that Durance has it as a per-encounter. :D

[Gromnir]

I was thinking about how hard this would be, or if it would just be really long, really boring. Thoughts?

short and boring... though a few battles will be tougher.

 

max mechanics on all priests.  before every battle you will be able to set traps, which include seal spells.  a ring or wall o repulsing seals with obscene high crit rate that will render any foe prone for a considerable amount o' time? maybe have one priest use searing seal to blind everybody as well.  you are gonna win most battles before they start.

 

you have loads o' fire spells and holy radiance burns as well, so take scion o flame for everybody.  

 

suggest a spread o' divinities to take advantage o' unique weapons and racial benefits. a hearth orlan priest o' eothas with mabec's morningstar will crit frequent. a couple magran faeries (wood elves) armed with arquebus and the gunner + marksman talents will do nice ranged damage and have extremely high accuracy. a couple o' skaen priests would be beneficial as well.  there is excellent stilettos and clubs in the game.  

 

your tank is going to die.  again, priests is squishy. cast withdraw when your tank is in a doorway is an option to prolong life, but take all the tanky talents such as sword and shield and cautious attack won't make you a great tank.  wild orlan priest o' berath is likely your bestest option though moon godlike is worthy o' consideration.  heck, perhaps a mountain dwarf?  wild orlan gets defensive boost when subjected to will attacks. moonie gets healing aura. dwarf resists poison and disease and gets potential 19 con... add Rauatai culture for 20 con.  we hate min/max nonsense, but for a priest tank you might need to do so.  boost perception and resolve to max. we would go with the orlan, but this might be the one character that genuine benefits from pumping constitution, so dwarf racial bonus and resistances is worthy o' consideration even if is not gonna be a popular option.   don't worry about your tank's weapon choice.  early in the game use the rapier or warhammer with the guarding quality. you is actual gonna crit frequent regardless o' your sucky accuracy 'cause most o' the time your foes will be prone and blind and otherwise disabled. why berath?  *shrug* corrosive siphon will heal you a bit.  unfortunately, even with the recent endurance boost, priests is squishy.  priests is not anywhere near as effective in the tank role as fighters, paladins, chanters, and monks. 

 

other than lack o' a good tank, you will also suffer from the absence o' the classes that create debuffs that make your spells more effective.  priests have many offensive spells that are opposed by will.  divine mark is a lowly level 2 spell, but for a priest with an 18 might and the aforementioned scion o' flame talent, you will regularly crit in the 80 damage range.  go ahead and check and you will see how many debuffs and damage spells for the priest is targeting will. unfortunately, your priests don't have many will debuffs of their own.  the priest o' wael's debuff ain't gonna cut it neither. interdictions is gonna be you best bet for routinely debuffing will, so get painful interdiction on a couple priests asap.

 

good luck.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps if you have 1.06 loaded, wait to try this option.  holy radiance is broken in the beta version o' 1.06.  you will be healing and buffing your foes with holy radiance, and with six priests...

 

developers is aware o' the bug, so am hopeful they fix.

Edited May 29, 2015 by Gromnir

[Bubbles]

 

max mechanics on all priests.  before every battle you will be able to set traps, which include seal spells.  a ring or wall o repulsing seals with obscene high crit rate that will render any foe prone for a considerable amount o' time? maybe have one priest use searing seal to blind everybody as well.  you are gonna win most battles before they start.

 

 

Seal spells no longer benefit from Mechanics as of 1.06 beta. It might have been changed earlier, but it definitely isn't working with the newest patch.

[Gromnir]

 

 

max mechanics on all priests.  before every battle you will be able to set traps, which include seal spells.  a ring or wall o repulsing seals with obscene high crit rate that will render any foe prone for a considerable amount o' time? maybe have one priest use searing seal to blind everybody as well.  you are gonna win most battles before they start.

 

 

Seal spells no longer benefit from Mechanics as of 1.06 beta. It might have been changed earlier, but it definitely isn't working with the newest patch.

 

that would actual be a reasonable change from the developers as priestly seal spells were ridiculous powerful.  we noted in other threads that even w/o the benefit o' mechanics, seal spells provided the priest with a functional accuracy boost given the benefit o' traps math.  developers added accuracy penalties to traps but not to seal spells in 1.05 or 1.04.  if developers have finally gotten around to adjusting, then it is an overdue change.  seal spells will continue to be relative powerful if they use trap math w/o the accuracy penalties o' traps.  however, we won't see silly results with +160 accuracy for repulsing seals.  

 

will check later.

 

aside:  is another argument in favor o' a respec feature as every freaking priest we got has max mechanics.  removal o' mechanics modification o' seals makes lore, athletics and even survival worthy o' consideration when assigning points, particular as other classes have better starting affinity for mechanics.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[qweqwe]

I was thinking about how hard this would be, or if it would just be really long, really boring. Thoughts?

 

If you think that this would be fun for you, go for it. I believe that any team with 6 casters is good enough to destroy PotD. 

[Nexus0]

What are these seal spells? You mean the hazard ones? are they really that good, I never use them.

[Luckmann]

Not even hard. Priests can be amazing, and if you consistently put up seals and prepare for battles, and maintain ~2 melee priests, you should actually be doing quite well.

 

I would put an Eothasian and a Skaenite up front, backed up by at least two Magranites with Arquebi. Pew pew, healingz.

 

What are these seal spells? You mean the hazard ones? are they really that good, I never use them.

Some people have been abusing the fact that they benefits from (until 1.06) Mechanics, since they count as spells. But yes, they're pretty good either way (which is why them benefiting from Mechanics was so broken).

 

Hopefully they also fixed the issue with priests not being able to place both traps and seals, too.

 

[...]

 

aside: is another argument in favor o' a respec feature as every freaking priest we got has max mechanics. removal o' mechanics modification o' seals makes lore, athletics and even survival worthy o' consideration when assigning points, particular as other classes have better starting affinity for mechanics.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Someone abusing an obvious bug that gets patched isn't really an argument in favour of a respec feature.

Edited May 29, 2015 by Luckmann

[Nexus0]

 

I was thinking about how hard this would be, or if it would just be really long, really boring. Thoughts?

 

If you think that this would be fun for you, go for it. I believe that any team with 6 casters is good enough to destroy PotD. 

 

 

If i wasn't lazy, i'd do it, and do an LP on youtube.

[Gromnir]

Not even hard. Priests can be amazing, and if you consistently put up seals and prepare for battles, and maintain ~2 melee priests, you should actually be doing quite well.

 

I would put an Eothasian and a Skaenite up front, backed up by at least two Magranites with Arquebi. Pew pew, healingz.

 

What are these seal spells? You mean the hazard ones? are they really that good, I never use them.

Some people have been abusing the fact that they benefits from (until 1.06) Mechanics, since they count as spells. But yes, they're pretty good either way (which is why them benefiting from Mechanics was so broken).

 

Hopefully they also fixed the issue with priests not being able to place both traps and seals, too.

 

[...]

 

aside: is another argument in favor o' a respec feature as every freaking priest we got has max mechanics. removal o' mechanics modification o' seals makes lore, athletics and even survival worthy o' consideration when assigning points, particular as other classes have better starting affinity for mechanics.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Someone abusing an obvious bug that gets patched isn't really an argument in favour of a respec feature.

 

*chuckle*

 

this weren't something that just popped up.  seal spell accuracy were a known quantity even during the beta and the obsidians responded that it were working as intended.  the trap math as a whole were wonky but it didn't become apparent when there were other ways to boost accuracy and when we were only playing levels 4-8. traps has been adjusted multiple times since release.  this were not a bug, but it were an oversight.

 

petrify were also altered despite the fact that it weren't bugged.

 

cipher focus were not bugged but it became obvious that it were excessive.  hell, all during the beta we had folks joking that a cipher with leadbitter could max focus with one opening salvo.  weren't a bug, just took obsidian a while to address.

 

etc.

 

wanna look at the list o' post release rebalancing?  is more than a few abilities that is still disproportionate powerful.  

 

*shrug*

 

observation: the overpowered nature o' priests were not "obvious" to you during the beta. silly rabbit.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Gromnir]

aside: the seal spells actual were nerfed previous to 1.06, but it weren't near enough.  during the beta, and at least at release, the seal spells were getting +15 accuracy.  this made a kinda sense as priests have terrible accuracy and this would allow priest seal spells to be more on par with physical traps set by rogues and ciphers and whatnot.  were there a genuine advantage in using a searing seal as 'posed to a noxious burst trap?  corrode v. burn were the main difference. if anything, the initial benefit o' seals v. traps had nothing to do with accuracy but were a matter o' physical traps seeming failing to trigger in spite o' their 1m target range.  how does a man-sized critter going through a trapped doorway not set off a 1 metre trap? seal spells, with their much larger target range, were far more reliable.  even so, weren't as if the crit chance and damage output for seals were skewed in favor o' priests.   

 

after release, obsidian realized quick that high level mechanics coupled with various traps led to You Win results.  tough battles were made silly easy.  so, being reasonable and responsible, the developers nerfed traps... but they seeming forgot seals?  at some point obsidian "fixes" the priestly imbalance by removing the +15 accuracy for seal spells. oh sure, Gromnir made any number o' posts about seal power, and we were hardly alone, but apparently obsidian had bigger issues.

 

a feature that has been around all beta and for two months o' release gets complete expunged?  we figured a nerfing o' some sort, but we didn't expect a complete elimination o' the synergy 'tween seals and mechanics.  heck, we were one o' the few folks shouting 'bout how over-powered were seal spells.  obsidian likely did the correct thing, just as removing accuracy from perception were the right thing.  doesn't change the fact that obsidian rebalancing results in a few skill points we would likely wanna redistribute.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps the beloved spirits nerf, which made us regret two chanter talent choices, were a similar kinda situation that woulda' been easily overcome with a respec option. 

 

pps am thinking the traps issues likely go back to removal o' attribute accuracy.  beta trap math, if we recall, did not benefit from perception bonuses... which made sense.  trap accuracy and power were likely balanced against combat accuracy with potential attribute bonuses included.  when perception were removed from the combat accuracy equation, traps gained a relative advantage. 

Edited May 30, 2015 by Gromnir

[Rostere]

I played with 2 priests in a playthrough, 6 would not be a problem at all. In fact, there are lots of cheesy tactics that come to mind - although I guess things will be easier at higher levels. At lower levels you will not have the same durability (you run out of spells faster), and not the same versatility.

 

Keep in mind that a lot of Priest spells can be useful to stack.

[MadDemiurg]

People, you argue about a nerf that didn't happen of a feature that never existed. Seal spells never benefited from mechanics. All "hazard aoe" type spells like seals and walls have increased accuracy, not related to mechanics in any way. In 1.06 my elven priest with no buffs has 85 accuracy with iconic projection and 126 with searing seal...

 

As for 6 priest challenge... I suggest renaming into "6 priest no challenge".

Edited May 30, 2015 by MadDemiurg

[Gromnir]

currently am getting a flat +26 accuracy for seal spells.  that is not how it worked in previous builds.  and yes, there has been multiple nerfs to seal spells.  for instance, am sure you can look to out-of-date sources to see that the seal spells all were receiving an additional +15 accuracy.  

 

*shrug*

 

on the positive side, the most recent patch has fixed the problem whereby holy radiance, and a few other abilities that were not s'posed to buff foes, were conveying positive benefits to non friendlies.  this were particular annoying for the non targetable abilities such as the paladin's inspiring triumph.  

 

 

HA! Good Fun!

[MadDemiurg]

For me on a freshly created 1.06 lvl3 human priest (0 mechanics):

 

Iconic projection: 44 accuracy

Repulsing seal: 85 accuracy

 

As for nerfs in previous builds, I dunno, never paid attention to it in earlier versions. +56 accuracy (iconic projection has +15) seems plenty to me, and as far as I can tell this is the same as in 1.05.

[Gromnir]

I dunno, never paid attention to it in earlier versions. 

that is kinda the point though, ain't it?  the nerfs did happen and you were kinda talking out your arse if you didn't pay attention, yes?

 

*shrug*

 

am suspecting that nerf were changing seals from trap mechanic to hazards.  check the out-dated wiki will show the +15 accuracy bonus for seal spells and no mention o' hazard.

 

the change were needed, but there were a change.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[MadDemiurg]

I was only commenting on supposed 1.06 nerf which didn't happen (for 1.05 it works the same, easy to test by switching to the original branch). I also remember testing mechanics in 1.04 and it didn't impact accuracy in any way, but I'm not sure if accuracy values were the same overall. As for any nerfs in 1.03 or in beta or mesozoic era as I said I'm not sure as I didn't test how it worked back then.

Edited May 30, 2015 by MadDemiurg

[Gromnir]

o' really?

 

People, you argue about a nerf that didn't happen of a feature that never existed. Seal spells never benefited from mechanics. All "hazard aoe" type spells like seals and walls have increased accuracy, not related to mechanics in any way. In 1.06 my elven priest with no buffs has 85 accuracy with iconic projection and 126 with searing seal...

 

As for 6 priest challenge... I suggest renaming into "6 priest no challenge".

*sigh*

 

your observation about folks arguing over a nerf that didn't happen o' a feature that never existed is clear fallacious.  thanks though.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited May 30, 2015 by Gromnir

[MadDemiurg]

Yeah, "never existed" was probably a bad wording, as I perhaps it did exist in some early version (or perhaps not). The 1.06 nerf clearly didn't happen though.

[Luckmann]

 

Not even hard. Priests can be amazing, and if you consistently put up seals and prepare for battles, and maintain ~2 melee priests, you should actually be doing quite well.

 

I would put an Eothasian and a Skaenite up front, backed up by at least two Magranites with Arquebi. Pew pew, healingz.

 

What are these seal spells? You mean the hazard ones? are they really that good, I never use them.

Some people have been abusing the fact that they benefits from (until 1.06) Mechanics, since they count as spells. But yes, they're pretty good either way (which is why them benefiting from Mechanics was so broken).

 

Hopefully they also fixed the issue with priests not being able to place both traps and seals, too.

 

[...]

 

aside: is another argument in favor o' a respec feature as every freaking priest we got has max mechanics. removal o' mechanics modification o' seals makes lore, athletics and even survival worthy o' consideration when assigning points, particular as other classes have better starting affinity for mechanics.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Someone abusing an obvious bug that gets patched isn't really an argument in favour of a respec feature.

 

*chuckle*

 

this weren't something that just popped up.  seal spell accuracy were a known quantity even during the beta and the obsidians responded that it were working as intended.  the trap math as a whole were wonky but it didn't become apparent when there were other ways to boost accuracy and when we were only playing levels 4-8. traps has been adjusted multiple times since release.  this were not a bug, but it were an oversight.

 

petrify were also altered despite the fact that it weren't bugged.

 

cipher focus were not bugged but it became obvious that it were excessive.  hell, all during the beta we had folks joking that a cipher with leadbitter could max focus with one opening salvo.  weren't a bug, just took obsidian a while to address.

 

etc.

 

wanna look at the list o' post release rebalancing?  is more than a few abilities that is still disproportionate powerful.  

 

*shrug*

 

observation: the overpowered nature o' priests were not "obvious" to you during the beta. silly rabbit.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

One day, just one day, I hope I'll see a post from you that's not a strawman. You're talking about balancing, pull in the issue of trap Accuracy and cipher focus. I was talking about the very obvious bug of Mechanics contributing to Seals.

 

You shall henceforth be known as Strawnir.

Edited May 30, 2015 by Luckmann

[Gromnir]

...

 

mindboggling.  how can you still not know what is strawman?  is this an internet thing?  didn't we go through this in both the respec and codex review threads?

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps 'cause luckman still not get what happened it seems, seal spell accuracy did not use spell accuracy but rather used trap accuracy.  the math were complete different from spell accuracy.  priests did not enjoy any greater benefit from mechanics than would a rogue or chanter or mage using a physical trap.  it weren't a bug.  the problem were traps.

 

pps for educational and review purposes, we add the following link:

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/78279-rpgcodex-review-1-hŵrpa-dwrp/?p=1674203

 

don't use words 'less you know what they mean.

Edited May 30, 2015 by Gromnir

[Luckmann]

...

 

mindboggling.  how can you still not know what is strawman?  is this an internet thing?  didn't we go through this in both the respec and codex review threads?

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps 'cause luckman still not get what happened it seems, seal spell accuracy did not use spell accuracy but rather used trap accuracy.  the math were complete different from spell accuracy.  priests did not enjoy any greater benefit from mechanics than would a rogue or chanter or mage using a physical trap.  it weren't a bug.  the problem were traps.

Oh, poor Strawnir, flailing like a sinking crash-dummy.

 

I think the best part is where you say I haven't understood the issue, then describe the exact issue as I already explained it, and then go on to detail the bug, ending it all with saying that wasn't a bug.

 

It's been a known bug since forever. It likely had to do with how those spells were modeled after traps to begin with, and the issue was just too far down on the list of priorities that it wasn't fixed until now.

[Gromnir]

 

...

 

mindboggling.  how can you still not know what is strawman?  is this an internet thing?  didn't we go through this in both the respec and codex review threads?

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps 'cause luckman still not get what happened it seems, seal spell accuracy did not use spell accuracy but rather used trap accuracy.  the math were complete different from spell accuracy.  priests did not enjoy any greater benefit from mechanics than would a rogue or chanter or mage using a physical trap.  it weren't a bug.  the problem were traps.

Oh, poor Strawnir, flailing like a sinking crash-dummy.

 

I think the best part is where you say I haven't understood the issue, then describe the exact issue as I already explained it, and then go on to detail the bug, ending it all with saying that wasn't a bug.

 

It's been a known bug since forever. It likely had to do with how those spells were modeled after traps to begin with, and the issue was just too far down on the list of priorities that it wasn't fixed until now.

 

ignoring your strawman claim and just barreling ahead, eh?

 

irony.  we described why mechanics + traps weren't a bug.  priests got no more benefit from the mechanics accuracy boost to their spell traps than did any character using a physical trap.  is why we were told that it were working as intended.  is only two people we ever saw raise this issue during the beta, and you weren't one o' them.  were more than a few threads complaining about bugs making X or Y class overpowered, yes?  show us the ones that identified priests as overpowered.   show where you claimed this were a bug during the beta.  show where obsidians noted it were a bug.

 

if this were such a well-known and obvious bug, surely you will find considerable pre-release evidence, no? Gromnir and some guy named ushsomethingorother. 

 

so, show us.

 

HA! Good Fun!