How to fight?

[Axcel]

Hello,

I have finished dragon age origins on most difficult level (called nightmare probably), played many cRPGs, also those from planescape times. But have nooooo idea how to fight in Pillars of eternity. I loose fights on easy mode and I stuck on fight in Readrik VII stronghold right now. Couldn't win this. Obviously I am using some skills, have dressed best items which I have found. No clue how to play this game, completely. Whole battleground is unreadable for me when there is more than 3 npc. About fight I know only from small window, where is written what is going on. xD Looking at chars I have no clue about anything. Who they fight with, what dmg they do, if they are in trouble.

 

Please provide some basic informations about tactic. I would like to ass that I have no skill for curing. Is this essential or at least important in PoE?

Should I buy 100 chickens or sth and eat them every 10s or things like this? How to play?

 

http://i.imgur.com/Lwr8vy8.jpg

[Tigranes]

Basic mechanics guide: 

 

From your screenshot: 

 

(1) You're in the middle of nowhere surrounded by the enemy, which is a bad idea in any kind of fight, real life or fantasy. Manage your space. 

(2) Half your party members are fatigued, which makes them much less accurate and easier to hit. Hover your cursor over the various conditions characters have - don't ignore them. 

(3) You can pick up a priest called Durance in Magran's Fork, but you don't necessarily need a healer.

 

I think your issues go much deeper than that right now. I don't know what they are, especially if you can handle DAO on nightmare, but you'll need to tell us more about what you're doing and what's going wrong.

[Crucis]

If you don't really know how to fight in this game, going to Raedric's castle with less than at least 5 characters in your party isn't a good idea.  6 is even better.

 

Also, as Tigranes said above, you desperately NEED to use the terrain to your advantage, whether you're out in the wilderness or in a castle.  Do NOT stand out in the open and let the enemy surround you.  Oh, sometimes even when you try your best to prevent it, the enemy will get into your rear.  But don't LET them do it by standing out in the open.  Use chokepoints, such as doorways to limit the ability of the enemy to get around your flanks.

 

Also have your best armored warriors up front in your formation and your softest, least armored (probably spellcasters) hiding behind them.  Use your best armored warriors to form a wall to prevent the enemy from flanking you.  Sometimes, if you're lucky, you can do this with only one character.  But sometimes you may need as many as 2, 3, or even 4 to create a wall to block the enemy from getting to your spellcasters.

[luzarius]

Heh, I remember how frustrating this game was when I first played it. Give it time and you'll love it. The combat keeps getting more and more in depth as you play.

 

You'll be playing on Path of the Damed in no time, given the fact you did Nightmare in DAO.

[Drath]

Raedric's Hold is a difficulty spike for where it is placed in game as you could be attempting it as early as around L4 with a 4-5 man party. I went to Defiance Bay first and came back later at about L7 with a full 6-man party and things were much smoother.
Open ground fights like the one you are showing are especially tough but you don't necessarily have to kill everyone there (no XP anyway for killing humans, unless you're in it for the loot, or for kicks ). There are other ways into Raedric's Hold but I will let you find that out for yourself.

As Crucis mentioned, use chokepoints whenever possible to reduce incoming damage and try to kill off casters (mages in particular will wreak havoc on your lines if not taken down fast) and archers (tends to target squishier party members and adds significantly to incoming damage) first.

Apart from a couple of limited use per rest talents, the only thing that restores health is resting. Priests like Durance can restore endurance during battles. But personally I've found that for most battles if you can keep your squishier party members safely tucked away behind lines, you shouldn't need battle heals too much as Eder's Constant Recovery will help keep him up.

[Rosveen]

I don't remember this particular battle (is it when you try to storm the keep head on?), but would it be possible to move your team back to the cart, creating a kind of a chokepoint there? The way you're positioned, almost everyone got engaged in melee. Aloth especially can't take it. What class is your PC (not the ranger, the other one)? Looks sturdy from the endurance value, might work well as a frontliner with Eder.

[player1]

Raderic keep shouldn't really be done "guns blazing" if you are not skilled in the game.

 

There are other ways to handle the keep.

[abaris]

I don't remember this particular battle (is it when you try to storm the keep head on?), but would it be possible to move your team back to the cart, creating a kind of a chokepoint there? The way you're positioned, almost everyone got engaged in melee. Aloth especially can't take it. What class is your PC (not the ranger, the other one)? Looks sturdy from the endurance value, might work well as a frontliner with Eder.

 

You can reach that point whichever approach you have chosen. It's not dependent on the point of entry. But as has been said, this looks Gung Ho without any thoughts on terrain, fatigue or party composition. A sure recipe for a premature demise.

[Lightzy]

split your party into tanks who will stand in front and absorb damage, and DPS damage dealers who will stand in the back and shoot and cast spells

 

The tanks you put in the heaviest armor and give them minimum STR

 

The DPS guys you give max dex and str, but 3 on other stats, no armor at all for max speed

 

game won!

[View619]

You can mix and match your party with creative synergies and succeed, or be a sheep and constantly bleat that there's no way to play but min-maxing tank and spank and ruin your experience. If you have no experience with the BG or IWD series, check out Sensuki's guide posted above which gives a pretty solid overview of the system.

 

Positioning is important in this game, letting yourself get surrounded like your image shows is a sure-fire way to failure. Try to control the space that the enemies can take with engagement and the terrain (choke-points, barriers, etc).

Edited May 17, 2015 by View619

[Crucis]

Raedric's Hold is a difficulty spike for where it is placed in game as you could be attempting it as early as around L4 with a 4-5 man party. I went to Defiance Bay first and came back later at about L7 with a full 6-man party and things were much smoother.

Open ground fights like the one you are showing are especially tough but you don't necessarily have to kill everyone there (no XP anyway for killing humans, unless you're in it for the loot, or for kicks ). There are other ways into Raedric's Hold but I will let you find that out for yourself.

 

As Crucis mentioned, use chokepoints whenever possible to reduce incoming damage and try to kill off casters (mages in particular will wreak havoc on your lines if not taken down fast) and archers (tends to target squishier party members and adds significantly to incoming damage) first.

 

Apart from a couple of limited use per rest talents, the only thing that restores health is resting. Priests like Durance can restore endurance during battles. But personally I've found that for most battles if you can keep your squishier party members safely tucked away behind lines, you shouldn't need battle heals too much as Eder's Constant Recovery will help keep him up.

 

I agree that if you wait until your party is level 7, this quest will go a LOT easier.  That said, it can be done by a level 4-5 party without too much difficulty, particularly if ...

 

 

You don't fight Raedric and his closest associates, and come to an agreement with him ... even if you intend to deal with him later.

 

 

Raedric's guardsmen and other minions aren't all that difficult to deal with, if you know what you're doing. 

 

That said, the OP clearly doesn't know what he's doing at this point.  However, given how little he understands about combat mechanics, I might suggest that he keep playing, learning, and reading posts here on the forum until he gets a better handle on the combat system, and then perhaps restart.  Just a suggestion.

 

On another point.  Assuming a 6 person party, and fancier formations aside, I tend to go with this general sort of formation.  Think of 3 rows of 2.

 

X...X

X...X

X...X

 

The first row is for my best armored warriors.  The guys I want holding the line against the first enemy rush.

 

The second row is for characters who can go both ways, ranged or melee.  And depending on the circumstances, they may hang back and use ranged weapons.  Or if there's a LOT of enemy melee-ers seeking to flank the front line, these guys may move to the front to widen that front line to try to engage more enemies and block them from getting to my back row guys, my squishiest spellcasters.

 

And the 3rd row is for my squishest spellcasters that I don't want in melee, given any choice.

 

If is the job of the front two rows to protect the spellcasters, because those spellcasters are the team's heavy artillery, so to speak.  The spellcasters may not do as much overall damage as others on the team.  But they have the ability to do "crowd control" with their various area effect spells.

[Crucis]

I don't remember this particular battle (is it when you try to storm the keep head on?), but would it be possible to move your team back to the cart, creating a kind of a chokepoint there? The way you're positioned, almost everyone got engaged in melee. Aloth especially can't take it. What class is your PC (not the ranger, the other one)? Looks sturdy from the endurance value, might work well as a frontliner with Eder.

 

The OP is in the courtyard of Raedric's castle.  The reality is that there's no need to go there on this quest unless your purpose is to kill every last guardsman that Raeric has (for the loot perhaps).  And I wouldn't go out there unless your party is quite healthy and has a mostly full "gas tank" of spells on your spellcasters.  There are a pretty heft number of guardsmen in that courtyard, and a good deal of crowd control that will need doing.

 

Also, if one really wants to do the courtyard area, it's a lot better, I suspect, to do it by crossing the moat's bridge than by coming out the door to the keep, since doing that puts you in the midst of a bunch of guardsmen with no choke points to use for crowd control.

[Varana]

A major issue, I think, that differs from the IE games and DA:O, as well: Don't run around during combat. Disengagement attacks (Attacks of Opportunity, in DnD-speak) are vicious in PoE. If your back row is attacked, you can't just draw back one of the fighters. You can't just run over to the next enemy because he's low on health and only needs a few hits. You don't lure an enemy to your front line just by running there. And so on.

 

And some other differences. It's PoE, not any other game.

 

But not only that. Also, for Edér to be that low on health, the party must have been fighting for a while. This is madness. Go rest! This fight isn't strictly necessary, and even if you want to do it: You still have camping supplies left. Go rest!

 

Take your time. Don't just rush in there. Standing in the middle of an open courtyard is not the best of tactics. I'm not sure how someone playing DA:O on that difficulty could make that error.

[Nakia]

Stealth is your friend I use it a lot.  I start with the dungeon entering through the sewer.   I have done the final battle with Raedric at level 5 with a party of six.

[abaris]

 

 

Also, if one really wants to do the courtyard area, it's a lot better, I suspect, to do it by crossing the moat's bridge than by coming out the door to the keep, since doing that puts you in the midst of a bunch of guardsmen with no choke points to use for crowd control.

 

 

It's also pretty safe to attack from the ramparts. I would argue, it's safer taking that door and luring the crowd to you than coming from the moat, which attracts much more at once aggro.

 

And it's absolutely manageable at level 4. At least on normal difficulty.

Edited May 17, 2015 by abaris

[Crucis]

 

 

 

Also, if one really wants to do the courtyard area, it's a lot better, I suspect, to do it by crossing the moat's bridge than by coming out the door to the keep, since doing that puts you in the midst of a bunch of guardsmen with no choke points to use for crowd control.

 

 

It's also pretty safe to attack from the ramparts. I would argue, it's safer taking that door and luring the crowd to you than coming from the moat, which attracts much more at once aggro.

 

And it's absolutely manageable at level 4. At least on normal difficulty.

 

 

I gotta disagree.  Coming out the keep door will cause you to be surrounded on 3 sides with no ability to limit your frontage.  If you come through the castle's front gate, you can somewhat limit your frontage.  Sure, it's a wide gate, but they'll still be coming at you from ahead, and not starting on your front, left and right.

 

 

[Crucis]

Stealth is your friend I use it a lot.  I start with the dungeon entering through the sewer.   I have done the final battle with Raedric at level 5 with a party of six.

 

I usually enter the castle by climbing the vines in the NW corner.  But either way works for a stealthy strategy.

[abaris]

 

 

 

 

Also, if one really wants to do the courtyard area, it's a lot better, I suspect, to do it by crossing the moat's bridge than by coming out the door to the keep, since doing that puts you in the midst of a bunch of guardsmen with no choke points to use for crowd control.

 

 

It's also pretty safe to attack from the ramparts. I would argue, it's safer taking that door and luring the crowd to you than coming from the moat, which attracts much more at once aggro.

 

And it's absolutely manageable at level 4. At least on normal difficulty.

 

 

I gotta disagree.  Coming out the keep door will cause you to be surrounded on 3 sides with no ability to limit your frontage.  If you come through the castle's front gate, you can somewhat limit your frontage.  Sure, it's a wide gate, but they'll still be coming at you from ahead, and not starting on your front, left and right.

 

 

I wasn't talking about the keep door, I was talking about coming from the ramparts.

[peddroelm]

here's some videos of my melee party portd playtrough  https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFWnpbmrXTorPq2IYDZR_MgiDCnevkm20

 

Just reached Raedric's keep - should be up in the next episode.. Sory about the sound volume in the first episode - should be better in the next ones ..

 

And about the terrain - with a melee party you will need to draw enemies into open ground - so you can bring all your (melee)"guns" to bear  ..

[roller12]

You are likely underleveled as the game doesnt scale. Go grind some exp elsewhere first. Raedric castle is no different than any other encounter - Archer down the mages, clean up the others. I crushed them all at lvl4 or 5, dont remember, no consumables and no difficulties at all.

 

Screenshot - go get 2 more people, it only takes like 2 minutes to get them if you go East from

Gilded Vale, just go East a couple of maps on the road and you will get a Priest(healer) and a chanter(buffer)

 

 

And concentrate fire, on your screenshot 5 people are attacking 5 enemies, thats not very efficient.

Edited May 18, 2015 by roller12

[JONNIN]

POE is designed around 3 or 4 basic ideas.

 

1) positioning.   The idea is to block the enemy with your tough front like "tanks"  who can take a lot of hits.  You do NOT want to let enemy get behind you to stick swords into your mage.  Its possible to make your mage tough enough to handle it but that takes being an expert player and is outside the scope of  "first play through" level of gaming.

 

2) buffs and debuffs.   Things like using your priest to buff everyone's DR and deflection, and debuffing the enemy so they are easier to hit and take more damage. 

 

3) damage dealing.   You need at least 2, if not 3, hard hitting characters.  That means someone with max accuracy and high might, as a starting point (if you want a full list of how to improve damage, see threads on the subject).

 

4) priority targets.  About half the fights in the game involve an enemy spell caster or two.  Kill those first.  One trick is to have 6 slow to use hard hitting ranged weapons equipped and to fire one round from all your guys at the casters before switching to your standard weapons (your ranged characters may or may not use the slow hitters for standard, but your tanks need to get out their shield and so on..).   Its amazing how trivial the throne room fight becomes if you kill the archmage(s) first.

 

Fight specific: dont go up the stairs to his throne.  Position in the room on the side (either side works) and send one spell caster to attack someone with a spell from "below".  Run the caster back and fight them at the room's door, where they can't get past your tanks.     Green targets (friendly until talking) can always be attacked with certain spells which turns them red.  I forget which ones work, but for sure the cipher's blind strike and the priest's halt work.