In progress patch notes for 1.0.5- big buff for Wizards and buff for Ciphers (lol...), a lot of strange nerfs to everything else, couple of fixes.

[Climhazzard]

Why was soul shock nerfed?  I didn't realize it was OP, if anything I didn't use it much because it didn't really feel that strong.

[Climhazzard]

I am pretty disappointed that the problem with the enemy Paladin's in the Noonfrost area wasn't fixed.  

[MadDemiurg]

Why was soul shock nerfed?  I didn't realize it was OP, if anything I didn't use it much because it didn't really feel that strong.

Same reason as mind blades. Both are (where) lazy mediocre spells that do damage without putting much effort into it. Soul shock wasn't hurt as badly though as it's meant to be cast on a tank surrounded by enemies anyway.

[Atchod]

 

Why was soul shock nerfed?  I didn't realize it was OP, if anything I didn't use it much because it didn't really feel that strong.

Same reason as mind blades. Both are (where) lazy mediocre spells that do damage without putting much effort into it. Soul shock wasn't hurt as badly though as it's meant to be cast on a tank surrounded by enemies anyway.

 

lets make them spells that doesnt do anything then , why not 

 

the secret art of "balance" is way beyond me :/

Edited May 2, 2015 by Atchod

[omgFIREBALLS]

I could have sworn I read that lockpicking exp was gone.

 

With formatting quotes it's bothersome to just isolate one line. Remove the line before, no now the whole quote background disappeared (have to backspace the linebreak from the line before ._.). I actually spent 30-60 sec isolating what I quoted from the mega quote block, and then it still added empty lines at the bottom of the quote.

[MadDemiurg]

 

 

Why was soul shock nerfed?  I didn't realize it was OP, if anything I didn't use it much because it didn't really feel that strong.

Same reason as mind blades. Both are (where) lazy mediocre spells that do damage without putting much effort into it. Soul shock wasn't hurt as badly though as it's meant to be cast on a tank surrounded by enemies anyway.

 

lets make them spells that doesnt do anything then , why not 

 

the secret art of "balance" is way beyond me :/

 

I don't agree on these nerfs either. I was just picking soul shock to be lazy. It's antipathetic field all the way now (it's much stronger anyway). Probably I shouldn't have posted this, it will be nerfed in 1.06 now.

[Atchod]

heh :D about not posting ... i dunno i just want to post that we should enjoy 1.05 with wizzards before the nerfbat on 1.06 while we can ( HERE I DID IT ), but i am afraid 1.05 as it is will never go live then , implying that Obsidian reads these discussions and i mean real obsidian not forum moderators :D 

Edited May 2, 2015 by Atchod

[Luckmann]

 

One more reason to be a gognobleman as opposed to a steampeasant. :D

the steampeasants get their patches first

 

 

There's actually a word for that.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_taster

 

[Climhazzard]

Playing with the beta patch.  Gaze of the Adragan, with 18 intelligence, has a 14 second duration now, which if I recall correctly is a pretty decent nerf (undocumented).  The attack roll is vs fortitude...  was it previously vs will?

[Raven Darkholme]

Was always fort def.

[Schyzm]

 

I do not understand this one? You cannot load while playing trial of Iron anyway & they cant mean quitting. If you quit during combat it still wont save?

You can load a different party's save, and then load the ToI save again. It's not a huge setback since ToI still autosaves upon area transitions.

 

However, I think this is a rather hopeless battle for Obsidian to fight. Is it still going to force-save if I quit the game? Okay, what if I force close the game? Even then? What if I flick my computer's power switch? Surely the only real solution is to save every second, and that would probably be unplayable on most systems.

 

And even then, you can just backup the save file yourself and put it back when the original gets deleted because you lost. So the next step would be to camouflage the ToI saves, which still can only get them so far because they're still on our hard drives, of which we are the kings and queens. There would be anger, and someone would figure out how to access the save files anyway.

 

Wait, why anger? Because... well, partly because some people can't cheat their achievement, I suppose. But remember also that a reload (or save-game-edit) can often fix a bug. For example, on one ToI run, after the spore fight in Anslög's Compass, my tank was permanently knocked down. I couldn't move him around at all. Perhaps there's a fix, but a reload was one I didn't have to search for, and after a re-enactment of some glorious sporestomping, I could proceed with my adventures... only to have them ended an hour later by a volatile combination of shades and hubris, but still.

 

Reloading just got a little harder. Now I'm certain they won't really take any hefty steps to prevent ToI cheating, because these little hacks, while enabling us to cheat, also let us undo the harm of bugs when we're quick to notice them. And in the end, we have the ultimate power over our saves, not Obsidian.

 

I actually backup ToI saves myself, right after reaching Gilded Vale and recruiting the custom party I intend to use. It's cheating to a degree, I won't argue it, but without it I probably wouldn't play much at all. Unless someone makes a Dungeon-Be-Gone mod for PoE, perhaps.

 

In other news, formatting quotes is annoying on these forums and my signature will need a replacement when the patch hits.

 

 

I actually like this, I agree there will always be ways around it, and the ways probably will never get too convoluted, but this works more on a gradient than people think. the harder it is the better people will naturally feel when they do it, and the more legitimate it will become, even if ultimately you can sly your way around it.  

 

as of right now I simply assume no one does trial of iron(not to say it hasn't been done), and therefore my perception of difficulty to some extent ends at potd/expert mode.

[Fessels]

I just noticed the post date of the Beta thread Voltron linked to, that is almost two weeks? And they are still not releasing it on steam? ( And on GoG soon after for those who have that version. ) Do not miss understand me, I understand things need to be tested to get the bugs out as much as possible, but if it is still going to take quit some time then at the very least remove or edit the line "NOTE: The 1.05 beta will be released later today if our initial tests come back positive." Especially when the thread was posted almost two weeks ago. 

 

It is nitpicking I know, but still. ( I can be odd that way at times. )

[basketofseals]

I REALLY don't understand this trend of MMO style patches in single player games. If an ability isn't completely useless or horribly breaking a game, does it really need changing? I can adapt and change to patches easily, but I can't really say my experience has been improved by any patching.

[Sanctuary]

I REALLY don't understand this trend of MMO style patches in single player games. If an ability isn't completely useless or horribly breaking a game, does it really need changing? I can adapt and change to patches easily, but I can't really say my experience has been improved by any patching.

 

Not sure that's actually what's going on here, even if the actual gameplay kind of feels somewhat MMOish at times.  It's more like they are fixing issues that weren't noticed or simply not commented on as much when there were way less people (beta) playing the game.  Or there were things that they didn't feel were quite right just prior to launch, but didn't have the time to fix yet.  I don't really see it so much as a "nerfing" a class into the ground and more like actually bringing them closer in line to the other classes, so they aren't always the "obvious" choice for most situations.

 

Most of these changes are actually improvements to classes anyway.  In the case of the Cipher; they already far outclassed most classes at everything other than tanking anyway.  Even with their changes, they're still going to be one of the "must have" classes for a group.  This game isn't balanced around solo anyway.

Edited May 2, 2015 by Sanctuary

[ramses01]

Good patch.

 

What planet do you live on? This patch has essentially rendered the game unplayable due to massive nerfs.

[basketofseals]

 

I REALLY don't understand this trend of MMO style patches in single player games. If an ability isn't completely useless or horribly breaking a game, does it really need changing? I can adapt and change to patches easily, but I can't really say my experience has been improved by any patching.

 

Not sure that's actually what's going on here, even if the actual gameplay kind of feels somewhat MMOish at times.  It's more like they are fixing issues that weren't noticed or simply not commented on as much when there were way less people (beta) playing the game.  Or there were things that they didn't feel were quite right just prior to launch, but didn't have the time to fix yet.  I don't really see it so much as a "nerfing" a class into the ground and more like actually bringing them closer in line to the other classes, so they aren't always the "obvious" choice for most situations.

 

Most of these changes are actually improvements to classes anyway.  In the case of the Cipher; they already far outclassed most classes at everything other than tanking anyway.  Even with their changes, they're still going to be one of the "must have" classes for a group.  This game isn't balanced around solo anyway.

 

Yes, but as a single player game, what does it matter to me how "balanced" a game is? I'm not competing against anyone, so what does it matter?

 

I'm not talking about changes to things that are completely over/underwhelming and making them less so, but things like nerfs to fan of flames and stag horn are really the kind of nitpicky things that I feel design time would be spent better elsewhere.

 

Also there is no "must haves" in this game. The game is easy enough even on hard mode with the default companions. I also roleplay pretty strictly, so I'm even leaving a ton of sidequests/XP/items behind, and it's STILL easy. If people are worried about heavy min/maxing, they're gonna blow through the game with no problem even with minor nerfs.

[Althernai]

I REALLY don't understand this trend of MMO style patches in single player games. If an ability isn't completely useless or horribly breaking a game, does it really need changing? I can adapt and change to patches easily, but I can't really say my experience has been improved by any patching.

 

Not sure that's actually what's going on here, even if the actual gameplay kind of feels somewhat MMOish at times.  It's more like they are fixing issues that weren't noticed or simply not commented on as much when there were way less people (beta) playing the game.  Or there were things that they didn't feel were quite right just prior to launch, but didn't have the time to fix yet.  I don't really see it so much as a "nerfing" a class into the ground and more like actually bringing them closer in line to the other classes, so they aren't always the "obvious" choice for most situations.

I'm pretty sure what basketofseals pointed out is exactly what is going. This feels very much like the changes MMOs make: they're nerfing things which were powerful and buffing things which were weak in an effort to get more abilities to be close to average. I don't like it at all, but I've given up on any hope of the game being different in this regard. Despite having mechanics that are similar to Baldur's Gate 2 (six person party, real time with pause, etc.), the philosophy behind combat in this game (balance, items, etc.) is completely different from that of BG2 and is in fact very similar to that of MMOs. This patch is merely the logical extension of this philosophy.

[azmodael]

I just noticed the post date of the Beta thread Voltron linked to, that is almost two weeks? And they are still not releasing it on steam? ( And on GoG soon after for those who have that version. ) Do not miss understand me, I understand things need to be tested to get the bugs out as much as possible, but if it is still going to take quit some time then at the very least remove or edit the line "NOTE: The 1.05 beta will be released later today if our initial tests come back positive." Especially when the thread was posted almost two weeks ago. 

 

It is nitpicking I know, but still. ( I can be odd that way at times. )

 

The document was created on the 21th, but it together with the beta was made public only two days ago.

[the streaker]

I don't get the complaints about the nerfs. Even if I didn't feel they were warranted (which I do), if the game becomes too hard on you because you were relying on your cipher so much, just turn the difficulty down to easy or whatever, and be on your merry way. The nerfs would only have  made the game unplayable if even easy mode wasn't doable with the rebalanced skills, and that will definitely not be the case. The only thing this really would affect is maybe stop some less that stellar players from beating POTD.

[Sanctuary]

 

I REALLY don't understand this trend of MMO style patches in single player games. If an ability isn't completely useless or horribly breaking a game, does it really need changing? I can adapt and change to patches easily, but I can't really say my experience has been improved by any patching.

 

Not sure that's actually what's going on here, even if the actual gameplay kind of feels somewhat MMOish at times.  It's more like they are fixing issues that weren't noticed or simply not commented on as much when there were way less people (beta) playing the game.  Or there were things that they didn't feel were quite right just prior to launch, but didn't have the time to fix yet.  I don't really see it so much as a "nerfing" a class into the ground and more like actually bringing them closer in line to the other classes, so they aren't always the "obvious" choice for most situations.

I'm pretty sure what basketofseals pointed out is exactly what is going. This feels very much like the changes MMOs make: they're nerfing things which were powerful and buffing things which were weak in an effort to get more abilities to be close to average. I don't like it at all, but I've given up on any hope of the game being different in this regard. Despite having mechanics that are similar to Baldur's Gate 2 (six person party, real time with pause, etc.), the philosophy behind combat in this game (balance, items, etc.) is completely different from that of BG2 and is in fact very similar to that of MMOs. This patch is merely the logical extension of this philosophy.

 

Why act as if we are living in 1998 still, where one-and-done was about all you'd get?  Do you honestly believe that if BG and BG2 had been developed just now that they wouldn't be getting similar treatment?  Bioware has progressively been doing this with their more recent games as well.

 

Both of your posts just come off as whine posts, because you seem to enjoy using blatantly much stronger abilities to get you through the game and you don't want there to be parity among classes.  Even with these changes, you still have classes like the Chanter, Ranger and Paladin.  Would you rather they remained as bad as they are, just so you can keep playing with the same "broken" abilities?

 

Balance has nothing to do with competition in this case, aside from the fact that there are multiple classes vying for your attention.  It seems to me that you would be fine with having just three or four classes in the game that are super strong, instead of having nine or eleven that are comparatively strong.  The former sounds super boring to me.  Plus, why did they even bother creating the other classes if no one is going to care about using them?  This isn't like the previous IE like games where you had a very large pool of classes to draw from.  Even if a handful truly stunk, you still had a wide selection of those that didn't.

Edited May 2, 2015 by Sanctuary

[Fessels]

The document was created on the 21th, but it together with the beta was made public only two days ago.

 

Okay that is a good explanation, so they simply forgot to change the date then two days ago, thanks azmodael.

[Raven Darkholme]

 

Good patch.

 

What planet do you live on? This patch has essentially rendered the game unplayable due to massive nerfs.

 

Where I live cheese don't grow on trees.

[Althernai]

Why act as if we are living in 1998 still, where one-and-done was about all you'd get?  Do you honestly believe that if BG and BG2 had been developed just now that they wouldn't be getting similar treatment?  Bioware has progressively been doing this with their more recent games as well.

This is absolutely true and it is part of the reason I generally don't buy Bioware games anymore. Since PoE was advertised as a spiritual successor to the IE games, I hoped that it would buck the trend.

Both of your posts just come off as whine posts, because you seem to enjoy using blatantly much stronger abilities to get you through the game and you don't want there to be parity among classes.  Even with these changes, you still have classes like the Chanter, Ranger and Paladin.  Would you rather they remained as bad as they are, just so you can keep playing with the same "broken" abilities?

You misunderstand. PoE is not a difficult game. I played on Hard and even without fully understanding the rules and selecting sub-optimal spells, talents, etc., I only needed to reload several times at on the order of 5 encounters and practically never used any of the consumables because I was saving them for harder battles. I didn't use most of the patched abilities or items and the ones that I did use I can certainly continue using even in the patched state or simply do without.

 

The issue is not difficulty, it is about how rewards are structured. Think about the extreme scenario which is more or less implemented in many MMOs. The game is extremely well balanced and abilities are constantly tuned based on how effective they are to keep any from being too powerful or too weak. Items are also extremely balanced with every item restricted by level so you can't use those to become too powerful either. The result is that while the game does reward the player with greater power, it is done in a very measured way and, since the enemies tend to also become powerful in the same measured way, the result is best described as a treadmill. I personally found this OK at first, but it gets old very quickly.

 

To be fair, PoE is at quite some distance from this extreme. It does have some unique items which differ from the standard enchanted ones in a meaningful way (though there will be fewer of them after the patch...) and some talents and spells likewise make a much larger difference than the usual ones (the largest probably being the strange but interesting change to caster mechanics at level 9). However, it does come close enough to it for rewards to become monotonous. Yes, the best items in the game are unique and better than the next best, but they're only marginally better. PoE is never going to surprise you by handing you an item that dramatically alters the power of a single character, let alone the party as a whole. Contrast this with BG2, the most famous items of which (the Robe of Vecna, the Flail of the Ages, the Cloak of Mirroring and quite a few others) were ridiculously overpowered, but the game was nevertheless still fun.

[qweqwe]

.

Edited May 2, 2015 by qweqwe

[Voltron]

I also don't get this nerf/balance so one class is not obvious choice.

 

I finished game two times with Retal OSA fire goldlike barbarian- super OP broken build. I HAD TONS OF FUN to feel like a boss in single player game.

 

Then I finished it solo with Monk two times and they are no broken at all, cool class.

First time I played PoE on Hard I finished it with Cipher.

 

Now I am playing with Sniper Arquebus war veteran Rogue class with party and I have tons of fun like with my retal barb.

 

So I ask- what is wrong with having broken OP builds like OSA barbarian. I played it, it was fun. Got bored, I play with other classes. Next game I plan with Paldin. There is no PvP here, no Leaderboard- nothing force me to take most OP build or go home, you will be rekted.

 

It was already shown here that Paladin can finish Triple Crown, Monk, Cipher, Wizard, Rogue. So I have no idea why people have such issue with OP things.

 

It like they don't want someone else to have easier time than them with diffrent class. Like that matters in SP game where nobody gives a dam about your achievements.

 

Hell, we all can use cheats and IE mod commands in our games, playing with 30 Might, 100 Accuracy Ranger! YOU DO NOT KNOW! And why that should bother me??

 

I also refuse this MMO-like balancing in SP game. Laughtable.