Journalism and Bias in the Gaming Industry

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

The mechanics of the game are equal for every NPC, you take that away and you negate player agency. No longer will the PC be able to shoot women or survive their backlash, so for every encounter or when they're driving they should be careful not to incur the wrath of the godmode uterus.

 

I quite frankly, like my games free from ideological interference.

 

 

Could we not do the strawmanning?

 

It's not like there is no other way to notify the player that within the game world, blowing a prostitute's brains out after paying her for services rendered, is rightfully considered to be ****ed up, without making women unkillable. I mean, being willing to draw the kind of heat such murders would logically incur, for what's basically pocket change, should be the equivalent of walking around with "I'M MENTALLY UNSTABLE AND HAVE ZERO CAPACITY FOR LONG-TERM THINKING" written on your forehead, and even purely from a verisimilitude standpoint, every questgiver NPC should treat you accordingly.

[Fighter]

Killing the prostitute to get your money back isn't a portrayal. It's player choice. She's portrayed as a prostitute, the rest is up to you.

 

If you do it, why you do it, what you take away from the experience, is entirely on you and your responsibility.

[Volourn]

"So what about a game like Hatred ? Where the developers say they created it because they are tired of everyone being politically correct but in fact the game is just about gratuitous violence and certain  people will buy the game just  because large sectors of society are appalled by it and criticize it?

 

Are you guys fine with this type of game ?"

 

Yes.

 

 

"But is a low budget and excessively gory horror movie the same as a game that people produce? They are similar but are they the  same thing...I guess the main difference being the game is much more interactive and you get to determine the story as opposed to sitting and watching or listening to something...I'm just not sure if this is relevant ?"

\

Jack Thompson, is that you?   Trying to claim that games are 'different' than movies because you play them while movies are passive is stupid. Playing a violent video game doesn't make you violent. You play violent games, Bruce, are you violent?  COME ON. As an actual gamer you should know that kind of nonsense is bullcrap.

 

 

"Seems a bit strange that GG would have any women as a mascot considering how the movement feels about women and treats them ?"
 

GG doesn't hate women. Anti GG does. This has been proven repeatedly yet you ignore it.

 

 

"She does make certain cogent points, that cannot be denied"
|

She's a flat our lair and a fraud.  She also hates your precious Obsidian and Bioware. LMAO

 

 

"Unlike what our experience in first grade has taught us, calling people who don't agree with us names does not count as a coherent argument about why they're wrong."

 

L0L You anti GGers REALLY need a mirror.

 

 

"This is the stupidest thing I've heard in a long time."
 

Calling a woman stupid. Why do you hate women?

[Calax]

 

 

The mechanics of the game are equal for every NPC, you take that away and you negate player agency. No longer will the PC be able to shoot women or survive their backlash, so for every encounter or when they're driving they should be careful not to incur the wrath of the godmode uterus.

 

I quite frankly, like my games free from ideological interference.

 

 

Could we not do the strawmanning?

 

It's not like there is no other way to notify the player that within the game world, blowing a prostitute's brains out after paying her for services rendered, is rightfully considered to be ****ed up, without making women unkillable. I mean, being willing to draw the kind of heat such murders would logically incur, for what's basically pocket change, should be the equivalent of walking around with "I'M MENTALLY UNSTABLE AND HAVE ZERO CAPACITY FOR LONG-TERM THINKING" written on your forehead, and even purely from a verisimilitude standpoint, every questgiver NPC should treat you accordingly.

 

Here's the crux of it.

 

They do... it's why you get a wanted level in the game for killing people. And you obviously haven't played the game we're discussing.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

 

 

The mechanics of the game are equal for every NPC, you take that away and you negate player agency. No longer will the PC be able to shoot women or survive their backlash, so for every encounter or when they're driving they should be careful not to incur the wrath of the godmode uterus.

 

I quite frankly, like my games free from ideological interference.

 

 

Could we not do the strawmanning?

 

It's not like there is no other way to notify the player that within the game world, blowing a prostitute's brains out after paying her for services rendered, is rightfully considered to be ****ed up, without making women unkillable. I mean, being willing to draw the kind of heat such murders would logically incur, for what's basically pocket change, should be the equivalent of walking around with "I'M MENTALLY UNSTABLE AND HAVE ZERO CAPACITY FOR LONG-TERM THINKING" written on your forehead, and even purely from a verisimilitude standpoint, every questgiver NPC should treat you accordingly.

 

Here's the crux of it.

 

They do... it's why you get a wanted level in the game for killing people. And you obviously haven't played the game we're discussing.

 

 

And you obviously haven't understood a word of what I've been writing.

[Volourn]

By the way, that female writer you bash so hard is 1000% awesome.  Why do you hate intelligent women so much yet support such hateful trash like  McIntosh-Sarkessian who are ignorant nazi  worser than ISIS anti women anti minority pieces of crap?

\

\If you are pro equality you would NOT be a SJW.

[Calax]

 

 

 

 

The mechanics of the game are equal for every NPC, you take that away and you negate player agency. No longer will the PC be able to shoot women or survive their backlash, so for every encounter or when they're driving they should be careful not to incur the wrath of the godmode uterus.

 

I quite frankly, like my games free from ideological interference.

 

 

Could we not do the strawmanning?

 

It's not like there is no other way to notify the player that within the game world, blowing a prostitute's brains out after paying her for services rendered, is rightfully considered to be ****ed up, without making women unkillable. I mean, being willing to draw the kind of heat such murders would logically incur, for what's basically pocket change, should be the equivalent of walking around with "I'M MENTALLY UNSTABLE AND HAVE ZERO CAPACITY FOR LONG-TERM THINKING" written on your forehead, and even purely from a verisimilitude standpoint, every questgiver NPC should treat you accordingly.

 

Here's the crux of it.

 

They do... it's why you get a wanted level in the game for killing people. And you obviously haven't played the game we're discussing.

 

 

And you obviously haven't understood a word of what I've been writing.

 

You're asking for the entire game world to treat you like a violent sociopath because the game gives the option of acting like one. You're asking for a perfect game that adjusts the outside world based upon the players choice within the game world of how to play. This is a flat out impossibility, but two of the characters are treated as violent psychopaths as part of gameplay, and storyline. That's why I said you haven't played the game at all, because if you played, you'd know that Trevor is treated as a violent psychopath from the get go and just keeps going.

 

Or are you asking for there to be gameplay killing consequences for the murder of a hooker? Where you are dragged through the modern day real-world legal process including the years behind bars, all in the name of making women feel like the protected unicorns they are?

 

You're trying to say that Anita's correct in her discussions and that all of these examples she gives are correct and that men are misogynistic rapists at the drop of a hat (or at least that's what I've been getting from your posts and various veiled insults you toss out), and therefor women in game world should have serious consequences attached to the bodily harm of their bodies.

 

Here's the thing bucko, in GTA V the amount of money you spend/retrieve from a hooker (if you want to put that much work into the damn side bit) is absolutely trivial. It's a case of "Bill gates loses more money turning around to retrieve a dropped 1000 bucks than he does just keeping going". Because if you kill the hooker to get your 50 bucks back (or whatever) you might have to fight off a police chase, plus you're spending the bullet, which costs a pile in GTA land, and you could just go drive a taxi or a tow truck for thirty minutes and get your hooker money back 10 fold.

 

In the Hitman Absolution example (of the gameplay she showed anyway) your score takes SIGNIFICANT hits from killing innocents. The entire point of the game is to get in, kill your target without being noticed, and get out without disturbing anyone. In the context of the scene she displayed, the player went deliberately out of his way to beat up the women in that back room, and drag their bodies around. But Anita still treats it like it's unpunished because you don't have a magical security guard show up and shoot you in the head for even thinking about it.

 

THAT is why people hate Anita and those who espouse her views. BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO ****ING CLUE WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT within the context of the games. Anita is no better than Fox News in this

 

[aluminiumtrioxid]

You're asking for the entire game world to treat you like a violent sociopath because the game gives the option of acting like one. 

 

 

I'm asking for the entire game world to treat the player like a violent sociopath if said player behaves like a violent sociopath. (And by "treating the player like a violent sociopath" I mean "this actually having tangible effects instead of being a cosmetical thing".)

 

I don't think it's an entirely unreasonable expectation.

 

 

 

You're trying to say that Anita's correct in her discussions and that all of these examples she gives are correct and that men are misogynistic rapists at the drop of a hat (or at least that's what I've been getting from your posts and various veiled insults you toss out), and therefor women in game world should have serious consequences attached to the bodily harm of their bodies.

 

 

 

If you're making unsubstantiated claims, at least have the common courtesy to go through the effort of trying to make it look like there's some semblance of a connection between what you claim to have been said and what actually has been said.

 

But okay, I get it, it's late, reading comprehension took a hit, how about we get some sleep and return to the subject tomorrow?

 

 

 

in GTA V the amount of money you spend/retrieve from a hooker (if you want to put that much work into the damn side bit) is absolutely trivial.

 

 

Which was part of my entire point earlier?

 

Anyways, time to get some shut-eye. It's been a lovely exchange of ideas.

Edited May 12, 2015 by aluminiumtrioxid

[Calax]

 

Btw. I don't appreciate your wild assumptions regarding my character and goals, and since I'm refraining from calling you, say, a vile misogynist scumbag who only wants to oppress and rape women, I'd be grateful if you extended the same courtesy (of not strawmanning based on lazy outgroup stereotypes) to me.

 

Thanks for the evidence mate.

 

Again, the very fact you don't play the games you're trying to say are sexist, just makes you sound like the Fox people without the benefit of Geoff Keighly in that clip about Mass Effect.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

 

Btw. I don't appreciate your wild assumptions regarding my character and goals, and since I'm refraining from calling you, say, a vile misogynist scumbag who only wants to oppress and rape women, I'd be grateful if you extended the same courtesy (of not strawmanning based on lazy outgroup stereotypes) to me.

 

Thanks for the evidence mate.

 

Again, the very fact you don't play the games you're trying to say are sexist, just makes you sound like the Fox people without the benefit of Geoff Keighly in that clip about Mass Effect.

 

 

It's a miracle you ever managed to learn how to read (albeit not too well, it seems).

 

I have no idea how you managed to equate calling the practice of labelling GGers bad names "strawmanning based on lazy outgroup stereotypes" (something I actually did) with actually endorsing/engaging in said strawmanning, but I suspect poor reading skills must have played a role.

 

When you factor in the fact that I haven't called any game sexist in this topic, like, at all, this theory of semi-literacy seems even more plausible!

Edited May 13, 2015 by aluminiumtrioxid

[Calax]

Actually no, I'm just assuming that you have the same views as Anita because you're defending her points. As part of that you're making comments about how a games world reacts to the players, while obviously having no knowledge of such a world, and having a mythical idea of how a game should work vs how a game can actually be made to work.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

Actually no, I'm just assuming that you have the same views as Anita because you're defending her points.

 

 

Which I'm not doing; man, nuance being utterly lost on you seems like a running theme. I do apologize for my earlier outburst, but surely you must understand how frustrating it is for me to write about something and have you responding to something else entirely.

 

 

having a mythical idea of how a game should work vs how a game can actually be made to work.

 

Yes, I'm very sure it would be incredibly hard for the game to keep track of civilian casualties and have certain NPCs' attitudes change based on that number. Oh wait, it's a mechanic that's been a staple of gaming since, well, pretty much forever (PST sure had it).

[Orogun01]

 

Actually no, I'm just assuming that you have the same views as Anita because you're defending her points.

 

 

Which I'm not doing; man, nuance being utterly lost on you seems like a running theme. I do apologize for my earlier outburst, but surely you must understand how frustrating it is for me to write about something and have you responding to something else entirely.

 

 

 

having a mythical idea of how a game should work vs how a game can actually be made to work.

 

Yes, I'm very sure it would be incredibly hard for the game to keep track of civilian casualties and have certain NPCs' attitudes change based on that number. Oh wait, it's a mechanic that's been a staple of gaming since, well, pretty much forever (PST sure had it).

 

Perhaps you could explain yourself better, sometimes I write something abstract thinking a particular example which leads to misinterpretation. It would help to know exactly what you're thinking about.

 

People have given you examples of how the game world reacts to your bad behavior, yet you seem to have something different in mind. Could you explain what you mean?

[ravenshrike]

 

Anita is correctly labeled a con artist because she has yet to finish even stage one of the youtube videos she was paid six figures to create. She scammed money out of people but because her politics are correct(and here I'm reminded of the old joke about many small blood sucking insects) she gets a complete pass.

 

 

 

That is false, there are a bunch of her videos up on youtube.  She is also clearly committed to the premise of her campaign, rather than sitting on a beach sipping margaritas (which is what I would do if I was a con man.)

 

Just like the game Hatred, she has a freedom of expression and if she can get people to pay her for that, then bully for her.   

 

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/566429325/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games/video_share

 

Now, show me Youtube videos for the first five videos on that list.

 

 

$250 reward

38 backers

A DVD copy of all Tropes vs. Women in Video Games episodes in the web series. PLUS all of the above!

Estimated delivery:  

Dec 2012

 

2 years, 4 and a half months late and counting. The ****ing definition of con artist. As I ****ing said, the ONLY reason she gets a pass is because of her politics.

 

 

 

Addendum - The Producers was meant to be a comedy, not an instruction manual.

Edited May 13, 2015 by ravenshrike

[Hurlshort]

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/566429325/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games/video_share

 

 

Now, show me Youtube videos for the first five videos on that list.

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6p5AZp7r_Q

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toa_vH6xGqs

 

 

You can go on her website for a ton of more content.  Honestly I haven't watched them and don't really care about her viewpoint, but I think it's weird that you call her a con artist.  If you are an actual backer who is unhappy with what she delivered, then you might have some ground to stand on.  As is, you look like you are grasping for straws instead of criticizing her work, as Calax is doing.  

Edited May 13, 2015 by Hurlshot

[ravenshrike]

 

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/566429325/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games/video_share

 

 

Now, show me Youtube videos for the first five videos on that list.

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6p5AZp7r_Q

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toa_vH6xGqs

 

 

You can go on her website for a ton of more content.  Honestly I haven't watched them and don't really care about her viewpoint, but I think it's weird that you call her a con artist.  If you are an actual backer who is unhappy with what she delivered, then you might have some ground to stand on.  As is, you look like you are grasping for straws instead of criticizing her work, as Calax is doing.  

 

So, in order to point out corruption and con artistry I have to be part of whatever is being criticized? Where does that come in? As for the ton more content, none of the content for FF is relevant to her TvW series. And I notice that you still haven't been able to point out videos 1-5. That was video one.

[Fighter]

I'm asking for the entire game world to treat the player like a violent sociopath if said player behaves like a violent sociopath. (And by "treating the player like a violent sociopath" I mean "this actually having tangible effects instead of being a cosmetical thing".)

 

I don't think it's an entirely unreasonable expectation.

 

1) It is unreasonable for a game the size and scope of GTA.

 

2) Why? Judge your own actions. Why do you need the author to tell you right from wrong? Why do you need the virtual world to be policed?

Edited May 13, 2015 by Fighter

[Malcador]

Most games won't do that as it just impacts the fun of it if you accidentally off some 'innocent' NPC and now apparently the entire world is out for you, after finding out somehow. Perhaps it's also skipped as it may be tedious to implement and ensure it's not some massive bug waiting to happen. I think that most games I've played that allow you to kill people do have some sort of response set in - reputation loss or guards or bounty hunters.

 

The idea of GTA having police want you forever because you killed some hooker is a bit amusing, goes against the spirit of that game
But even so, no one is making you kill people for no reason or even incentivizing it. Certainly is possible, though tricky to complete the game in a 'clean' manner where you don't ice a tonne of innocent people. 

 

That entire episode was pretty weak, though I will re-read it, background NPCs are background NPCs and have no depth. Surprise!

[Blarghagh]

Actually, how awesome would it be if GTA implanted something reactive, like the Shadows of Mordor nemesis system? You kill mob boss, mob puts out reward and you get a bunch of bounty hunters on your tail. You kill random woman, her badass commando son comes to take it out on you.

[Meshugger]

Actually, how awesome would it be if GTA implanted something reactive, like the Shadows of Mordor nemesis system? You kill mob boss, mob puts out reward and you get a bunch of bounty hunters on your tail. You kill random woman, her badass commando son comes to take it out on you.

 

Mods will fix it.

[Malcador]

Actually, how awesome would it be if GTA implanted something reactive, like the Shadows of Mordor nemesis system? You kill mob boss, mob puts out reward and you get a bunch of bounty hunters on your tail. You kill random woman, her badass commando son comes to take it out on you.

Would this persist for the rest of the game or just the rest of your life ?

[Fighter]

Actually, how awesome would it be if GTA implanted something reactive, like the Shadows of Mordor nemesis system? You kill mob boss, mob puts out reward and you get a bunch of bounty hunters on your tail. You kill random woman, her badass commando son comes to take it out on you.

 

Reactivity like that would absolutely be awesome for immersion. But it is different from pushing for the game world to be policed like that because the player's pretend crimes need to be punished. Sounds like scolding for thoughtcrime.

 

GTA gamifies crime with it's very basic star system. It is sorely lacking depth sure but there is no malice.... And here we are discussing it like it's something that needs to exist at all. Which it doesn't, it's a nice feature. But people can think about what they are doing and how they feel about it for themselves.

Edited May 13, 2015 by Fighter

[Meshugger]

 

Actually, how awesome would it be if GTA implanted something reactive, like the Shadows of Mordor nemesis system? You kill mob boss, mob puts out reward and you get a bunch of bounty hunters on your tail. You kill random woman, her badass commando son comes to take it out on you.

Would this persist for the rest of the game or just the rest of your life ?

 

 

The game will create a fake Twitter account based of the person killed, which will then attack your real Twitter, Facebook and Instagram-accounts. Then it will create other sock-puppet accounts, which will then be used to sealion everything you do online. Choices & consequences, bitch.

 

Game on!

Edited May 13, 2015 by Meshugger

[Malcador]

The game will create a fake Twitter account based of the person killed, which will then attack your real Twitter, Facebook and Instagram-accounts. Then it will create other sock-puppet accounts, which will then be used to sealion everything you do online. Choices & consequences, bitch.

 

Game on!

Hopefully Rockstar includes something like that in GTA6. Gotcha culture should be in bloom by the time that's on.

[Hurlshort]

So, in order to point out corruption and con artistry I have to be part of whatever is being criticized? Where does that come in? As for the ton more content, none of the content for FF is relevant to her TvW series. And I notice that you still haven't been able to point out videos 1-5. That was video one.

 

 

 

You are nitpicking.  She has produced a ton of content and her backers are not complaining.  

 

I've seen a number of kickstarters raise more money and produce less.  I'm still waiting on my games from the Space Quest and Quest for Glory people.  Why aren't you railing about Lori and Corey Cole being con artists?  They just started a second kickstarter without even finishing the first game, you'd have a much better argument there.

 

And holy moly, that 75 minutes of video was only covering one topic?  Yikes.  I am glad I don't watch this rubbish.