Underwhelming Rogue Abilities (skills)

[Veynn]

Aside from the "Stealth" skills, anybody find Withering Strike and Fearsome Strike underwhelming? 

 

Don't get me wrong, their debuffs look good on paper. But if you build your Rogue to be a crit monster, you wont even have to use these skills.

 

Anybody has a non-crit monster Rogue build out there who uses these skills?

[Heijoushin]

Uh... there are plenty of non-amazing skills that aren't necessary.

Those two at least allow you to use sneak attacks through status afflictions. That's not so bad if you have nothing better to take.  

[Voltron]

Rogue would be great if not for stupid requirements of Sneak Attack-

Enemy need at least specific condition on him, or two if you want more damage (sneak attack upgrade talent)- two. In first case this should be ANY CONDITION, not only those mentioned in skill description or just an attack from behind (so it can work solo) and in second it should be just passive damage increase without stupid two conditions requirements.

 

Second problem is backstab- only when you are invisible. Which means only 2x Shadowing Beyond-> Backstab combo. And then rest…but no! You need camp supplies! If Shadowing Beyond was per encounter and 3x it would be better since you could eliminate top priority targets with Sneak Attack + Backstab plus possible Critic attack.

 

Also what Rogue miss are some sort of bombs/mines/traps that could inflict conditions (stun, paralyze etc) on enemies to synergize best with his Sneak Attack Bonuses.

 

Or if he can summon a Shadow of himself, which can’t be killed during duration but also do not inflict any damage. But thanks to it you can inflict “flanked” on enemies 1x per encounter.

 

Rogue is nice in theory, but when you play it you see how maps and some requirements and some talents execution prevent you from playing a truly Rogue/backstabber and you find yourself too many times being a inferior warrior in first line.

[knownastherat]

Blinded, Flanked, Hobbled, Paralyzed, Petrified, Prone, Stuck, Stunned and Weakened are the listed condition. How many more are there? Besides, such conditions should probably be on target anyway regardless of whether rogue can exploit them or not. And flanked? I've seen people comment that Backstab is not backstab. Rogue lives in flank so that is essentially any condition.

[Veynn]

Blinded, Flanked, Hobbled, Paralyzed, Petrified, Prone, Stuck, Stunned and Weakened are the listed condition. How many more are there? Besides, such conditions should probably be on target anyway regardless of whether rogue can exploit them or not. And flanked? I've seen people comment that Backstab is not backstab. Rogue lives in flank so that is essentially any condition.

 

Frightened, Terrified, Dazed, Confused, Dominated, Sickened, Charmed. 

[knownastherat]

Well, as I said if rogue is in flank its irrelevant. Its possible that such design decision was made but that is what it is. Its not like there is truth to be found.

[SilchasRuin]

While these two skills are relatively worthless, particularly Fearsome strike which, while it gives two debuffs is also per rest and single target, they're hardly the only worthless skills in the game, I can think of more than a few. As to sneak attack being bad or hard to get off... All I can say is that if you're having a hard time keeping a target primed for sneak attack you're either deliberately gimping yourself by making poor decisions with your casters, or have placed a rogue into a very suboptimal party.

Edited April 22, 2015 by SilchasRuin

[Veynn]

Well, as I said if rogue is in flank its irrelevant. Its possible that such design decision was made but that is what it is. Its not like there is truth to be found.

 I agree. But what about Ranged Rogues? Does Flanked happen even in Ranged?

 

Tank-Enemy--------------------------------Ranged

Edited April 22, 2015 by Veynn

[knownastherat]

Good point. Seems different talent could fix it. Backstab works with Ranged .. 2m lol

[Veynn]

As I see it, maybe thats why you need sneak attack conditions for ranged sneak attacks. I'll test it later if there's such a thing as ranged flanking.

[Voltron]

Shadowing Beyond per encounter would be first great step to improve Rogues. I am waitning for such a mod. There are already mods for some other skills to be per encounter, so I think it is matter of time only.

[Veynn]

 

Nope. No Ranged Flanking.

[voad1]

I am sure it is the same for all clases. Barbs have brute force, threatening presence, yell, shout, thick skinned is meh at best.

[Veynn]

I am sure it is the same for all clases. Barbs have brute force, threatening presence, yell, shout, thick skinned is meh at best.

 

Yes I know every class have their fair share of useless skills. It's just I'm experimenting with the Rogue at the moment.

Edited April 22, 2015 by Veynn

[Veynn]

I also believe that Crippling Strike was also made for the Ranged Rogue since it debuffs the move speed of the enemy. And at the same time it creates the condition for it's own sneak attack, especially if you're going solo. So I really don't think sneak attack conditions are pointless. It also creates a mechanic just like conditions for Monks and Cipher to execute their skills.

Edited April 22, 2015 by Veynn

[MoxyWoo]

Personally love the alpha of a ranged rogue with their 2 second window at the start of combat.  Many enemies have just exploded from this alone without needing to cue up any skills with a BFG or Arbalest.  After that, its just using the crippling strike to down one enemy at a time, or take down all the other enemies that are meeting the sneak requirements.

 

Mostly, I just think there's a lot to do with 6 classes, and getting old... So love the auto attack nature of some of them like the rogue who gives out a lot of pain.

[Idleray]

Rogue would be great if not for stupid requirements of Sneak Attack-

Enemy need at least specific condition on him, or two if you want more damage (sneak attack upgrade talent)- two. In first case this should be ANY CONDITION, not only those mentioned in skill description or just an attack from behind (so it can work solo) and in second it should be just passive damage increase without stupid two conditions requirements.

 

Second problem is backstab- only when you are invisible. Which means only 2x Shadowing Beyond-> Backstab combo. And then rest…but no! You need camp supplies! If Shadowing Beyond was per encounter and 3x it would be better since you could eliminate top priority targets with Sneak Attack + Backstab plus possible Critic attack.

 

Also what Rogue miss are some sort of bombs/mines/traps that could inflict conditions (stun, paralyze etc) on enemies to synergize best with his Sneak Attack Bonuses.

 

Or if he can summon a Shadow of himself, which can’t be killed during duration but also do not inflict any damage. But thanks to it you can inflict “flanked” on enemies 1x per encounter.

 

Rogue is nice in theory, but when you play it you see how maps and some requirements and some talents execution prevent you from playing a truly Rogue/backstabber and you find yourself too many times being a inferior warrior in first line.

 

Rogues dominate when it comes to single target dps.

 

It's actually kind of stupid.

 

Your post makes no sense whatsoever.

 

My Rogue is sneak-attacking practically 95% of the time. The remaining 5% is when I'm too lazy to apply debuffs.

 

Keeping debuff uptime on enemies is easy when you have 6 guys, so unless you're soloing you're doing it wrong.

[MadDemiurg]

Ranged flanking works if other 2 characters (or phantom forces) do the flanking.

[Veynn]

Ranged flanking works if other 2 characters (or phantom forces) do the flanking.

 

True. But what if there's no other melee person to do the flanking, or in this case no Cipher? This is why sneak conditions are under the guise of debuffs or status effects.

[peddroelm]

Ranged flanking works if other 2 characters (or phantom forces) do the flanking.

Thin Ranger can actually do it with Pet and appropriate talent. 

http://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Stalkers%27_Link

[Voltron]

 

Rogue would be great if not for stupid requirements of Sneak Attack-

Enemy need at least specific condition on him, or two if you want more damage (sneak attack upgrade talent)- two. In first case this should be ANY CONDITION, not only those mentioned in skill description or just an attack from behind (so it can work solo) and in second it should be just passive damage increase without stupid two conditions requirements.

 

Second problem is backstab- only when you are invisible. Which means only 2x Shadowing Beyond-> Backstab combo. And then rest…but no! You need camp supplies! If Shadowing Beyond was per encounter and 3x it would be better since you could eliminate top priority targets with Sneak Attack + Backstab plus possible Critic attack.

 

Also what Rogue miss are some sort of bombs/mines/traps that could inflict conditions (stun, paralyze etc) on enemies to synergize best with his Sneak Attack Bonuses.

 

Or if he can summon a Shadow of himself, which can’t be killed during duration but also do not inflict any damage. But thanks to it you can inflict “flanked” on enemies 1x per encounter.

 

Rogue is nice in theory, but when you play it you see how maps and some requirements and some talents execution prevent you from playing a truly Rogue/backstabber and you find yourself too many times being a inferior warrior in first line.

 

Rogues dominate when it comes to single target dps.

 

It's actually kind of stupid.

 

Your post makes no sense whatsoever.

 

My Rogue is sneak-attacking practically 95% of the time. The remaining 5% is when I'm too lazy to apply debuffs.

 

Keeping debuff uptime on enemies is easy when you have 6 guys, so unless you're soloing you're doing it wrong.

 

 

Each to his own. My experiance was quite different. My Rogue was doing insane good DPS on single target enemy however I did not like that I had to applie debuffs using my other party members or to use summons. It is not like I don’t like it because I like solo game. No.

 

It is because Rogue do not feel like class that can stand to his own in game without baby sitting by other classes/items. You see, I NEED other party members to applie debuffs/flank so I can use my talents, not to do Maximum damage, but just increased damage in general. And need to rest after each fight if I want to have fun with Backstab (Shadowing Beyond).

 

With Cipher I can do my own stuff with nobodies help, same with Fighter, Barbarian, Paladin, Chanter etc.

 

However with Rogue I need this party to applie debuffs on groups enemies, resting to recharge Shadowing Beyond, to get flanking I need other party member or at least figurines (more resting, more camping supplies).

 

I am not saying that Rogue is impossible to play as. However when I played one I mostly felt like I play more with other classes to apply proper debuffs, summon creatures behond enemies (flanked status) etc. to finally do with Rogue what I need to do. With other classes, I can be boosted by other party members, but I can do my “class stuff” without anyone else. Rogue is VERY depending on others (debuffs, flanked).

 

So I hope I explained it little better. I like the concept of Rogues (to hit harder weakened enemies) but I don’t like execusion, when I can’t meet requirements of my own skills alone. That is why I think some bombs or traps/mines that could AOE debuff would be nice for Rogue. Sure, I can give one enemy 2 conditions once per encounter to have more dmage on him or use figurine to do it also. However 95% time in this game you fight against group of enemies.

 

I just don’t like feeling like a “fire that make barrel explode” rather than “barrel that explode with fire”.

Edited April 22, 2015 by Voltron

[B4nJ0]

Are you just saying that the most retarded top meter DPS class in the game is not good enough?

Re-think :V

You can both build a very decent dps ranged build that require only 1 debuff

 

or

 

you can go for the 2 debuff build

 

It's just up to you and party composition.

 

And I found the rogue to be one of the best designed class atm, at least he got variance. The main problem are not rogue features and feast, the main problem is that A LOT of the other classes features / feat are HORRIBLE so you can't build around them.

 

Buff useless feats first, then maybe work a bit on this class as well. But nerfing everything to the ground, up to a point that u force people to just take +accuracy feats is NOT a good solution.

Edited April 22, 2015 by B4nJ0

[MadDemiurg]

Honestly I don't see where this "uber rogue dps" everyone's talking about is coming from, especially if you use a ranged rogue. Is it because the loading tooltip says they do the most damage? This is not true.

 

The only really good rogue features are SA (don't see the issue with it requiring debuffs tbh, they are easy to come by), Reckless assault (melee only) and Deathblows (great, but this is lvl 11). Shadowing beyond is good for solo cheese (i'd rather have it only working in a party, but more accessible, like per encounter), but otherwise negligible. The rest of the kit is either mediocre or outright trash.

Edited April 22, 2015 by MadDemiurg

[knownastherat]

From sneak attack and crits. If I wanted to play ranged rogue I would play ranger and get pet on top. Now that is cheese.

[MadDemiurg]

Sneak attacks are only +50% dmg. Many other classes have comparable +dmg and +attack speed modifiers. Not to mention abilities/spells. That's not that huge. 20% hit to cit conversion is like 10% extra dps for a talent and a class ability.

 

And yeah, I don't really see the point of rogue without reckless assault, would rather roll a cipher or maybe even ranger(regardless of the multitude of complaints on how underpowered they are compared to rogues) instead.

Edited April 22, 2015 by MadDemiurg