wizard - guns or wand/scepter/rod ?

[thestigma]

Hey all,

 

What do you think is an optimal build for a wizard (for POTD) when it comes to weapon choice?

 

You can go blast, which nets you weak AoE on auto-attack, including decent DR override, although implements in themselves do seem a little weak-ish. I guess you can maximize blast by using a scepter/wand as they are fast - but I don't think blast scales by their damage, so more attacks = better.

 

Alternatively there is the option of guns. Guns are pretty good on their own - but they also combo with so many things. There is the marksman trait (more accuracy is king), and gunner for faster reload - also the chanters faster reload chant is golden for a party with many guns.

 

What opinions are there on this?

 

-Stigma

[Vasya]

Do you want weapon for attacking when you are out of spells and when you dont want to waste spells or you want to make wizard into proper ranged damage dealer?

[thestigma]

Well, it's for dealing damage when not casting obviously... I mean, you don't have unlimited spells, and when you do run out of spells you aren't well suited to much aside from ranged DPSing what you can.

 

If I wanted a pure range-DPS I'd do a ranger or ranged rogue I guess, but that's not really the question.

 

-Stigma

[Kaigen42]

Guns provide better damage, but there's a significant recovery period after each shot during which you cannot use abilities/cast spells. This may delay your spellcasting, causing complications if you need to get a spell off quickly. Whether that's an issue depends on your play style.

 

You could always keep an implement in one slot and a gun in the other. Use the implement while casting and switch to the gun when it looks like you don't need to sling spells any more. Marksman should benefit both equally.

[Maximvs]

When your wizard reach high levels, he's gonna have about 10-12 per encounter abilities. He won't be using his gun much then.

[Exoduss]

Shield without penalties with some 1 hander for me 

[Enexemander]

I think optimal dps in longer engagements is a Wizard taking the blast talents that uses the Minor Blights spell (often coupled with other offense boosting spells, like Deleterious Alacrity and Eldritch Aim). Additionally, the blast talents only apply to wands, rods and scepters, (and Blights, apparently) so if you want to do that combo you're going to want to use one of those weapon types as your primary.

 

I'm not sure if the Blights themselves count as weapons for weapon focus purposes, but from what I've read the Minor Blights count as wands.

It should work with Dangerous Implements as well.

Edited April 15, 2015 by Enexemander

[Vasya]

I think optimal dps in longer engagements is a Wizard taking the blast talents that uses the Minor Blights spell (often coupled with other offense boosting spells, like Deleterious Alacrity and Eldritch Aim). Additionally, the blast talents only apply to wands, rods and scepters, (and Blights, apparently) so if you want to do that combo you're going to want to use one of those weapon types as your primary.

 

I'm not sure if the Blights themselves count as weapons for weapon focus purposes, but from what I've read the Minor Blights count as wands.

 

It should work with Dangerous Implements as well.

The problem with blast talents is that they are effective when there are many enemies, which means that you are probably not out of spells yet. Well, if you have second wizard you can just give him the job of controlling enemies at the start of the fight while you go full dps with minor blights and then switch to controlling when your second wizard is out of spells.

Edited April 15, 2015 by Vasya

[Nadrac]

With no talents not wand/specter/rod, they suck by themselves, anything better, pistol/arquebus is ok because it trades crit you wouldn't do anyway for dr bypass, but their slowness might mess with casting, you can always just use a bow, or run in do some melee in some cases, pretty much use any good gear your teammates don't care for. Above all you need accuracy because you not only start with only 20 but also very likely don't take any talents to boost it.

 

With 1 talent investment wand/specter/rod is great, blast talent is strong.

 

Spells to consider

Kalakoth's Minor Blights

Citzal's Spirit Lance

 

[Enexemander]

 

I think optimal dps in longer engagements is a Wizard taking the blast talents that uses the Minor Blights spell (often coupled with other offense boosting spells, like Deleterious Alacrity and Eldritch Aim). Additionally, the blast talents only apply to wands, rods and scepters, (and Blights, apparently) so if you want to do that combo you're going to want to use one of those weapon types as your primary.

 

I'm not sure if the Blights themselves count as weapons for weapon focus purposes, but from what I've read the Minor Blights count as wands.

 

It should work with Dangerous Implements as well.

The problem with blast talents is that they are effective when there are many enemies, which means that you are probably not out of spells yet. Well, if you have second wizard you can just give him the job of controlling enemies at the start of the fight while you go full dps with minor blights and then switch to controlling when your second wizard is out of spells.

 

 

Well, there are multiple ways to control enemies. There's no reason to put that all on your wizard if you have other means available. Scrolls are available to anyone with a decent lore skill, for example. Ciphers get a paralyze and aoe stuck at spell level 2. Etc.

 

But anyway, I only mention minor blights because it synergizes with wand talents. Since the OP is asking about the best weapons for wizards, I'd have to say it's the types that have talents only wizards can take- the blast talents.

[Vasya]

 

 

 

Well, there are multiple ways to control enemies. There's no reason to put that all on your wizard if you have other means available. Scrolls are available to anyone with a decent lore skill, for example. Ciphers get a paralyze and aoe stuck at spell level 2. Etc.

Well, if it's a really hard fight where there is many enemies that can wreck your party in few seconds if left alone, then it's either wizard or some scrolls. And some scrolls are just legitimized cheats.

[knownastherat]

 

 

 

 

Well, there are multiple ways to control enemies. There's no reason to put that all on your wizard if you have other means available. Scrolls are available to anyone with a decent lore skill, for example. Ciphers get a paralyze and aoe stuck at spell level 2. Etc.

Well, if it's a really hard fight where there is many enemies that can wreck your party in few seconds if left alone, then it's either wizard or some scrolls. And some scrolls are just legitimized cheats.

 

 

So how do you figure that? Legitimized cheats. Is there any guide or rule book I could read up so I would not unintentionally use them? Point me the right direction if you can I am lost.

[Vasya]

 

 

 

 

 

Well, there are multiple ways to control enemies. There's no reason to put that all on your wizard if you have other means available. Scrolls are available to anyone with a decent lore skill, for example. Ciphers get a paralyze and aoe stuck at spell level 2. Etc.

Well, if it's a really hard fight where there is many enemies that can wreck your party in few seconds if left alone, then it's either wizard or some scrolls. And some scrolls are just legitimized cheats.

 

 

So how do you figure that? Legitimized cheats. Is there any guide or rule book I could read up so I would not unintentionally use them? Point me the right direction if you can I am lost.

 

Common sense. If you can't figure out why +15 accuracy 10 sec paralyze on whole screen usable by anyone with lore is not really balanced, i can't help you.

[Thrasher91604]

Just listen to everything Vasy tells you to do. Who needs a rulebook?

Edited April 15, 2015 by Thrasher91604

[knownastherat]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, there are multiple ways to control enemies. There's no reason to put that all on your wizard if you have other means available. Scrolls are available to anyone with a decent lore skill, for example. Ciphers get a paralyze and aoe stuck at spell level 2. Etc.

Well, if it's a really hard fight where there is many enemies that can wreck your party in few seconds if left alone, then it's either wizard or some scrolls. And some scrolls are just legitimized cheats.

 

 

So how do you figure that? Legitimized cheats. Is there any guide or rule book I could read up so I would not unintentionally use them? Point me the right direction if you can I am lost.

 

Common sense. If you can't figure out why +15 accuracy 10 sec paralyze on whole screen usable by anyone with lore is not really balanced, i can't help you.

 

 

You really can't.

[Ouroboros226]

Hey OP. 

I made a wood elf /w marksman and gunner with 20dex using robe only for 0% recovery penalty. The plan was to play a gunslinger (though currently used arbalest) wizard that relied on the Wizard buffs (eldritch aim, defensive buffs, crit buff and ultimately combat form for another +20 accuracy and dex) to create an arcane archer of sorts which could also use CC.

So the plan was to use spells for buffs that benefited ranged combat, and using weapon for damage instead of spells and instead use the leftover spells for CC. However - I found out that increased action speed from dex does NOT REDUCE RELOAD SPEED. (For whatever illogical reason the devs decided this).

So I'm rerolling a melee wizard instead now. The Idea of a ranged wizard is fun imo, but if dex does not reduce reload speed the entire idea is imo ruined. The whole point of 0% recovery + max action point gunslinger / ranged wizard is to reduce reload speed. 

Point is: You are better off just using spells for damage and blast + autoattack, and if you do decide to make a wizard based on weapon damage - melee is probably better than ranged (again due to reload speed).

[BrickleberryPi]

With no talents not wand/specter/rod, they suck by themselves, anything better, pistol/arquebus is ok because it trades crit you wouldn't do anyway for dr bypass, but their slowness might mess with casting, you can always just use a bow, or run in do some melee in some cases, pretty much use any good gear your teammates don't care for. Above all you need accuracy because you not only start with only 20 but also very likely don't take any talents to boost it.

 

With 1 talent investment wand/specter/rod is great, blast talent is strong.

 

Spells to consider

Kalakoth's Minor Blights

Citzal's Spirit Lance

 

I never used the spirit lance before, it's basically a close range weapon like the leaching staff, right?

[Climhazzard]

For me, minor blights always makes it so my wizard can't use any abilities anymore, even after the battle is long over and I've started a different one, not sure what i'm doing wrong there.  In my opinion wizards suck at ranged attacks that aren't spells, and should stick to talents that keep them alive or make their spells stronger, but if you really want to attack stuff in between casting spells then use wands/rods/scepters since wizards have talents that support their use.  They'll certainly speed up the early game, they don't make much difference after level 9 though.

Edited April 16, 2015 by Climhazzard

[thestigma]

Hey OP. 

 

I made a wood elf /w marksman and gunner with 20dex using robe only for 0% recovery penalty. The plan was to play a gunslinger (though currently used arbalest) wizard that relied on the Wizard buffs (eldritch aim, defensive buffs, crit buff and ultimately combat form for another +20 accuracy and dex) to create an arcane archer of sorts which could also use CC.

 

So the plan was to use spells for buffs that benefited ranged combat, and using weapon for damage instead of spells and instead use the leftover spells for CC. However - I found out that increased action speed from dex does NOT REDUCE RELOAD SPEED. (For whatever illogical reason the devs decided this).

 

So I'm rerolling a melee wizard instead now. The Idea of a ranged wizard is fun imo, but if dex does not reduce reload speed the entire idea is imo ruined. The whole point of 0% recovery + max action point gunslinger / ranged wizard is to reduce reload speed. 

 

Point is: You are better off just using spells for damage and blast + autoattack, and if you do decide to make a wizard based on weapon damage - melee is probably better than ranged (again due to reload speed).

 

Even if it doesn't reduce reload speed it surely reduced the cooldown - and the cooldown is typically much longer than the actual reload for the shot, so I don't see why that isn't viable. Besides - with a chanter you can buff the reloading speed too if you want.

 

-Stigma

[Exoduss]

Wizards dont do guns bros okay.... they dont ... unless your wizard has 0 spells left to cast there is always a better choice from range than to fire a gun , be it a Slicken or Confusion or Fireball or Expose Weakness anyting just not a single target gun shot thats just fail to do with wizard when you can spend that time to knock 10 enemies down all at once , why would you fire 1 shot with a gun instead of this mass CC ? 

[Ouroboros226]

Wizards dont do guns bros okay.... they dont ... unless your wizard has 0 spells left to cast there is always a better choice from range than to fire a gun , be it a Slicken or Confusion or Fireball or Expose Weakness anyting just not a single target gun shot thats just fail to do with wizard when you can spend that time to knock 10 enemies down all at once , why would you fire 1 shot with a gun instead of this mass CC ? 

Or compromise. Since the gun reload is so long why not just cast spells while its reloading, then fire again, spell, fire - etc.

[fced]

Guns provide better damage, but there's a significant recovery period after each shot during which you cannot use abilities/cast spells. This may delay your spellcasting, causing complications if you need to get a spell off quickly. Whether that's an issue depends on your play style.

 

You could always keep an implement in one slot and a gun in the other. Use the implement while casting and switch to the gun when it looks like you don't need to sling spells any more. Marksman should benefit both equally.

 

That's exactly why I have a problem with the Grieving Mother, I wanted to give her a gun as a lot of users advise it, but I notified when she is reloading she don't cast any spell, she can't, so I gave her the soul bound bow, but the Grieving Mother AI is my other problem because she start to cast a spell after one shot, so she will never use her better spells because with a bow she don't have enough focus to cast Rank 7 spells...

And for my wizards, I give them a wand, or a rod, but I prefer a wand, more fast to attack, and as someone (on the forum) made me notify, wands are better for the blast talent... The more fast you fire, the more blast you use... 

Edited November 28, 2017 by fced