Whos better dps Mork or Barb?

[nemesis205bw]

Yes it appears it only really applies to wizard and not cipher

No, you are still wrong. 1 knockout on wizard vs 5 knockouts on monk is 66% remaining health vs 16% remaining health...

Edited April 16, 2015 by nemesis205bw

[Climhazzard]

 

Yes it appears it only really applies to wizard and not cipher

No, you are still wrong. 1 knockout on wizard vs 5 knockouts on monk is 66% remaining health vs 16% remaining health...

 

 

Were talking total health remaining here not percentage of health remaining, and I said 1.5 which sort of meant he'd have to take 150% of his endurance in damage.

[nemesis205bw]

 

 

Yes it appears it only really applies to wizard and not cipher

No, you are still wrong. 1 knockout on wizard vs 5 knockouts on monk is 66% remaining health vs 16% remaining health...

 

 

Were talking total health remaining here not percentage of health remaining, and I said 1.5 which sort of meant he'd have to take 150% of his endurance in damage.

 

Dont fuk with me please. Its your post:

A monk could get knocked out 5 times in a row and still have nearly as much health as a wizard that got knocked out once.  Not that my monk gets knocked out every fight, because that would be sort of a nuisance.  Usually its my caster health pools that decide my rest usage.

Edited April 16, 2015 by nemesis205bw

[Climhazzard]

Monk with 12 consititution.  1247 - (219x5) = 219

 

Wizard with 12 constitution 446 - (164x1.5)=200

 

A wizard that has been knocked out one time and then had their endurance reduced to 50%, has less total health than a monk that has been knocked out 5 times.  If a "health pool" on any of my characters is lower than their total endurance I rest.  Do you think it's more likely this is determined by the character  that has to lose 1095 health for this to be the case, or the character that has to lose 282 health?

[nemesis205bw]

Monk with 12 consititution.  1247 - (219x5) = 219

 

Wizard with 12 constitution 446 - (164x1.5)=200

 

A wizard that has been knocked out one time and then had their endurance reduced to 50%, has less total health than a monk that has been knocked out 5 times.  If a "health pool" on any of my characters is lower than their total endurance I rest.  Do you think it's more likely this is determined by the character  that has to lose 1095 health for this to be the case, or the character that has to lose 282 health?

So you are trying to tell me that you rest when your health is still on 66 or 50%? Dont be pathetic please. Why dont you rest when wizard is at full health then? The number is lower then monk total health so in your logic you should rest...

Edited April 16, 2015 by nemesis205bw

[Climhazzard]

 

Monk with 12 consititution.  1247 - (219x5) = 219

 

Wizard with 12 constitution 446 - (164x1.5)=200

 

A wizard that has been knocked out one time and then had their endurance reduced to 50%, has less total health than a monk that has been knocked out 5 times.  If a "health pool" on any of my characters is lower than their total endurance I rest.  Do you think it's more likely this is determined by the character  that has to lose 1095 health for this to be the case, or the character that has to lose 282 health?

So you are trying to tell me that you rest when your health is still on 66 or 50%? Dont be pathetic please. Why dont you rest when wizard is at full health then? Then number is lower then monk total health so in your theory you should rest...

 

 

 

If you really want to use percentages, a wizards total health remaining is lower than his total endurance when he hits 32% of his total health.  A monks total health remaining is lower than his endurance when he hits 17% of his total health.  Unless my monk gets knocked out every single fight I come across, I'm much more likely to end up resting when my wizard hits 32% of his total health, because my monk has to lose 1095 health for this to be the case, but my wizard only has to lose 282.

Edited April 16, 2015 by Climhazzard

[nemesis205bw]

Of course monk has more health and endurance then wizard... So what? Wizard shouldnt take any damage in the first place and you make your monk getting hit intentionally and yet you claim that you have to rest because of that poor wizard. You do it wrong.

[Climhazzard]

Yeah, I do hit him intentionally, it's something like 25-50 damage per battle, doesn't really add up that fast.  For the characters I use, Eder's health pretty much never goes down once I got him all geared up, Kana's health goes down at about the same rate as my monk since i'm not casting spells at him...  Grieving mother, Durance, and Aloth all lose health at about seemingly the same rate, though by the numbers Aloth should be the first to force a rest.  I'm human, so my strategies aren't really perfect, and a mistake tends to damage the health of a caster a lot more than the health of my monk, so yeah, it's usually poor Aloth who determines if I have to rest or not.  If I know a big battle is ahead, and I've used up a lot of per/rest spells, I'll rest before it regardless of my health totals.

 

Anyways, seems like the point got lost in the pointless arguing, going to have to bow out of this thread for now.

Edited April 16, 2015 by Climhazzard

[voad1]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Any weapon with elemental enchant does the job better...

Even if this were true, it fails to factor in that Torment's Reach spam = ridiculous amounts of damage. Any monk can easily do this.

So +50% dmg per hit is ridiculous amount of damage?

+50% dmg per hit is on par with a crit, so yes, it is ridiculous amounts of damage when you have a class "critting" every half a second.

Lol rogue has as much with normal attacks and doesnt require to get hit... Actually its more because rogue bonus apply before armor and monks after.

 

Barb has +50% dps just from bloodlust and blooded. When you add frenzy it becomes 1.25*1.2*1.33*1.18=135% bonus dps. When you add +20% from unbugged OSA it is now 182% bonus. If you add +25% weapon enchant then barb will have 253% bonus dps!!! There are also enchants with 20% bonus attack speed so it gives us total 324% bonus dps!!! How can you compare your 50% (which is exaggeration because you cant spam it whole fight on every aa) to barbs 324%? And dont forget that barb has also abilities which boost that damage even more like barbarian blow.

 

And yes, barb will crit much more often because of how easy it is to apply weakened stance which translates to +20 acc for barb and another +10 from sickened (threatening presence) which gives barb 25 accuracy advantage over monk.

About threatening presence. The majority of creature in game have over 10 fortitude vs accuracy. And sickened according to in game description only lowers fortitude by 10.

 

Threatening presence is the only barb ability that lowers fortitude. So with threatening presence and brute force you are still attacking vs deflection the majority of the time. Not sure vs kith enemies since they dont appear in beastiary. Also there are plenty creatures with + 20 more fort than deflect. It would only help greatly vs shades. Which have much higher deflection than fortitude.

 

This is all from in game descriptions Btw. I think those 2 abilities are a waste. Unless of course the in game descriptions are way off.

Edited April 16, 2015 by voad1

[nemesis205bw]

 

 

 

 

 

Any weapon with elemental enchant does the job better...

Even if this were true, it fails to factor in that Torment's Reach spam = ridiculous amounts of damage. Any monk can easily do this.

So +50% dmg per hit is ridiculous amount of damage?

+50% dmg per hit is on par with a crit, so yes, it is ridiculous amounts of damage when you have a class "critting" every half a second.

Lol rogue has as much with normal attacks and doesnt require to get hit... Actually its more because rogue bonus apply before armor and monks after.

 

Barb has +50% dps just from bloodlust and blooded. When you add frenzy it becomes 1.25*1.2*1.33*1.18=135% bonus dps. When you add +20% from unbugged OSA it is now 182% bonus. If you add +25% weapon enchant then barb will have 253% bonus dps!!! There are also enchants with 20% bonus attack speed so it gives us total 324% bonus dps!!! How can you compare your 50% (which is exaggeration because you cant spam it whole fight on every aa) to barbs 324%? And dont forget that barb has also abilities which boost that damage even more like barbarian blow.

 

And yes, barb will crit much more often because of how easy it is to apply weakened stance which translates to +20 acc for barb and another +10 from sickened (threatening presence) which gives barb 25 accuracy advantage over monk.

About threatening presence. The majority of creature in game have over 10 fortitude vs accuracy. And sickened according to in game description only lowers fortitude by 10.

 

Threatening presence is the only barb ability that lowers fortitude. So with threatening presence and brute force you are still attacking vs deflection the majority of the time. Not sure vs kith enemies since they dont appear in beastiary. Also there are plenty creatures with + 20 more fort than deflect. It would only help greatly vs shades. Which have much higher deflection than fortitude.

 

This is all from in game descriptions Btw. I think those 2 abilities are a waste. Unless of course the in game descriptions are way off.

 

I think your brain is way off. GL hitting these annoying shadows/shades early game as monk or 5164541854 other high defletion enemies.

[Enexemander]

The problem is that most enemies have really high fort saves. I took that talent on my barb and then looked through the bestiary and was sad that I took it.

[voad1]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Any weapon with elemental enchant does the job better...

Even if this were true, it fails to factor in that Torment's Reach spam = ridiculous amounts of damage. Any monk can easily do this.

So +50% dmg per hit is ridiculous amount of damage?

+50% dmg per hit is on par with a crit, so yes, it is ridiculous amounts of damage when you have a class "critting" every half a second.

Lol rogue has as much with normal attacks and doesnt require to get hit... Actually its more because rogue bonus apply before armor and monks after.

 

Barb has +50% dps just from bloodlust and blooded. When you add frenzy it becomes 1.25*1.2*1.33*1.18=135% bonus dps. When you add +20% from unbugged OSA it is now 182% bonus. If you add +25% weapon enchant then barb will have 253% bonus dps!!! There are also enchants with 20% bonus attack speed so it gives us total 324% bonus dps!!! How can you compare your 50% (which is exaggeration because you cant spam it whole fight on every aa) to barbs 324%? And dont forget that barb has also abilities which boost that damage even more like barbarian blow.

 

And yes, barb will crit much more often because of how easy it is to apply weakened stance which translates to +20 acc for barb and another +10 from sickened (threatening presence) which gives barb 25 accuracy advantage over monk.

About threatening presence. The majority of creature in game have over 10 fortitude vs accuracy. And sickened according to in game description only lowers fortitude by 10.

 

Threatening presence is the only barb ability that lowers fortitude. So with threatening presence and brute force you are still attacking vs deflection the majority of the time. Not sure vs kith enemies since they dont appear in beastiary. Also there are plenty creatures with + 20 more fort than deflect. It would only help greatly vs shades. Which have much higher deflection than fortitude.

 

This is all from in game descriptions Btw. I think those 2 abilities are a waste. Unless of course the in game descriptions are way off.

 

I think your brain is way off. GL hitting these annoying shadows/shades early game as monk or 5164541854 other high defletion enemies.

 

You don't seem to understand that many high deflection enemies have even higher fortitude. Only a very few would benefit from those abilites. Like shades and shadows. But if you think taking 2 abilities for a small amount of foes is worth it to you then good for you. Sorry this information has hurt your feelings to the point you feel like you need to resort to name calling. Hope you can get over it soon and forgive me for crushing your fragile ego. I am so sorry.

[Adhin]

Yeah I originally was going to take Brute Force, cause... It sounds great, fits the character I was going for. Was extremely disappointed to find out the 'vast' majority of enemies have far more Fortitude then deflection making it a wasted ability. It's one of those things they've stated not wanting to have happen that seems to of happened anyway you know? Don't want any useless abilities, want each ability thats situational to be applicable like... 20% of the time. Brute Force? Applicable about 2% of the time... hmmm... yeah no thanks.

[mahe4]

most kith have about the same fortitude as deflection... and since kith enemies are a majority in this game, those two talents are worth it...

[voad1]

Thank you, that is something I didn't know. Makes those skills much more appealing again.

[Voltron]

I still don't think those skills are worth it. Kith might be your majority of enemies but...they are easiest one to kill. Most troublesome mobs are not kith, perma stun mobs are not kith etc.

 

Take a look at stats of enemies here: http://orcz.com/Category:Pillars_of_Eternity_Cyclopedia_Bestiary_Entries

 

Most have much higher fortitude than deflection.

 

I ask why? Why is this stat so high.... In my barb retalitation solo run I never had problem with kith. Perma stun/range/magic mobs are problems even for retalitation barb.....

[b0rsuk]

One thing you fail to mention when considering Brute Force is that fortitude can be lowered. Too bad Barbarian doesn't have any passive abilities which lower nearby enemies' fortitude by 20 if they fail a will save. If there was such an ability, barbarian would have a twisted way of using Brute Force on enemies low will.

[mahe4]

One thing you fail to mention when considering Brute Force is that fortitude can be lowered. Too bad Barbarian doesn't have any passive abilities which lower nearby enemies' fortitude by 20 if they fail a will save. If there was such an ability, barbarian would have a twisted way of using Brute Force on enemies low will.

to be fair, deflection can also be lowered.

and the enemies you normally struggle with, have about 20 more fortitude than deflection...

 

but that went a lot offtopic...

the question was which is better as DD and accuracy on monk vs barbarian isn't that different...

[b0rsuk]

Fair point. Brute Force seems to be a midget smasher kind of ability. Xaurips, etc.

[voad1]

I am wondering if threatening presence stacks. So say you had a party with 4 to 6 barbs, high int for carnage and increased aoe of threatening presence. If that stacked then you could lower fortitude by 10 points per each barbarian. Lowering fortitude by as much as 60.

 

b0rsuk, threatening presence causes sickness which inflicts -10 fortitude vs will save. Not enough for majority of enemies in beastiary which have 10+ fortitude vs deflection. So most of the time you are still attacking vs deflection instead of fortitude. But it is apparently much better vs kith and also shades. So better than I thought at first. If it were - 20 to fortitude it would be wayyy better though.

[Dongom]

monk, gotta constantly get hit to do less overall damage than rogue/barb....and fists go out of style fast.

 

sounds awesome. by awesome I mean ****ty.

[Voltron]

Gotta say that: on 1v1 Monk is better, but not by much margin. Barbarian on single target can only Frenzy (+4 Might or +6 upgraded) Blooded (50% endurance) 25% damage and...thats it. For all rest his super abilities he need at least two enemies. Monk on 1v1 can get I think about 50% more damage...

 

But then again, Cipher can get 40% perma more damage while perma paralyze target in 1v1 fight.

 

But now- the questions is: how much in this game you fight 1v1. Early on, becasue you can't take more. But once you get at least one retalitation item- barbarian just walks through biggest, hardest packs of mobs in game, being perma stun or not, they just vaporize.

 

Also HUGE plus for Barbarian is Defiance. Best self-heal skill in game and is 1 per fight to use.

 

Monk might be good but if you are looking for best 1v1 class I think Cipher/Rouge will do better. And if you are looking for AOE  group nuker (90% of game)- Barbarian is the ultimate class for it.

 

 

 

I am wondering if threatening presence stacks. So say you had a party with 4 to 6 barbs, high int for carnage and increased aoe of threatening presence. If that stacked then you could lower fortitude by 10 points per each barbarian. Lowering fortitude by as much as 60.

 

b0rsuk, threatening presence causes sickness which inflicts -10 fortitude vs will save. Not enough for majority of enemies in beastiary which have 10+ fortitude vs deflection. So most of the time you are still attacking vs deflection instead of fortitude. But it is apparently much better vs kith and also shades. So better than I thought at first. If it were - 20 to fortitude it would be wayyy better though.

 

You are much better just taking Accurate Carnage/Greater Frenzy/thick skinned/Dual Weapon/2x Weapon Group Focus (for more Accuracy wit more weapons)/Deflection talents/Some active skills etc. Brute Force and TP are both useless skills right now.

 

Good thing about barb is you need only: OSA, Blooded, Defiance and Stalwark Defiance for build to work. Everything else- you can choose whatever you like the most .

Edited April 16, 2015 by Voltron

[Longknife]

monk, gotta constantly get hit to do less overall damage than rogue/barb....and fists go out of style fast.

 

sounds awesome. by awesome I mean ****ty.

 

 

Since when is it less damage?

 

If we're talking vs. a large group and vs. Barb? Perhaps, but I think that's balanced that Barb is ideal for the groups and Monk vs. the fewer, singular targets.

 

As for less damage than Rogue? Torment's Reach = Guarenteed crit. A crit is 50% additional damage, Torment's Reach is 50% crush damage. If you get a Monk with multiple wounds, you can "crit" every half second. It's very hard to outdo that. Rogue matches that damage for as long as an ailment like Blinding Strike is up, but loses out once that advantage is gone. Monk on the other hand can save up and utilize it's extra damage whenever it pleases.

[Voltron]

 

monk, gotta constantly get hit to do less overall damage than rogue/barb....and fists go out of style fast.

 

sounds awesome. by awesome I mean ****ty.

 

 

Since when is it less damage?

 

If we're talking vs. a large group and vs. Barb? Perhaps, but I think that's balanced that Barb is ideal for the groups and Monk vs. the fewer, singular targets.

 

As for less damage than Rogue? Torment's Reach = Guarenteed crit. A crit is 50% additional damage, Torment's Reach is 50% crush damage. If you get a Monk with multiple wounds, you can "crit" every half second. It's very hard to outdo that. Rogue matches that damage for as long as an ailment like Blinding Strike is up, but loses out once that advantage is gone. Monk on the other hand can save up and utilize it's extra damage whenever it pleases.

 

 

Sorry, but if there are AT LEAST 2 enemies OSA plus Carnage plus Retalitation will out DPS monk in first few hits from enemies- it goes like-> (enemy) Hit, hit, hit, hit (2x per enemy and lets say you hit one if them ONCE of them and you have ONE retalitaion item): you see damage to enemies 30-50, 30-50, 30-50, 30-50, 30-50, 30-50, 30-50, 30-50 and 20-40, 20-40 (your one hit plus Carnage proc), even if half of those won't hit (but they do most time) the DPS of barb is insane. And you can use Animancer boots to it if you want and just insta-kill ANY ENEMY group in game or 2 enemies.

 

Monk is better in 1v1. But when at least 2v1 barb out DPS him, simple becasue of Carnage: EVERY hit proc two times.

Edited April 16, 2015 by Voltron

[mahe4]

 

monk, gotta constantly get hit to do less overall damage than rogue/barb....and fists go out of style fast.

 

sounds awesome. by awesome I mean ****ty.

 

 

Since when is it less damage?

 

If we're talking vs. a large group and vs. Barb? Perhaps, but I think that's balanced that Barb is ideal for the groups and Monk vs. the fewer, singular targets.

 

As for less damage than Rogue? Torment's Reach = Guarenteed crit. A crit is 50% additional damage, Torment's Reach is 50% crush damage. If you get a Monk with multiple wounds, you can "crit" every half second. It's very hard to outdo that. Rogue matches that damage for as long as an ailment like Blinding Strike is up, but loses out once that advantage is gone. Monk on the other hand can save up and utilize it's extra damage whenever it pleases.

 

oh please... it was already shown to you, that you half as second crit thing is total garbage...

you can do an attack every 0.7 seconds was it i think, and that is with fists which are just suboptimal...

rogues can do 1.4 times damage just with sneak attacks and they don't need to slowly die in the process...

 

you are clearly overexaggerating, because you fanboy this class so much.

would be nice if you could come back down to reality and have a sincere discussion instead of preaching your non-factual opinion...